What did the Nazis do for us?

[Thermodolia]

Grindelwald is not a terribly important character, and Voldemort and his Death Eaters are not really all that like Hitler and the Nazis, especially not in the course of the events of the novels.

he is in the Fantastic Beasts films

have you not seen them? Grindelwald is a main character.

Voldemort not like the Nazis? Pure-blood/blood purity ideology, enslavement of Muggles and Muggle-borns, quiet and gradual take over of government and society, the use of education and media as propaganda weapons... I don't know, it all sound like it got pulled from the Nazis. If the series had been a bit higher than PG Rowling could easily have had Voldemort kill 6-12 million Muggles/Muggle-born magic users and it would still seem in character.

Have you ever heard of the KKK? They are all about that pure-blood shit

[Infected Mushroom]

he is in the Fantastic Beasts films

have you not seen them? Grindelwald is a main character.

Voldemort not like the Nazis? Pure-blood/blood purity ideology, enslavement of Muggles and Muggle-borns, quiet and gradual take over of government and society, the use of education and media as propaganda weapons... I don't know, it all sound like it got pulled from the Nazis. If the series had been a bit higher than PG Rowling could easily have had Voldemort kill 6-12 million Muggles/Muggle-born magic users and it would still seem in character.

Have you ever heard of the KKK? They are all about that pure-blood shit

Rowling wouldn't have been familiar with American history; the KKK isn't that well known outside of North America.

If I walked out right now and talked about Hitler people would know what I'm talking about. If I said KKK they would be like... "WHAT? What's the KKK?" That's literally how all my non-NA friends would respond.

[Mattopilos II]

he is in the Fantastic Beasts films

have you not seen them? Grindelwald is a main character.

Voldemort not like the Nazis? Pure-blood/blood purity ideology, enslavement of Muggles and Muggle-borns, quiet and gradual take over of government and society, the use of education and media as propaganda weapons... I don't know, it all sound like it got pulled from the Nazis. If the series had been a bit higher than PG Rowling could easily have had Voldemort kill 6-12 million Muggles/Muggle-born magic users and it would still seem in character.

Have you ever heard of the KKK? They are all about that pure-blood shit

Hell, is was present in Pre-Nazi Germany.

[Infected Mushroom]

Have you ever heard of the KKK? They are all about that pure-blood shit

Hell, is was present in Pre-Nazi Germany.

Again, no one in 1998 would be thinking... "Let's make a novel and have villains drawing from racist elements from 20th century Germany" in a timeline with no Nazis."

Another version of HP maybe would have been written but it would have been a very different story...

[Mattopilos II]

Have you ever heard of the KKK? They are all about that pure-blood shit

Rowling wouldn't have been familiar with American history; the KKK isn't that well known outside of North America.

If I walked out right now and talked about Hitler people would know what I'm talking about. If I said KKK they would be like... "WHAT? What's the KKK?" That's literally how all my non-NA friends would respond.

Well for one, they attempted to go international. A little disingenuous to think people outside America don't know the KKK. I am Australian, so am I ignorant of them by default?

[Infected Mushroom]

Rowling wouldn't have been familiar with American history; the KKK isn't that well known outside of North America.

If I walked out right now and talked about Hitler people would know what I'm talking about. If I said KKK they would be like... "WHAT? What's the KKK?" That's literally how all my non-NA friends would respond.

Well for one, they attempted to go international. A little disingenuous to think people outside America don't know the KKK. I am Australian, so am I ignorant of them by default?

Its not ignorance. You're not expected to know.

Just as I'm not expected to know about historical Australian figures. I can't even name a single Australian PM (and why would I)?

[Mattopilos II]

Hell, is was present in Pre-Nazi Germany.

Again, no one in 1998 would be thinking... "Let's make a novel and have villains drawing from racist elements from 20th century Germany" in a timeline with no Nazis."

Another version of HP maybe would have been written but it would have been a very different story...

Big claim you can't really uphold without a time machine or the likes. You are really grasping at straws here.

[Mattopilos II]

Well for one, they attempted to go international. A little disingenuous to think people outside America don't know the KKK. I am Australian, so am I ignorant of them by default?

Its not ignorance. You're not expected to know.

Just as I'm not expected to know about historical Australian figures. I can't even name a single Australian PM (and why would I)?

Australian PMs are quite a different presence than the KKK. American politics are far more ubiquitous than Australian politics, especially the controversial parts.

[Infected Mushroom]

Its not ignorance. You're not expected to know.

Just as I'm not expected to know about historical Australian figures. I can't even name a single Australian PM (and why would I)?

