England has been wronged by the Normans

[Narland]

Did anyone see that he compared the Norman invasion of England to an actual genocide?

The international legal definition of the crime of genocide is found in Articles II and III of the 1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Genocide.

Article II describes two elements of the crime of genocide:
1) the mental element, meaning the "intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such", and
2) the physical element which includes five acts described in sections a, b, c, d and e. A crime must include both elements to be called "genocide."
Article III described five punishable forms of the crime of genocide: genocide; conspiracy, incitement, attempt and complicity.

"Article II: In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

Article III: The following acts shall be punishable:

(a) Genocide;
(b) Conspiracy to commit genocide;
(c) Direct and public incitement to commit genocide;
(d) Attempt to commit genocide;
(e) Complicity in genocide.

The kicker is in whole or in part portions of the definition. Any act of social engineering with negative ramification for the target group by the legal definition of genocide is criminal. Thus the Rural Purge of the late 60s and onward; the marginalization of Rural American culture during the cultural revolution to centralization of policy to urban centers since; and the planned replacing small family run rural businesses of ranches, farms, lumber mills, mines, oil companies and transport businesses by politicians and planners with large multinational corporations that now dominates and strangles out our subsistence arguably qualifies as genocide against the American people of rural culture (who cling to our God, guns and Bible).

The Anglo-Normans are guilty of diminishing the Anglo-Saxons who are in turn guilty of diminishing the Britons who in turn are guilty of diminishing the whomever was there earlier ... etc etc. Every country, nation, tribe, and ethnicity is most likely guilty. According to some theories the whole human race is guilty of genocide against the Cromags and what not. The legal definition of genocide is so untenable that the Allies themselves could conceivable be charged with genocide against the "Aryan" psychopaths who commandeered Germany during the National Socialist takeover which is itself a ludicrous on its face.

Satire is its own reward.

[Tasuirin]

My ancestors are Brythonic, from Alt Clut. Don't talk to me about who are true Britons. If I can accept that history happened the way it happened without complaining, so should you.

[Munkchester]

My ancestors are Brythonic, from Alt Clut

This is an incredibly specific variant on "my great-great-great-grandmother was Irish"

[Tasuirin]

My ancestors are Brythonic, from Alt Clut

This is an incredibly specific variant on "my great-great-great-grandmother was Irish"

Well, I am also a Welshman born in Ireland, but my point is that this boils down to "something that happened nearly a thousand years ago was wrong and I'm going to complain about it". My point is, if anyone is going to complain, it could very well be the Brythonic people who were taken over by the Anglo-Saxons, or even earlier, Pre-IE people on the Isles taken over by the Celts. If we want to complain about history, where do we stop?

[Sefy the Great]

What's OP going to write next for a thread? "the Aztecs were wronged by the Spanish"?

[Xah]

What's OP going to write next for a thread? "the Aztecs were wronged by the Spanish"?

The Neanderthals were wronged by the Homo Sapiens!

[Tasuirin]

What's OP going to write next for a thread? "the Aztecs were wronged by the Spanish"?

The Neanderthals were wronged by the Homo Sapiens!

The dinosaurs were wronged by the giant death asteroid?

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

Did anyone see that he compared the Norman invasion of England to an actual genocide?

The international legal definition of the crime of genocide is found in Articles II and III of the 1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Genocide.

Article II describes two elements of the crime of genocide:
1) the mental element, meaning the "intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such", and
2) the physical element which includes five acts described in sections a, b, c, d and e. A crime must include both elements to be called "genocide."
Article III described five punishable forms of the crime of genocide: genocide; conspiracy, incitement, attempt and complicity.

"Article II: In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

Article III: The following acts shall be punishable:

(a) Genocide;
(b) Conspiracy to commit genocide;
(c) Direct and public incitement to commit genocide;
(d) Attempt to commit genocide;
(e) Complicity in genocide.

The kicker is in whole or in part portions of the definition. Any act of social engineering with negative ramification for the target group by the legal definition of genocide is criminal. Thus the Rural Purge of the late 60s and onward; the marginalization of Rural American culture during the cultural revolution to centralization of policy to urban centers since; and the planned replacing small family run rural businesses of ranches, farms, lumber mills, mines, oil companies and transport businesses by politicians and planners with large multinational corporations that now dominates and strangles out our subsistence arguably qualifies as genocide against the American people of rural culture (who cling to our God, guns and Bible).

The Anglo-Normans are guilty of diminishing the Anglo-Saxons who are in turn guilty of diminishing the Britons who in turn are guilty of diminishing the whomever was there earlier ... etc etc. Every country, nation, tribe, and ethnicity is most likely guilty. According to some theories the whole human race is guilty of genocide against the Cromags and what not. The legal definition of genocide is so untenable that the Allies themselves could conceivable be charged with genocide against the "Aryan" psychopaths who commandeered Germany during the National Socialist takeover which is itself a ludicrous on its face.

