The Debate on Free College for America

[Infected Mushroom]

Which are entirely subjective.

I kind of hate the idea that "quality of life" is quantifiable in the first place, but especially when you're comparing two developed countries.

It's totally quantifiable.

For example, if you have to go to the hospital in Sweden and you don't have health insurance... well, that's not a thing that happens, because everyone has health insurance because it's considered a right and all of your costs will be covered. Meanwhile in the US, if you have to go to the hospital and you don't have health insurance you can either let the problem fester and possibly die because you can't afford treatment, or wish you were dead because you went to the hospital and saw your medical bill which can easily cost more than a house.

Which system seems better?

But you’ve been paying for the Swedish “free” healthcare up to that point every year in taxes (and thereafter). When all those years of mandatory taxes add up, it should add up to the house cost no?

Over an entire life in Sweden, your taxes will add up probably making it even more expensive then had you lived in America

In America you only pay 1-x times when you do need to use the system.

But in Sweden, you’re 100 percent always paying for it every year all the time continuously... even if you barely use the system.

It’s strange to call the Swedish healthcare “free”

You pay based on use in America (which you can control). In Sweden you’re forced to always pay every year for parts of everyone’s costs.

[New haven america]

It's totally quantifiable.

For example, if you have to go to the hospital in Sweden and you don't have health insurance... well, that's not a thing that happens, because everyone has health insurance because it's considered a right and all of your costs will be covered. Meanwhile in the US, if you have to go to the hospital and you don't have health insurance you can either let the problem fester and possibly die because you can't afford treatment, or wish you were dead because you went to the hospital and saw your medical bill which can easily cost more than a house.

Which system seems better?

1.Why don't you just buy insurance, 2.or go to a charity. 3.Don't make society pay for your mistake to not buy insurance.

1. Maybe because that shit's expensive? "Hey, why don't you just not be poor?" Great insight, truly revolutionary.
2. Or we could just have a healthcare system that helps everyone, so we wouldn't need charities to pay for medical bills.
3. Or we could join together and act as, y'know, a community and help each other out in their times of need. I help you, you help me, etc...

[New haven america]

It's totally quantifiable.

For example, if you have to go to the hospital in Sweden and you don't have health insurance... well, that's not a thing that happens, because everyone has health insurance because it's considered a right and all of your costs will be covered. Meanwhile in the US, if you have to go to the hospital and you don't have health insurance you can either let the problem fester and possibly die because you can't afford treatment, or wish you were dead because you went to the hospital and saw your medical bill which can easily cost more than a house.

Which system seems better?

But you’ve been paying for the Swedish “free” healthcare up to that point every year in taxes (and thereafter). When all those years of mandatory taxes add up, it should add up to the house cost no?

Cost of a house per 1 visit vs. Cost of a house over 80+ years

I would assume you'd know which deal is better, but you're you, so I'm just gonna tell you that the best option is the 2nd deal.

Also, you come from a country with UHC. You don't understand what medical debt truly is and how people would prefer to die rather than go to the hospital.

[Infected Mushroom]

But you’ve been paying for the Swedish “free” healthcare up to that point every year in taxes (and thereafter). When all those years of mandatory taxes add up, it should add up to the house cost no?

Cost of a house per 1 visit vs. Cost of a house over 80+ years

I would assume you'd know which deal is better, but you're you, so I'm just gonna tell you that the best option is the 2nd deal.

Also, you come from a country with UHC. You don't understand what medical debt truly is and how people would prefer to die rather than go to the hospital.

But it’s not 1 house over 80 years, it’s more like 5 houses over 80 years no?

[New haven america]

Cost of a house per 1 visit vs. Cost of a house over 80+ years

I would assume you'd know which deal is better, but you're you, so I'm just gonna tell you that the best option is the 2nd deal.

Also, you come from a country with UHC. You don't understand what medical debt truly is and how people would prefer to die rather than go to the hospital.

But it’s not 1 house over 80 years, it’s more like 5 houses over 80 years no?

IDK, I don't live in a country with UHC. I also haven't been to the hospital or gotten a check-up in 3 years because I don't have health insurance.

That's still better than the US' system, btw.

[Infected Mushroom]

But it’s not 1 house over 80 years, it’s more like 5 houses over 80 years no?

IDK, I don't live in a country with UHC.

That's still better than the US' system, btw.

But how can it be if your forced to pay for lots of things all the time that you’re not using except for the emergencies?

Are you sure it’s good value? Doesn’t it bother you that your being forced to pay it and some bureaucrat just tells you “trust me, it’s good value, you couldn’t possibly responsibly manage your own costs otherwise?”

[New haven america]

IDK, I don't live in a country with UHC.

That's still better than the US' system, btw.

1. But how can it be if your forced to pay for lots of things all the time that you’re not using except for the emergencies?

2.Are you sure it’s good value? 3.Doesn’t it bother you that your being forced to pay it and some bureaucrat just tells you “trust me, it’s good value, you couldn’t possibly responsibly manage your own costs otherwise?”

