In Remembrance & Discussion - November 11, 1918

[Tasuirin]

If Germany just had Elsass-Lothringen, Danzig, Posen and Ostpreussen taken away and then divided like the Roosevelt plan said, the German states would be too weak to fight.

The French plan was far better. Break Germany into four separate states. Two of which would be under French influence and control. The was to be one independent German Territory and another influenced by Poland

I honestly think there's every chance that would backfire and cause an even bloodier version of World War II.

[Engleberg]

Every word you speak in relation to breaking up Germany gets more and more atrocious for my eyes. How could anyone support this.

What if Austria would have won in 1866?

Please no

[Lindenholt]

Tbh WWI could have been avoided if the Byzantine Empire still existed.

RIP

If those pesky Proto-Indo-Europeans never came to Europe then both world wars would have been prevented.

[NewLakotah]

Tbh WWI could have been avoided if the Byzantine Empire still existed.

RIP

Depending on how powerful the Empire was and not just a tiny city-state nation... Yeah, that actually makes alot of sense. Balkans would not have had the rugged history that they did have, and political stablity in the region would have prevented alot of the preliminary conflicts that directly lead to WWI...

You might be on to something there.

[Tasuirin]

Tbh WWI could have been avoided if the Byzantine Empire still existed.

RIP

If those pesky Proto-Indo-Europeans never came to Europe then both world wars would have been prevented.

If those annoying Homo Sapiens never left Africa, then most wars would have been prevented.

[Thermodolia]

The French plan was far better. Break Germany into four separate states. Two of which would be under French influence and control. The was to be one independent German Territory and another influenced by Poland

Every word you speak in relation to breaking up Germany gets more and more atrocious for my eyes. How could anyone support this.

Germany invaded France. Germany needed to be stopped

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

Tbh WWI could have been avoided if the Byzantine Empire still existed.

RIP

You’re not exactly wrong there.

Enrico Dandolo is to blame for WWI, clearly. The Fourth Crusade was an inside job.

[Saiwania]

Are you seriously implying Germany deserved to be broken up, and Prussia dissolved after WWI?

This was the USSR's doing, which wanted a buffer zone to not get invaded again. If any nation attacked from the west; the Soviets would be better prepared than was the case in 1941. Prussia and eastern German territories were dissolved as a result of the Soviet Union moving all of Poland westward to the Oder river and the Germans who lived there fleeing westward ahead of time or being expelled to what remained of Germany.

It paid off in the end though, because Germany was able to annex the former GDR that was Soviet created. Korean reunification never happened.

[Nakena]

What if Austria would have won in 1866?

Please no

Austria had a more rightful claim to form Germany than Prussia.

[Trumptonium1]

Why? Germany didn't exist before 1871, and probably shouldn't have existed past 1919 in the manner that it did. Would have saved another 70 million lives possibly. Secondly Prussia barely existed after WWI as it is.

The German Empire has every right to exist as France or Britain.

Who has given Germany the right to exist?

Right to existence is given by neighbours.

[Engleberg]

Every word you speak in relation to breaking up Germany gets more and more atrocious for my eyes. How could anyone support this.

Germany invaded France. Germany needed to be stopped

“Germany needed to be stopped”

Nice meme there. Germany was acting in its own self-defence, having to remove the French from the picture in order to survive.

[NewLakotah]

Why? Germany didn't exist before 1871, and probably shouldn't have existed past 1919 in the manner that it did. Would have saved another 70 million lives possibly. Secondly Prussia barely existed after WWI as it is.

The German Empire has every right to exist as France or Britain.

What about the Ottoman Empire? One that had lasted for centuries, only to be carved up? What makes the German EMpire so dang special? It was a recent invention, one that resulted in 2 World Wars. I am not going into who has a right or not a right to exist, every nation in existance, both past and present, have had a right to exist, until they lose, and lose that right. The Ottomans lost, and ceased to exist. The Byzantine, Roman Empires... It has nothing to do with a "right" to exist, but you need to actually succeed at being an Empire, something that Germany failed at.

[Engleberg]

The German Empire has every right to exist as France or Britain.

Who has given Germany the right to exist?

Right to existence is given by neighbours.

Prussia defeated the largest powers of Europe, giving it the right to found an empire for the German peoples.

