Pride Before Prejudice?

[Costa Fierro]

Auckland's Pride Parade has lost another supporter, with media company NZME ending its sponsorship of the event.

There is concern for the future of the annual February event after a series of supporters ended their association with the parade after organisers refused to let police officers march in uniform.

Today NZME, which publishes the NZ Herald and owns a radio network including Newstalk ZB and ZM, confirmed it was withdrawing as a sponsor.

The head of NZME's diversity committee, Kylie Telford, said: "NZME has made the decision to remove its sponsorship of the Auckland Pride Parade following the board's decision not to let New Zealand Police walk the parade in uniform.

"As an organisation we wholeheartedly support inclusivity, acceptance and celebration of the LGBTQ+ community, and do not agree with the board's exclusion in this way.

"We will continue our support of the Rainbow Community through different avenues."

Yesterday Vodafone New Zealand's Rainbow Whānau announced it would pull out of the Pride Parade down Ponsonby Rd on February 16 next year over the ban on police in uniform.

The New Zealand Defence Force has also axed its attendance while the Rainbow New Zealand Charitable Trust has pulled its funding in response to the ban.

Source.

Basically what has happened is that the board in charge of Auckland's Pride Parade has banned police officers from wearing their uniforms when marching in the parade, being the only parade board to do so. The board claims that it is because the uniform the police represents the oppression GBT people faced in New Zealand prior to the gradual shift in attitudes and the legalisation of homosexuality in 1986. However, this decision has been met with a backlash, with the New Zealand Defence Force pulling out of the parade, and the parade losing funding from three additional sponsors. The reasons for their withdrawl from the parade are that the exclusion of uniformed officers in the parade is against the very concept of inclusivity and pride that the parade represents. Even the founders of the parade have said uniformed police should be included.

And I agree with them. The board has been hijacked by a far-left extremist group called PAPA, which stands for "Pride Against Prisons Aotearoa", who want to abolish the police, prisons, and the justice system. In hijacking the board, PAPA have basically shot themselves in the foot and called into question the existence of Auckland's pride parade. Having uniformed police march in the parade is an important part of reconciliation, and the police have made massive improvements in how they deal with LGBT people, only to be spat on by a bunch of idiotic millennial communists.

So, what do we think, NSG? Is the board right in banning uniformed police from marching? Are the defence forces and private sponsors right in pulling funding?

[The National Salvation Front for Russia]

The companies pulling funding are completely in the right here. They have every right to withdraw funds if they feel that the Pride is unrepresentative or unfair.

[Toaslandia]

Their parade is literally for Pride, yet they ban police from marching in uniform? Those sponsors are right to pull out.

[Teachian]

Unless the individuals marching (or the police themselves) had a real (current) issue with harassing, suppressing and/or discriminating against the people the parade is celebrating, there’s absolutely no reason to exclude them.

Since the OP says that the exclusion is based on events before and around 1986, I can’t see any reason to support this. That isn’t “you can’t pretend to be with us when you’re still hurting our community,” it’s “fuck you, we don’t like you.” I think the groups that pulled out are entirely in the right for what they did. There’s probably so many people who just wanted to celebrate the original message of the parade, only to be seeing what feels like a rather petty get-back.

Feel free to call me out if I’m wrong about any of that, but at the moment this just feels like something good getting caught up in the regular human drama.

[Atheris]

nah man, pride and prejudice.

all seriousness, though, this was a good move on the board's part. it's not very prideful if you ban the nz police officers from marching.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

And I agree with them. The board has been hijacked by a far-left extremist group called PAPA, which stands for "Pride Against Prisons Aotearoa", who want to abolish the police, prisons, and the justice system. In hijacking the board, PAPA have basically shot themselves in the foot and called into question the existence of Auckland's pride parade. Having uniformed police march in the parade is an important part of reconciliation, and the police have made massive improvements in how they deal with LGBT people, only to be spat on by a bunch of idiotic millennial communists.

So, what do we think, NSG? Is the board right in banning uniformed police from marching? Are the defence forces and private sponsors right in pulling funding?

I agree with you. The board is defiantly in the wrong, and numerous relations no doubt have been permanently ruined by the wannabe bolsheviks on the board. It's is also a pretty stupid idea to abolish police, the justice system, and prisons, but apparently some fools still want to do it.