1. Because then you can help others in your community not have to worry about health insurance. Or relating back to the topic, help them get a better education and improve your country.
2. Yes
3. Nope. Mainly because I haven't been to the hospital or gotten a checkup in over 3 years due to not being able to afford insurance. Meanwhile, I'm assuming you've been to the hospital at least once within the past year or so?

[Infected Mushroom]

1. But how can it be if your forced to pay for lots of things all the time that you’re not using except for the emergencies?

2.Are you sure it’s good value? 3.Doesn’t it bother you that your being forced to pay it and some bureaucrat just tells you “trust me, it’s good value, you couldn’t possibly responsibly manage your own costs otherwise?”

1. Because then you can help others in your community not have to worry about health insurance. Or relating back to the topic, help them get a better education and improve your country.
2. Yes
3. Nope. Mainly because I haven't been to the hospital or gotten a checkup in over 3 years due to not being able to afford insurance. Meanwhile, I'm assuming you've been to the hospital at least once within the past year or so?

OH...

Ok

This makes sense to me now. Please do carry on. (Leaves)

[Bombadil]

It's totally quantifiable.

For example, if you have to go to the hospital in Sweden and you don't have health insurance... well, that's not a thing that happens, because everyone has health insurance because it's considered a right and all of your costs will be covered. Meanwhile in the US, if you have to go to the hospital and you don't have health insurance you can either let the problem fester and possibly die because you can't afford treatment, or wish you were dead because you went to the hospital and saw your medical bill which can easily cost more than a house.

Which system seems better?

But you’ve been paying for the Swedish “free” healthcare up to that point every year in taxes (and thereafter). When all those years of mandatory taxes add up, it should add up to the house cost no?

Over an entire life in Sweden, your taxes will add up probably making it even more expensive then had you lived in America

In America you only pay 1-x times when you do need to use the system.

But in Sweden, you’re 100 percent always paying for it every year all the time continuously... even if you barely use the system.

It’s strange to call the Swedish healthcare “free”

You pay based on use in America (which you can control). In Sweden you’re forced to always pay every year for parts of everyone’s costs.

It's quite a bit more complicated.. Sweden has a higher home ownership than the US for one at 70.6% compared to the US at 64.5%. The US has a lot more business taxes.. essentially Sweden derives most of its tax income from two sources, income and VAT.. and it's all fairly flat.

I'm not advocating one system over another here, just saying that if buying a house is the issue then Sweden's doing fine it seems, and it's probably little related to tax.

[New haven america]

But you’ve been paying for the Swedish “free” healthcare up to that point every year in taxes (and thereafter). When all those years of mandatory taxes add up, it should add up to the house cost no?

Over an entire life in Sweden, your taxes will add up probably making it even more expensive then had you lived in America

In America you only pay 1-x times when you do need to use the system.

But in Sweden, you’re 100 percent always paying for it every year all the time continuously... even if you barely use the system.

It’s strange to call the Swedish healthcare “free”

You pay based on use in America (which you can control). In Sweden you’re forced to always pay every year for parts of everyone’s costs.

It's quite a bit more complicated.. Sweden has a higher home ownership than the US for one at 70.6% compared to the US at 64.5%. The US has a lot more business taxes.. essentially Sweden derives most of its tax income from two sources, income and VAT.. and it's all fairly flat.

I'm not advocating one system over another here, just saying that if buying a house is the issue then Sweden's doing fine it seems, and it's probably little related to tax.

Considering we're talking about the quantifiability of how developed a country is, yeah, that standard is totally usable.

[New haven america]

1. Because then you can help others in your community not have to worry about health insurance. Or relating back to the topic, help them get a better education and improve your country.
2. Yes
3. Nope. Mainly because I haven't been to the hospital or gotten a checkup in over 3 years due to not being able to afford insurance. Meanwhile, I'm assuming you've been to the hospital at least once within the past year or so?

OH...

Ok

This makes sense to me now. Please do carry on. (Leaves)

You're avoiding the question. Have you been able to go to the hospital at least once over the past year?

[Infected Mushroom]

OH...

Ok

This makes sense to me now. Please do carry on. (Leaves)

You're avoiding the question. Have you been able to go to the hospital at least once over the past year?

Yes

[New haven america]

You're avoiding the question. Have you been able to go to the hospital at least once over the past year?

Yes

And yet you complain about having to pay taxes for said UHC system, even though we have evidence of it directly helping you.

Or relating to the thread yet again. Helping get more people into institutions of higher learning (Trade schools, college, university, etc...) for little cost to free (Paid by taxes) can help the nation as a whole, including helping you as well as you're a part of that nation or community. Whether it be directly or indirectly, the system is helping you.

[Infected Mushroom]

Yes

And yet you complain about having to pay taxes for said UHC system, even though we have evidence of it directly helping you.