Australian PMs are quite a different presence than the KKK. American politics are far more ubiquitous than Australian politics, especially the controversial parts.

KKK is local politics, not international, and it doesn't have the kind of international fame as something like the JFK shooting

[Mattopilos II]

Oh, and on Britain not knowing the KKK:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... Front.html
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... hate-crime
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/w ... tish-86445

Must be a complete coincidence.

"Local" politics? Hah. And as you know, if it isn't as well known as X event, it mustn't be known much as all. What a piss poor take.


Anything else to talk about?

[Infected Mushroom]

Oh, and on Britain not knowing the KKK:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... Front.html
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... hate-crime
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/w ... tish-86445

Must be a complete coincidence.

you're mischaracterising what I'm saying

I'm saying, its not well known enough for you to reasonably expect Rowling (or any single UK person) in the 1990s to draw inspiration from it

I'm not saying no one in the UK (at all) knows about the KKK

I can dig up newspaper reports in Thailand probably that talk about the KKK at points in the past... doesn't mean the average Thai knows about the KKK or that its part of the mainstream public consciousness

[Mattopilos II]

Oh, and on Britain not knowing the KKK:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... Front.html
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... hate-crime
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/w ... tish-86445

Must be a complete coincidence.

you're mischaracterising what I'm saying

I'm saying, its not well known enough for you to reasonably expect Rowling (or any single UK person) in the 1990s to draw inspiration from it

I'm not saying no one in the UK (at all) knows about the KKK

I can dig up newspaper reports in Thailand probably that talk about the KKK at points in the past... doesn't mean the average Thai knows about the KKK or that its part of the mainstream public consciousness

And you can't say they don't. You are suggesting that because it isn't as well known as Nazis and the likes, it can't be inspiration for something as heinous as the antagonists of the Harry Potter serious. Your argument hangs by a thread, and by some uber-ignorance on anything less well-known than the Nazis or the JFK assassination.

If you want to enjoy a work based on what is known in history? Sure, go ahead. Just don't pretend you are some time-lord who thinks that Want For A Nail doesn't work because of your want for X version of a work. It's not very effective.

[Thermodolia]

Australian PMs are quite a different presence than the KKK. American politics are far more ubiquitous than Australian politics, especially the controversial parts.

KKK is local politics, not international, and it doesn't have the kind of international fame as something like the JFK shooting

The KKK definitely wasn’t local politics. They where National. And in some parts of the US continued until the early 2000s as a political force.

Just admit that you don’t give a shit about anything besides yourself

[Thermodolia]

Well for one, they attempted to go international. A little disingenuous to think people outside America don't know the KKK. I am Australian, so am I ignorant of them by default?

Its not ignorance. You're not expected to know.

Just as I'm not expected to know about historical Australian figures. I can't even name a single Australian PM (and why would I)?

Malcolm Turnbull, Tony Abbott, Kevin Rudd. It’s not that hard if ya read the news and not fantasize about silly tv shows like they are the best thing since the Mona Lisa

[Major-Tom]

Well, they act as a perfect villain in historical thrillers, not to mention excellent NPCs in a video game where they're the opposing team.

There's also the whole thing that Nazism is the most repugnant ideology and it's implementation is a fucking blemish on human history that will never dissipate, which is why I find the question the OP poses to be ridiculous.

[Mattopilos II]

Well, they act as a perfect villain in historical thrillers, not to mention excellent NPCs in a video game where they're the opposing team.

There's also the whole thing that Nazism is the most repugnant ideology and it's implementation is a fucking blemish on human history that will never dissipate, which is why I find the question the OP poses to be ridiculous.

And the irony of people calling themselves the master race losing their only war is always a good laugh.

[Infected Mushroom]

Well, they act as a perfect villain in historical thrillers, not to mention excellent NPCs in a video game where they're the opposing team.

There's also the whole thing that Nazism is the most repugnant ideology and it's implementation is a fucking blemish on human history that will never dissipate, which is why I find the question the OP poses to be ridiculous.

No Versailles, no Nazis

The British/French are actually responsible

[Dahon]

Well, they act as a perfect villain in historical thrillers, not to mention excellent NPCs in a video game where they're the opposing team.

There's also the whole thing that Nazism is the most repugnant ideology and it's implementation is a fucking blemish on human history that will never dissipate, which is why I find the question the OP poses to be ridiculous.

No Versailles, no Nazis

The British/French are actually responsible

Yes, let's blame everyone but the moving parts behind the Holocaust.

[Union of the Great Lakes]

They advanced small arms and munitions quite far. I’m no Wehraboo but the famous Panzer line is famous for a reason. The Sturmgewehr also made the entirety of the Allies realize “Holy crap we can do that too!”, and then they did.

