What makes you believe?

[Senkaku]

I don't know. Did the Apostles? Was there a resurrection? The disciples of Appolonius of Tyana said they witnessed miracles, should we be filled with faith in him?

The apostles claimed there was, and they died for that belief. Why would they die for it if they were lying about what they witnessed?

People died for Communism, too. That doesn't mean it was a brilliant and correct idea.

[Dogmeat]

The apostles claimed there was, and they died for that belief. Why would they die for it if they were lying about what they witnessed?

People died for Communism, too. That doesn't mean it was a brilliant and correct idea.

Truly there is no end to terrible ideas that people have died for.

[Conserative Morality]

What did they claim to witness that was special?

Prophecy and visions. Unlike many prophecies, Koresh's came true!

[Dogmeat]

I would rather believe than to be wrong and spend eternity in hell, it's come from a former agnostic.

It's weird how all these former atheists and agnostics seem to be unfamiliar with widely known criticisms of stupid ideas like Pascal's wager.

[Wawakanatote]

Personally, I'm an atheist myself as I don't see enough proof for me to believe in any deity (of course somethings have made me wonder and it is interesting to think about). However, those who believe in one I have no problem with unless they use their beliefs as an excuse just to be rude towards other people.

[United Muscovite Nations]

What did they claim to witness that was special?

Prophecy and visions. Unlike many prophecies, Koresh's came true!

Based David Koresh

[United Muscovite Nations]

Personally, I'm an atheist myself as I don't see enough proof for me to believe in any deity (of course somethings have made me wonder and it is interesting to think about). However, those who believe in one I have no problem with unless they use their beliefs as an excuse just to be rude towards other people.

>Xi Jinping flag
I see you too are a man of culture.

[Geneviev]

I'm Christian because there's a lot of evidence for God and even atheists found the evidence and believed. The Case for Christ is another example of that. Also, from watching my parents I've seen people who were supposed to die from cancer be healed miraculously. The only explanation is that there's a God. There have been some things that don't seem to make sense, especially in my science class, but the Bible does warn about that in Acts 20:29-30.

[Dogmeat]

I'm Christian because there's a lot of evidence for God and even atheists found the evidence and believed. The Case for Christ is another example of that. Also, from watching my parents I've seen people who were supposed to die from cancer be healed miraculously. The only explanation is that there's a God. There have been some things that don't seem to make sense, especially in my science class, but the Bible does warn about that in Acts 20:29-30.

Mostly arguments from ignorance.

[Geneviev]

I'm Christian because there's a lot of evidence for God and even atheists found the evidence and believed. The Case for Christ is another example of that. Also, from watching my parents I've seen people who were supposed to die from cancer be healed miraculously. The only explanation is that there's a God. There have been some things that don't seem to make sense, especially in my science class, but the Bible does warn about that in Acts 20:29-30.

Mostly arguments from ignorance.

It's true, though.

[Genivaria]

I'm Christian because there's a lot of evidence for God and even atheists found the evidence and believed. The Case for Christ is another example of that. Also, from watching my parents I've seen people who were supposed to die from cancer be healed miraculously. The only explanation is that there's a God. There have been some things that don't seem to make sense, especially in my science class, but the Bible does warn about that in Acts 20:29-30.

I constantly hear about these stories but then the 'evidence' is terrible.

I'm Christian because there's a lot of evidence for God and even atheists found the evidence and believed. The Case for Christ is another example of that. Also, from watching my parents I've seen people who were supposed to die from cancer be healed miraculously. The only explanation is that there's a God. There have been some things that don't seem to make sense, especially in my science class, but the Bible does warn about that in Acts 20:29-30.

Mostly arguments from ignorance.

First one is 'argument from complexity' which is entirely vapid.
Complexity is most certainly not a hallmark of design, at least not GOOD design.
Remember the KISS principle, 'Keep It Simple Stupid."

[Genivaria]

Mostly arguments from ignorance.

It's true, though.

First start with making sense.

[Kowani]

Mostly arguments from ignorance.

It's true, though.

Do...we have to go down point by point and refute each and every one? Would that satisfy you?

[Dogmeat]

Mostly arguments from ignorance.

It's true, though.

You've given me no reason to believe that.