Or relating to the thread yet again. Helping get more people into institutions of higher learning (Trade schools, college, university, etc...) for little cost to free (Paid by taxes) can help the nation as a whole, including helping you as well as you're a part of that nation or community. Whether it be directly or indirectly, the system is helping you.

But I could have paid for it on my own I think

[New haven america]

And yet you complain about having to pay taxes for said UHC system, even though we have evidence of it directly helping you.

Or relating to the thread yet again. Helping get more people into institutions of higher learning (Trade schools, college, university, etc...) for little cost to free (Paid by taxes) can help the nation as a whole, including helping you as well as you're a part of that nation or community. Whether it be directly or indirectly, the system is helping you.

But I could have paid for it on my own I think

You have $50-150k just lying around?

[Galloism]

It's totally quantifiable.

For example, if you have to go to the hospital in Sweden and you don't have health insurance... well, that's not a thing that happens, because everyone has health insurance because it's considered a right and all of your costs will be covered. Meanwhile in the US, if you have to go to the hospital and you don't have health insurance you can either let the problem fester and possibly die because you can't afford treatment, or wish you were dead because you went to the hospital and saw your medical bill which can easily cost more than a house.

Which system seems better?

But you’ve been paying for the Swedish “free” healthcare up to that point every year in taxes (and thereafter). When all those years of mandatory taxes add up, it should add up to the house cost no?

Over an entire life in Sweden, your taxes will add up probably making it even more expensive then had you lived in America

In America you only pay 1-x times when you do need to use the system.

But in Sweden, you’re 100 percent always paying for it every year all the time continuously... even if you barely use the system.

It’s strange to call the Swedish healthcare “free”

You pay based on use in America (which you can control). In Sweden you’re forced to always pay every year for parts of everyone’s costs.

I mean, this is basically the premise of every kind of insurance ever. You pay a little continuously to avoid paying big if something goes wrong.

[Infected Mushroom]

But I could have paid for it on my own I think

You have $50-150k just lying around?

Aye

[Infected Mushroom]

But you’ve been paying for the Swedish “free” healthcare up to that point every year in taxes (and thereafter). When all those years of mandatory taxes add up, it should add up to the house cost no?

Over an entire life in Sweden, your taxes will add up probably making it even more expensive then had you lived in America

In America you only pay 1-x times when you do need to use the system.

But in Sweden, you’re 100 percent always paying for it every year all the time continuously... even if you barely use the system.

It’s strange to call the Swedish healthcare “free”

You pay based on use in America (which you can control). In Sweden you’re forced to always pay every year for parts of everyone’s costs.

I mean, this is basically the premise of every kind of insurance ever. You pay a little continuously to avoid paying big if something goes wrong.

But then you lose if nothing ever goes wrong (or not enough goes wrong)?

[Galloism]

I mean, this is basically the premise of every kind of insurance ever. You pay a little continuously to avoid paying big if something goes wrong.

But then you lose if nothing ever goes wrong (or not enough goes wrong)?

Insurance is a bet against yourself, yes. Life insurance especially so.

But another way of looking at it is hedging your bets.

[Bombadil]

It's quite a bit more complicated.. Sweden has a higher home ownership than the US for one at 70.6% compared to the US at 64.5%. The US has a lot more business taxes.. essentially Sweden derives most of its tax income from two sources, income and VAT.. and it's all fairly flat.

I'm not advocating one system over another here, just saying that if buying a house is the issue then Sweden's doing fine it seems, and it's probably little related to tax.

Considering we're talking about the quantifiability of how developed a country is, yeah, that standard is totally usable.

Well we're not, we're asking if America should provide free college education..

PPP when managed well are probably the solution, look at HK healthcare for example.. a degree of private competition on clear metrics with public government accountability to ensure strict oversight.

Anyway, as I've said I feel the fundamental role of government is to provide equal access to strong healthcare and education, if I was being Chinese about it I'd call it the 4 Protects.

Protect through health
Protect through education
Protect through infrastructure
Protect through defence

A lot of other issues would take care of themselves.

[Infected Mushroom]

But then you lose if nothing ever goes wrong (or not enough goes wrong)?

Insurance is a bet against yourself, yes. Life insurance especially so.

But another way of looking at it is hedging your bets.

I don’t like betting against myself

I feel this may bring bad luck...

[Galloism]

Insurance is a bet against yourself, yes. Life insurance especially so.

But another way of looking at it is hedging your bets.

I don’t like betting against myself

I feel this may bring bad luck...

Do you have homeowner’s insurance?

[Krasny-Volny]

If college is going to be free, make trade school free as well for the rest of us.

[Oil exporting People]

Yes free college would massively help our country increase our professional labor force.

Except it won't d0 that at all and is insanely stupid idea. Ask England.

[Infected Mushroom]

I don’t like betting against myself

I feel this may bring bad luck...

Do you have homeowner’s insurance?

I don’t own any land