Satire is its own reward.

The legal definition definition of genocide is not tenable, no, if you interpret it in the wrong way. If you leave out the extremely important "with intent to destroy", then yeah, genocide is basically everything. But "with intent to destroy" is a central element to the crime of genocide. Of course, along with:

(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

So, what part of what you all mentioned was genocide according to these provisions? They are still used, by the way. They are not useless in the slightest.

[The Vekta-Helghast Empire]

I’m not being funny or anything - but chances are OP, if you’re an Englishman - you’ve probably got Norman blood in there. I’m from the far North East of Scotland and my family only ever came to Britain with the Norman invasion and was prominent in British history all the way until the 1900s. And many big family names are exactly the same. Even if they don’t necessarily know it.

Also I don’t see why Genocide is even being brought up, it’s not like it’s relevant or you can take William of Normandie to The Hague for trial. And it’s not like we didn’t Massacre the Danes, or that the Saxons didn’t massacre those before them. The whole conversation is kinda pointless.

[Sefy the Great]

The Neanderthals were wronged by the Homo Sapiens!

The dinosaurs were wronged by the giant death asteroid?

the Earth was wronged by bacteria!

[Khasamir]

Now, if the battle of Hastings and the Norman invasion cease to be, so does everything later in history related to England? The british empire, the making of America, the creation of the UK, or the EU? The defeat of Nazi Germany, then the Soviet Union?

One can only think...

[Khasamir]

The dinosaurs were wronged by the giant death asteroid?

the Earth was wronged by bacteria!

Water faring life was wronged by sand walkers!

[Indo-Malaysia]

I'm kinda descended from illegitimate children of Northern Norman Barons so... I think it's cool ,


Anglo-Saxon spelling is cooler tho.

There was a rematch of the Battle of Hastings a few weeks ago*

it was mostly a piss up in a pub

[Ostroeuropa]

So some burglars stabbed another burglar, doesn't make the property the first burglars.

GIB EUROPE NAOW;

Celts;

Also:

Wales, obviously. The barbarians overran all other roman provinces except Britannia and supplanted the cultures in the Empire, whereas we survived in the hills and resisted total germanization for centuries, and then during a brief stint of being occupied we eventually we installed the Welsh Tudors on the throne who rightly distanced themselves from Lombard-Papists and founded the Empire by taking recompense from Visigothic and Basque raiders of the new world by force, and spending all that cash on things like tea and Imperialism.

There's some seriousness behind the claim. The roman legions left because of Imperial collapse and inability to devote resources to fighting Saxon invaders, telling the Romano-British to "Look to your own defenses."
We did so for centuries and undertook a fighting retreat into the hills and mountains of Wales, retaining our cultural continuity and independence and remained a political force on the islands of varying degrees up until the modern devolution. The welsh people have a welsh identity and have rebelled to keep it and so on.

You don't get other Roman provinces with that continuity of identity, nor a direct mandate from Roman authority. We are essentially a nation of citizen-militias given imperial grant by rome to defend ourselves because the legions no longer could, and what is a state if not the control over monopoly over violence and recognition of legitimate violence on its behalf? While the territory may be small, so is the latter stages of the Byzantine rump state, small is better than totally overrun.

The Welsh Dragon is also thought to be a romano-british flag likewise preserved and handed down. Most of the symbology and mythology of the country is based around defense of the province from Saxon invaders. Owain Glyndwyr used the golden dragon battle standard, supposedly used by Uther Pendragon during his battle with the invading Saxons after the legions abandoned the province, and so on.

While Wales was annexed by England and its legal independence ended for some time (If you don't count the Tudors as Wales seizing power over the UK, then you've got a couple of hundred years. If you count them, it's about 100/200.), its cultural independence didn't. Moreover, the English acts of annexation recognized the official distinction between England and Wales which means it was recognized as an entity that continued existing within the borders of the kingdom, that's likewise something other roman provinces lacked when conquered. There was no "There is the Ottoman state, and the Byzantine state, and the laws of the former apply in the latter henceforth" decree by the Ottomans, nor the other conquerors. Legal autonomy to the degree its inhabitants wish has been returned to it too.

So we'll have this too.

All shall be Wales.

[Petrolheadia]

It's not like the UK's culture hasn't been far more shaped by the events that happened in the meantime...

Also,,I don't care about originality for the sake of originality.

[Xah]

The only people who can claim true 'native' origins are original inhabitants of the Rift Valley in Africa. Everyone else is an immigrant, if you go back far enough.

[Munkchester]

I'm kinda descended from illegitimate children of Northern Norman Barons so... I think it's cool ,

Great justification thanks

[Technocratic Uganda]

Did anyone see that he compared the Norman invasion of England to an actual genocide?