[Ebony Fang Industries]

And I agree with them. The board has been hijacked by a far-left extremist group called PAPA, which stands for "Pride Against Prisons Aotearoa", who want to abolish the police, prisons, and the justice system. In hijacking the board, PAPA have basically shot themselves in the foot and called into question the existence of Auckland's pride parade. Having uniformed police march in the parade is an important part of reconciliation, and the police have made massive improvements in how they deal with LGBT people, only to be spat on by a bunch of idiotic millennial communists.

So, what do we think, NSG? Is the board right in banning uniformed police from marching? Are the defence forces and private sponsors right in pulling funding?

I agree with you. The board is defiantly in the wrong, and numerous relations no doubt have been permanently ruined by the wannabe bolsheviks on the board. It's is also a pretty stupid idea to abolish police, the justice system, and prisons, but apparently some fools still want to do it.

That reminds me of the 'Should Prisons Be Abolished?' thread. And since I don't want to get this thread off topic, those companies and sponsors did the right thing pulling out of the Pride March, but it's too bad that a few have to ruin what could help many.

[Yohannes]

Coming from New Zealand, I just want to say that the NZ Police is def not the same as over the US. Even in rural areas (from South Island here) many officers are selected from diverse communities (e.g. Maori, Islanders, Asians, LGBT). Officers here are also encouraged to not use deadly force unless necessary (e.g. lethal weapons). Very different to the US. Officers here are also very accommodating towards minority offenders (i.e. majority Maori and Pacific Islanders). Again, very different to the US

Good on NZME, Vodafone, etc. for withdrawing their sponsorship. I'm pro-diversity and inclusivity myself, but I'm a wee bit disappointed with all these far-left "Condemn all police officers because they are bad people" and they are (at least here in NZ) starting to gain popularity among ignorant middle class first/second year university students (who have never worked all their lives and can afford going to uni without having to work to fund their study). NZ is a very generous country, but I feel that some people here are trying to import the whole "Black Lives Matter" movement and it's very embarrassing for some of us to see because all they will do is to turn the middle/centre voters/members of society against the genuinely good progressive cause

[Toaslandia]

Coming from New Zealand, I just want to say that the NZ Police is def not the same as over the US. Even in rural areas (from South Island here) many officers are selected from diverse communities (e.g. Maori, Islanders, Asians, LGBT). Officers here are also encouraged to not use deadly force unless necessary (e.g. lethal weapons). Very different to the US. Officers here are also very accommodating towards minority offenders (i.e. majority Maori and Pacific Islanders). Again, very different to the US

Good on NZME, Vodafone, etc. for withdrawing their sponsorship. I'm pro-diversity and inclusivity myself, but I'm a wee bit disappointed with all these far-left "Condemn all police officers because they are bad people" and they are (at least here in NZ) starting to gain popularity among ignorant middle class first/second year university students (who have never worked all their lives and can afford going to uni without having to work to fund their study). NZ is a very generous country, but I feel that some people here are trying to import the whole "Black Lives Matter" movement and it's very embarrassing for some of us to see because all they will do is to turn the middle/centre voters/members of society against the genuinely good progressive cause

While I consider myself far-left, I agree with you. I feel like NZ's version of far-left is much more radical then the one I believe in.

[Costa Fierro]

Coming from New Zealand, I just want to say that the NZ Police is def not the same as over the US. Even in rural areas (from South Island here) many officers are selected from diverse communities (e.g. Maori, Islanders, Asians, LGBT). Officers here are also encouraged to not use deadly force unless necessary (e.g. lethal weapons). Very different to the US. Officers here are also very accommodating towards minority offenders (i.e. majority Maori and Pacific Islanders). Again, very different to the US

Good on NZME, Vodafone, etc. for withdrawing their sponsorship. I'm pro-diversity and inclusivity myself, but I'm a wee bit disappointed with all these far-left "Condemn all police officers because they are bad people" and they are (at least here in NZ) starting to gain popularity among ignorant middle class first/second year university students (who have never worked all their lives and can afford going to uni without having to work to fund their study). NZ is a very generous country, but I feel that some people here are trying to import the whole "Black Lives Matter" movement and it's very embarrassing for some of us to see because all they will do is to turn the middle/centre voters/members of society against the genuinely good progressive cause

While I consider myself far-left, I agree with you. I feel like NZ's version of far-left is much more radical then the one I believe in.

Nah, they've more or less adopted the same sort of "social justice" race-based politics that Americans of the same thread have. It's taken a little bit to get here, these things usually do.

[The Two Jerseys]

Strange, usually it's the police banning police officers from marching in uniform...

[Liriena]

organisers refused to let police officers march in uniform.