[Thermodolia]

The French plan was far better. Break Germany into four separate states. Two of which would be under French influence and control. The was to be one independent German Territory and another influenced by Poland

I honestly think there's every chance that would backfire and cause an even bloodier version of World War II.

Not likely. The French plan was that France would occupy the entire Rhineland and all of Southern Germany. Independent Germany would have been reliant on other nations to stay afloat.

[Unionist Mercia]

They shall grow not old,
As we that are left grow old,
Age shall not weary them,
Nor the years contemn. 
At the going down of the sun,
And in the morning,
We will remember them.

Let us hope that nothing akin to the two Great Wars shall ever be allowed to happen again.

Please do not seek to elevate or distinguish any nation or alliance's losses above any others, as that is a very dangerous road of exceptionalism that ultimately led to the second great conflict. Let us remember each and every young man drafted off to fight, every villager killed for living where they did, every child left fatherless, every mother weeping for her son, regardless of whether they were Serb, German, British, French, Russian, Portuguese, Belgian, American, Canadian, etc., etc.

Peace and goodwill to all,
Lest we forget.
We are, after all, human, with thoughts, love and fears all the same.

[Trumptonium1]

Germany invaded France. Germany needed to be stopped

“Germany needed to be stopped”

Nice meme there. Germany was acting in its own self-defence, having to remove the French from the picture in order to survive.

"Germany had to remove the French in order to survive"
"Germany has as much right to exist as France"

Huh

[Nakena]

Germany invaded France. Germany needed to be stopped

“Germany needed to be stopped”

Nice meme there. Germany was acting in its own self-defence, having to remove the French from the picture in order to survive.

No. They could just have fought defensively on the west. Schlieffen plan was an mistake to begin with.

[Trumptonium1]

Who has given Germany the right to exist?

Right to existence is given by neighbours.

Prussia defeated the largest powers of Europe, giving it the right to found an empire for the German peoples.

And then Prussia got defeated

Might makes right

[Lindenholt]

If those pesky Proto-Indo-Europeans never came to Europe then both world wars would have been prevented.

If those annoying Homo Sapiens never left Africa, then most wars would have been prevented.

If the asteroid that killed off the dinosaurs missed Earth, then all wars would have been prevented.

[NewLakotah]

Who has given Germany the right to exist?

Right to existence is given by neighbours.

Prussia defeated the largest powers of Europe, giving it the right to found an empire for the German peoples.

And then they lost that right when they lost the war.

[Tasuirin]

The German Empire has every right to exist as France or Britain.

Who has given Germany the right to exist?

Right to existence is given by neighbours.

No country has the 'right' to exist. Any country can exist if its people or leaders will it to be so. Once we talk about what countries have the right to exist and what don't, then we start disregarding the will of the people. Germans wanted a united Germany, and they got it. Thanks to slightly weaker treaties than some would have inevitably liked, it still exists today.

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

“Germany needed to be stopped”

Nice meme there. Germany was acting in its own self-defence, having to remove the French from the picture in order to survive.

No. They could just have fought defensively on the west. Schlieffen plan was an mistake to begin with.

Gonna have to agree with this. Offensive action wasn't necessary on the Western Front. In fact, it just made things worse when Germany invaded the Low Countries and Brought Britain into the conflict.

[Tasuirin]

If those annoying Homo Sapiens never left Africa, then most wars would have been prevented.

If the asteroid that killed off the dinosaurs missed Earth, then all wars would have been prevented.

If early amphibious fish never left the waters, then massive territorial land creatures would have been prevented.

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

Who has given Germany the right to exist?

Right to existence is given by neighbours.

No country has the 'right' to exist. Any country can exist if its people or leaders will it to be so. Once we talk about what countries have the right to exist and what don't, then we start disregarding the will of the people. Germans wanted a united Germany, and they got it. Thanks to slightly weaker treaties than some would have inevitably liked, it still exists today.

I'd argue some countries don't deserve to exist.

Like North Korea.

[Engleberg]

No country has the 'right' to exist. Any country can exist if its people or leaders will it to be so. Once we talk about what countries have the right to exist and what don't, then we start disregarding the will of the people. Germans wanted a united Germany, and they got it. Thanks to slightly weaker treaties than some would have inevitably liked, it still exists today.

I'd argue some countries don't deserve to exist.

Like North Korea.

PRC, North Korea, etc.