Killing a hundred thousand working folk, said to be for the wrongs done by high-born men, but in truth only for being English and living in the North of England where those high-born folk lived IS a slight against mankind. You shouldn't even have to ask whether it is or isn't. It's as dreadful as what happened at Nanking.

This is an incredibly specific variant on "my great-great-great-grandmother was Irish"

Well, I am also a Welshman born in Ireland, but my point is that this boils down to "something that happened nearly a thousand years ago was wrong and I'm going to complain about it". My point is, if anyone is going to complain, it could very well be the Brythonic people who were taken over by the Anglo-Saxons, or even earlier, Pre-IE people on the Isles taken over by the Celts. If we want to complain about history, where do we stop?

the before-IE folk as you think of them were not the first in England, not by a long shot. Their forefathers were neolithic crop-growers who drove out the hunter-gatherers living in Europe at the time.

Both are dead and gone now though. Slights done against them do not hang heavy over living men today. The only kind of folk we can truthfully care about in this post are the Welsh. Even then, no Englishman gave the Welsh hell like the Normans gave us. While we did cleanse most of England of the Welsh tongue and folk over hundreds of years, we did not bring them a loss of freedom anywhere near what the Normans gave us. Welsh, as far as I know, is not full to the brim with English words. We did not give the Welsh a shitty way of doing law from the mainland that is still used in Britain today, we did not shift this island from the North to the West of Europe so this island could become a kingdom geared around free, seafaring trade, in the end making an English way of life built on trade and England a land wielded by traders, with all the rot to our way of life and way of looking at the world that comes with that.

Today all of Engledom, from Alaska to Essex, is fully in its way of life wielded by trade and its law is wielded by the traders. Men who hate a good old way of life had with one's kindred in which a man is thought of as a man and not only a grey, rootless worker, men who care for naught but gold, are the ones on top. They call Engledom an "open society" with their words taken from French and stuck onto our own, and tell red-blooded Englishmen there is no need to worry, we are only going "forward" when this is happening. Engledom today is the worst kind of rot the world has ever seen, and what does it do with all that rot? It spreads it. Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis died not more than twenty years before today so we could spread our trade and our rot to their land. We made Dresden, the home of our Dutch-speaking brothers, into a heap of ashes first and foremost because they were bad for our traders. For hundreds of years before that, Engledom has been home to every kind of slimy trader you can think of from abroad.

Thousands of thousands of good folk who lived for land, kindred and God, along with those who wielded their laws, were killed by the fighters of Engledom in the past hundred or so years alone, and for nothing but the spread of rot. We did not have to be like this, we were made into this by the Normans. If we cannot be brought back from this way of doing things, it is probably better that Engledom is cleansed of its sickness with atomic shells. This goes beyond who was in what land and when because the English weren't wiped out by the Normans, they just became something far worse. Not only do we embody rot, but we are also the strongest kind of rot the Earth has ever seen.

[Technocratic Uganda]

What's OP going to write next for a thread? "the Aztecs were wronged by the Spanish"?

Are you saying they weren't? Are you telling me that Spanish folk, or any other kind of folk, running amok, taking over other lands and wrecking their men and womens' way of life is in any way a good thing? You know why postcolonialism (pardon my Latin) is a thing, right?

[Tasuirin]

the before-IE folk as you think of them were not the first in England, not by a long shot. Their forefathers were neolithic crop-growers who drove out the hunter-gatherers living in Europe at the time.

Literally, pre-IE just means 'before the arrival of Indo Europeans', without any specificity of time.

Both are dead and gone now though. Slights done against them do not hang heavy over living men today. The only kind of folk we can truthfully care about in this post are the Welsh. Even then, no Englishman gave the Welsh hell like the Normans gave us. While we did cleanse most of England of the Welsh tongue and folk over hundreds of years, we did not bring them a loss of freedom anywhere near what the Normans gave us. Welsh, as far as I know, is not full to the brim with English words.

The Anglo-Saxons still invaded Britain, and you're lying to yourself if you think there weren't any atrocities committed by the Anglo-Saxons, and even if there weren't, it must be understood that the invasion was not just linguistic. Moreover, contemporary Welsh language is littered with loans from English, and these are basic things, so one can assume that the level of political domination was quite severe.

We did not give the Welsh a shitty way of doing law from the mainland that is still used in Britain today

No, because the shitty way the Anglo-Saxons did law was superseded by the shitty way the Normans did law. That is the only reason why you can say that the shitty way they did law does not survive up to today. For the entire rest of that, yes, Celtic law was a thing, other than that many Romano-Britons followed adapted Roman styles of law, and the Anglo-Saxons forcefully imposed their laws on the few Celts still in England.

we did not shift this island from the North to the West of Europe so this island could become a kingdom geared around free, seafaring trade, in the end making an English way of life built on trade and England a land wielded by traders, with all the rot to our way of life and way of looking at the world that comes with that.