I don't know anything about the state of law enforcement in Auckland, but I definitely understand and agree to some extent with the general notion that, if we think of LGBT+ people as an underclass, police can never be considered an ally, but rather a tool of the dominant classes to repress the underclasses through the enforcement of unjust laws.

So... yeah, not particularly angry about that decision. And pride parades losing corporate sponsors is, arguably, a good thing, if you are anti-capitalist or just vaguely anti-corporate, what with the concerns over the commercialization of pride.

[Liriena]

"Condemn all police officers because they are bad people"

This is a bit strawmanish. Far left opposition to police is generally not predicated on treating every single police officer on the face of the earth as a fundamentally horrible individual (even if the most popular slogan for that opposition is ACAB). Ultimately, that opposition is rooted on a more systemic, structural vision than "police is mean".

[Yohannes]

"Condemn all police officers because they are bad people"

This is a bit strawmanish. Far left opposition to police is generally not predicated on treating every single police officer on the face of the earth as a fundamentally horrible individual (even if the most popular slogan for that opposition is ACAB). Ultimately, that opposition is rooted on a more systemic, structural vision than "police is mean".

Hi, my apologies if this is just a mistake (and you're not directing that at me) - are you trying to say that I was being strawmanish?

[LiberNovusAmericae]

organisers refused to let police officers march in uniform.

I don't know anything about the state of law enforcement in Auckland, but I definitely understand and agree to some extent with the general notion that, if we think of LGBT+ people as an underclass, police can never be considered an ally, but rather a tool of the dominant classes to repress the underclasses through the enforcement of unjust laws.

"They shall be declared still oppressed by definition."

[Dazchan]

I hope this doesn’t bring about the end of the Auckland Pride March.

A similar thing almost happened with Sydney’s Mardi Gras. A group called Pride in Protest attempted to gain enough seats on the Board to push their ideological agenda, which included banning police and certain political parties from the event. Thankfully, their members weren’t elected to the Board.

So... yeah, not particularly angry about that decision. And pride parades losing corporate sponsors is, arguably, a good thing, if you are anti-capitalist or just vaguely anti-corporate, what with the concerns over the commercialization of pride.

Losing corporate sponsors is only a good thing if you have no idea how much it costs to run such an event.

[Liriena]

This is a bit strawmanish. Far left opposition to police is generally not predicated on treating every single police officer on the face of the earth as a fundamentally horrible individual (even if the most popular slogan for that opposition is ACAB). Ultimately, that opposition is rooted on a more systemic, structural vision than "police is mean".

Hi, my apologies if this is just a mistake (and you're not directing that at me) - are you trying to say that I was being strawmanish?

Yeah, a bit.

[Minzerland II]

I don’t know if it’s the same in New Zealand, but, in Australia, it is strictly prohibited for anyone of the Defense Force (maybe even the State and Federal Police) to wear a uniform to a political event. Is it the same in New Zealand, and, if so, why would they even be there in uniform?

[Benuty]

I hope this doesn’t bring about the end of the Auckland Pride March.

A similar thing almost happened with Sydney’s Mardi Gras. A group called Pride in Protest attempted to gain enough seats on the Board to push their ideological agenda, which included banning police and certain political parties from the event. Thankfully, their members weren’t elected to the Board.

So... yeah, not particularly angry about that decision. And pride parades losing corporate sponsors is, arguably, a good thing, if you are anti-capitalist or just vaguely anti-corporate, what with the concerns over the commercialization of pride.

Losing corporate sponsors is only a good thing if you have no idea how much it costs to run such an event.

Tough shit for them I guess, but they might get leadership a little more sensible next year if there is one.

[Yohannes]

organisers refused to let police officers march in uniform.

I don't know anything about the state of law enforcement in Auckland,

The state of law enforcement in Auckland is bad. The previous National government under John Key (and then after him, Bill English) had cut funding for the police force (because Nats like to cut funding to improve current account balance). As a result there have not been enough officers to cover high crime areas such as South Auckland. Despite this underfunding, however, the NZ police force has continued to intensify its policy to diversify the police force by 2025. There have been multiple ads (social media and TV ads) featuring existing police officers who come from minority background (e.g. women, LGBT, Maori, Pacific Islanders, Asians) so that the NZ police force can better connect with the community they're meant to serve

Again, officers in NZ (not just in Auckland) don't carry lethal weapons (unless required), and there are many restrictions in place (for instance in Wellington, they can't just arrest homeless people etc. there's local government/council laws against that)