[Mattopilos II]

They advanced small arms and munitions quite far. I’m no Wehraboo but the famous Panzer line is famous for a reason. The Sturmgewehr also made the entirety of the Allies realize “Holy crap we can do that too!”, and then they did.

Now if only he didn't fuck it up by making terrible design and logistic choices with said tanks.
Cool - aesthetically pleasing tanks!
Shit - having them break down and/or not being able to supply said tanks to work as intended.

[NeoOasis]

Well, they act as a perfect villain in historical thrillers, not to mention excellent NPCs in a video game where they're the opposing team.

There's also the whole thing that Nazism is the most repugnant ideology and it's implementation is a fucking blemish on human history that will never dissipate, which is why I find the question the OP poses to be ridiculous.

No Versailles, no Nazis

The British/French are actually responsible

The British and the French didn't force facism on Germany. They didn't force Hitler into power.

The German citizens are solely responsible for their own decisions. They could have chosen literally anyone else, but went with the cocaine addicted tiny mustache weild dweed called Adolf Hitler.

The treaty may have pushed sentiment towards an extreme, but I firmly believe the rise of facism would have happened regradless. Because at the end of the day even had the treaty been less extreme, German would have still lost land, and presitge, and people would be very invested in regaining it.

I loathe to admit a single positive thing the Nazis did... and any advances they made in rocketry/medicine/science came at a price not worth the steep cost. I'd rather humanity had waited 50 years for the advances to be made.

[Infected Mushroom]

No Versailles, no Nazis

The British/French are actually responsible

The British and the French didn't force facism on Germany. They didn't force Hitler into power.

The German citizens are solely responsible for their own decisions. They could have chosen literally anyone else, but went with the cocaine addicted tiny mustache weild dweed called Adolf Hitler.

The treaty may have pushed sentiment towards an extreme, but I firmly believe the rise of facism would have happened regradless. Because at the end of the day even had the treaty been less extreme, German would have still lost land, and presitge, and people would be very invested in regaining it.

I loathe to admit a single positive thing the Nazis did... and any advances they made in rocketry/medicine/science came at a price not worth the steep cost. I'd rather humanity had waited 50 years for the advances to be made.

No I'd say it was 80-90% the fault of the British and the French for forcing Versailles on Germany.

When you try to humiliate an entire nation, you set the preconditions for irrational hatred and scapegoating to take over.

I guarantee you, no Versailles, no humiliation, no massive war reparations, things would have played out differently.

Its one thing to have Germany go through the horrors of WWI, its another to make them "responsible" for it. They understandably felt a lot of hatred.

[Mattopilos II]

ooo, a percentage! You must know your stuff!

[Caracasus]

The British and the French didn't force facism on Germany. They didn't force Hitler into power.

The German citizens are solely responsible for their own decisions. They could have chosen literally anyone else, but went with the cocaine addicted tiny mustache weild dweed called Adolf Hitler.

The treaty may have pushed sentiment towards an extreme, but I firmly believe the rise of facism would have happened regradless. Because at the end of the day even had the treaty been less extreme, German would have still lost land, and presitge, and people would be very invested in regaining it.

I loathe to admit a single positive thing the Nazis did... and any advances they made in rocketry/medicine/science came at a price not worth the steep cost. I'd rather humanity had waited 50 years for the advances to be made.

No I'd say it was 80-90% the fault of the British and the French for forcing Versailles on Germany.

When you try to humiliate an entire nation, you set the preconditions for irrational hatred and scapegoating to take over.

I guarantee you, no Versailles, no humiliation, no massive war reparations, things would have played out differently.

Its one thing to have Germany go through the horrors of WWI, its another to make them "responsible" for it. They understandably felt a lot of hatred.

No great depression, no economic collapse, no nazis.

You know, there were a lot of factors that led to the rise of the nazi party and nazi germany. There were also many factors that influenced hitler's weird obsession with racial purity but it was the nazis that committed these crimes.

I mean, you could (as may historians do) argue that the influence of the United States and its obsession with eugenics and racial purity at the time (not to mention hitler's comments about white settlers shooting a few hundred thousand redskins and claiming a continent) arguably had a far greater role in the formation of the ideology itself.

I think you ae confusing contributing factors with reaponsibility here.

[Oil exporting People]

Beat the utter living hell out of the Soviets, probably saving Europe from an even more destructive conflict that would've occurred and directly engendered the formalization of the Western Bloc that ultimately killed them off. Even to this day, nothing makes a Communist shit himself more than a picture of a Panzer.