Such salt there. I'd argue that pre-Anglo-Saxon Britain was in the West of Europe culturally as well, similar to the other Celtic groups that were taken over at various points in history. All you did was shift it to the North, and the Normans, for all of their innumerable flaws, shifted it back. We can both definitely agree that the Normans were terrible, but in this regard, you don't really have a leg to stand on.

Today all of Engledom, from Alaska to Essex, is fully in its way of life wielded by trade and its law is wielded by the traders. Men who hate a good old way of life had with one's kindred in which a man is thought of as a man and not only a grey, rootless worker, men who care for naught but gold, are the ones on top. They call Engledom an "open society" with their words taken from French and stuck onto our own, and tell red-blooded Englishmen there is no need to worry, we are only going "forward" when this is happening. Engledom today is the worst kind of rot the world has ever seen, and what does it do with all that rot? It spreads it. Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis died not more than twenty years before today so we could spread our trade and our rot to their land. We made Dresden, the home of our Dutch-speaking brothers, into a heap of ashes first and foremost because they were bad for our traders. For hundreds of years before that, Engledom has been home to every kind of slimy trader you can think of from abroad.

You really have a hate of traders, yeah? Bearing in mind that the Anglo-Saxons were privy to trade relations as well, I kind of think that's just annoyance with history in general.

Thousands of thousands of good folk who lived for land, kindred and God, along with those who wielded their laws, were killed by the fighters of Engledom in the past hundred or so years alone, and for nothing but the spread of rot. We did not have to be like this, we were made into this by the Normans. If we cannot be brought back from this way of doing things, it is probably better that Engledom is cleansed of its sickness with atomic shells. This goes beyond who was in what land and when because the English weren't wiped out by the Normans, they just became something far worse. Not only do we embody rot, but we are also the strongest kind of rot the Earth has ever seen.

All of what you are saying could be argued from a Celtic point of view, except that the Anglo-Saxons and later the Normans contributed wholesale to the near-extinction of Celtic languages and cultures. Am I being a Norman apologist? Maybe, maybe not. But do I think complaining about what has already happened in history is an exercise in futility? Absolutely. Do I feel wronged by Anglo-Saxons, even though they took my ancestors' lands and butchered many of them? Of course not. History happened - accept it and do something to help fix the present.

[Veise]

Restore the Danelaw!

Really funny

TWA HALFFLALFA vs Two bread.

Yeah, Modern English is wack, but Old English is rather absurd. Modern English is remarkably easy to learn BECAUSE of it being the lawless wasteland of the linguistic world, so I would rather not have 1066 be undone.

Yeah in the end it was all worth it because we got some new words.

Reminder that this is actual government propaganda

Government propaganda? I'm not British. I literally despise the UK's government with every fiber of my body. Don't play yourself.

[Andsed]

Who the hell cares?

[The Federated Soviets of North America]

Listen, I know that you are starved for attention after your last absurd thread got shut down, but we really didn't need another 4k word essay about complete fucking nonsense.

[Munkchester]

we did not shift this island from the North to the West of Europe so this island could become a kingdom geared around free, seafaring trade, in the end making an English way of life built on trade and England a land wielded by traders, with all the rot to our way of life and way of looking at the world that comes with that.

Today all of Engledom, from Alaska to Essex, is fully in its way of life wielded by trade and its law is wielded by the traders. Men who hate a good old way of life had with one's kindred in which a man is thought of as a man and not only a grey, rootless worker, men who care for naught but gold, are the ones on top. They call Engledom an "open society" with their words taken from French and stuck onto our own, and tell red-blooded Englishmen there is no need to worry, we are only going "forward" when this is happening. Engledom today is the worst kind of rot the world has ever seen, and what does it do with all that rot? It spreads it. Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis died not more than twenty years before today so we could spread our trade and our rot to their land.

We made Dresden, the home of our Dutch-speaking brothers, into a heap of ashes first and foremost because they were bad for our traders.

Ah right you're one of the Anglish people who like to call German Dutch

For hundreds of years before that, Engledom has been home to every kind of slimy trader you can think of from abroad.

Thousands of thousands of good folk who lived for land, kindred and God, along with those who wielded their laws, were killed by the fighters of Engledom in the past hundred or so years alone, and for nothing but the spread of rot. We did not have to be like this, we were made into this by the Normans. If we cannot be brought back from this way of doing things, it is probably better that Engledom is cleansed of its sickness with atomic shells. This goes beyond who was in what land and when because the English weren't wiped out by the Normans, they just became something far worse. Not only do we embody rot, but we are also the strongest kind of rot the Earth has ever seen.

Nice, you're either an "Englisc nationalist" type or just a troll

[Hrythingia]

Are you one of those Germanophile national socialists? Explains a lot.