I'm a proud progressive but I would never try to accuse our police force as a force of discrimination. Yes, they were before the 1990s (I'm talking about incidents like the very prejudiced questioning of Pacific Island migrants during the Muldoon government but even that was way before 1990). But ever since then they have tried very hard to connect with the community they're meant to serve. They have always fought for the rights of women, LGBT, the indigenous population of Aotearoa New Zealand (Maoris and Pacific Island communities) and immigrant communities

but I definitely understand and agree to some extent with the general notion that, if we think of LGBT+ people as an underclass, police can never be considered an ally, but rather a tool of the dominant classes to repress the underclasses through the enforcement of unjust laws.

I can understand your position too (especially if you're an American, I can see where you're coming from). But I disagree with your position, re: "but rather a tool of the dominant classes to repress the underclasses through the enforcement of unjust laws". As I've said the NZ police force is not like the Americans. We have a very different culture down under here (if you're talking about Australian then... yup, I'll agree Aussies are more like US) but not NZ.

So... yeah, not particularly angry about that decision. And pride parades losing corporate sponsors is, arguably, a good thing, if you are anti-capitalist or just vaguely anti-corporate, what with the concerns over the commercialization of pride.

As a New Zealander and as someone who actually do reside here, I'll have to sadly disagree with your position (though again I can understand where you're coming from - the perspective of a non-NZer). There is a reason why the whole Black Lives Matter (and other such things) has not gained much popularity down here (though people have tried to do just that). A few Maori far-left organisations have tried to import the Black Lives Matter movement down here but so far well hasn't worked and there has been no community and political support for that kind of thing down here (not even the Green Party of Aotearoa - arguably the furthest left a successful NZ political party can get - would support "Black Lives Matter" in NZ. They wouldn't, because we from NZ are proud of our police force and will stand with the girls and boys in Blue

The girls and boys in blue are our friends, not our enemies. They are there to serve the NZ community. I stand with them to condemn the Auckland Pride's prejudice against NZ police force

[Yohannes]

Yeah, a bit.

I see. Thank you for the clarification! I have explained with my previous post. I encourage you to disagree if you feel what I posted (above) was wrong (I tend to have people not wanting to disagree with me when I use this account I don't know why)

[Teachian]

I see. Thank you for the clarification! I have explained with my previous post. I encourage you to disagree if you feel what I posted (above) was wrong (I tend to have people not wanting to disagree with me when I use this account I don't know why)

Alright, going off topic from the thread, but can I point out that is probably the most polite and wholesome response to someone disagreeing/claiming fallacy that I have seen in a long, long time?

Like, someone please give them a star sticker. Or maybe a scratch to sniff one, those are cool too.

[The National Salvation Front for Russia]

Alright, going off topic from the thread, but can I point out that is probably the most polite and wholesome response to someone disagreeing/claiming fallacy that I have seen in a long, long time?

Like, someone please give them a star sticker. Or maybe a scratch to sniff one, those are cool too.

Definitely not. Abstract concepts like "niceness" are a sign of weakness, which we abhor.

Only the strong shall survive.

[Costa Fierro]

I don't know anything about the state of law enforcement in Auckland, but I definitely understand and agree to some extent with the general notion that, if we think of LGBT+ people as an underclass, police can never be considered an ally, but rather a tool of the dominant classes to repress the underclasses through the enforcement of unjust laws.

Except LGBT people are not an underclass, and while they have their issues, the police in New Zealand are among the best in the world when it comes to being parts of the community. I'm not saying they're perfect by any means, but given that attitudes have changed massively since the days when they could legally arrest or beat people men for being gay, and given the effort police have put in in order to repair the relationship between them and LGBT people, having a bunch of people whose sworn declaration is the abolition of the entire justice and law enforcement apparatus using the pride parade as a means of engaging in their vendetta against the police kinda feels like a slap in the face, especially for those who are LGBT who are currently serving in the police. If one is proud to be an LGBT person and proud to be a police officer, shouldn't that pride be there for all to see?

So... yeah, not particularly angry about that decision. And pride parades losing corporate sponsors is, arguably, a good thing, if you are anti-capitalist or just vaguely anti-corporate, what with the concerns over the commercialization of pride.

I think it's somewhat ironic that they would go on about being anti-capitalist once all the funding starts being withdrawn. It's a case of "well we didn't want your money anyway, nyah nyah nyah".

[The Huskar Social Union]

Understand why they pulled out, agree with them.