Take your cancer example: You've said the recovery was "miraculous," by which I assume you mean that medical science cannot explain it. Assuming that's actually true, you've taken "there is no explanation" to mean "actually, there is an explanation, it specifically a triune monotheistic Abrahamic God, and CANT BE ANYTHING ELSE!"

Or to put it another way, you're saying "We don't know, therefore we know." Which is ridiculous. This is also true of the first few arguments in the link you shared (I couldn't bring myself to read all of them.)

[Dogmeat]

I'm Christian because there's a lot of evidence for God and even atheists found the evidence and believed. The Case for Christ is another example of that. Also, from watching my parents I've seen people who were supposed to die from cancer be healed miraculously. The only explanation is that there's a God. There have been some things that don't seem to make sense, especially in my science class, but the Bible does warn about that in Acts 20:29-30.

I constantly hear about these stories but then the 'evidence' is terrible.

Mostly arguments from ignorance.

First one is 'argument from complexity' which is entirely vapid.
Complexity is most certainly not a hallmark of design, at least not GOOD design.
Remember the KISS principle, 'Keep It Simple Stupid."

It's true. My most versatile design in Besiege is just a massive shrapnel bomb.

[Twilight Imperium]

I would rather believe than to be wrong and spend eternity in hell, it's come from a former agnostic.

It's weird how all these former atheists and agnostics seem to be unfamiliar with widely known criticisms of stupid ideas like Pascal's wager.

Not to mention even if you accept the premise of the Wager, it's still intellectually and morally bankrupt to use that as a basis for your faith. You're not professing sincere illuminated belief, you're hedging your bets. You're paying lip service in order to get a bribe and it's disgusting.

Give me three starry eyed honest believers over that BS any day of the week.

[Geneviev]

I'm Christian because there's a lot of evidence for God and even atheists found the evidence and believed. The Case for Christ is another example of that. Also, from watching my parents I've seen people who were supposed to die from cancer be healed miraculously. The only explanation is that there's a God. There have been some things that don't seem to make sense, especially in my science class, but the Bible does warn about that in Acts 20:29-30.

I constantly hear about these stories but then the 'evidence' is terrible.

Mostly arguments from ignorance.

First one is 'argument from complexity' which is entirely vapid.
Complexity is most certainly not a hallmark of design, at least not GOOD design.
Remember the KISS principle, 'Keep It Simple Stupid."

Complexity is good design, because it's almost impossible for something like humans to exist otherwise.

It's true, though.

You've given me no reason to believe that.

Take your cancer example: You've said the recovery was "miraculous," by which I assume you mean that medical science cannot explain it. Assuming that's actually true, you've taken "there is no explanation" to mean "actually, there is an explanation, it specifically a triune monotheistic Abrahamic God, and CANT BE ANYTHING ELSE!"

Or to put it another way, you're saying "We don't know, therefore we know." Which is ridiculous. This is also true of the first few arguments in the link you shared (I couldn't bring myself to read all of them.)

It had to be God because it would be impossible otherwise. He's done a lot of impossible things and that's why. And you should read the whole thing.

[Kowani]

I constantly hear about these stories but then the 'evidence' is terrible.

First one is 'argument from complexity' which is entirely vapid.
Complexity is most certainly not a hallmark of design, at least not GOOD design.
Remember the KISS principle, 'Keep It Simple Stupid."

Complexity is good design, because it's almost impossible for something like humans to exist otherwise.
Coughs in appendix. Coughs in neurodegenerative diseases. Coughs in genetically inherited diseases. Coughs in our stupid lizardbrain.

You've given me no reason to believe that.

Take your cancer example: You've said the recovery was "miraculous," by which I assume you mean that medical science cannot explain it. Assuming that's actually true, you've taken "there is no explanation" to mean "actually, there is an explanation, it specifically a triune monotheistic Abrahamic God, and CANT BE ANYTHING ELSE!"

Or to put it another way, you're saying "We don't know, therefore we know." Which is ridiculous. This is also true of the first few arguments in the link you shared (I couldn't bring myself to read all of them.)

It had to be God because it would be impossible otherwise. He's done a lot of impossible things and that's why. And you should read the whole thing.

And thousands of years ago, we thought the same for lightning, rain, and other natural phenomena. Next!

[Genivaria]

I constantly hear about these stories but then the 'evidence' is terrible.

First one is 'argument from complexity' which is entirely vapid.
Complexity is most certainly not a hallmark of design, at least not GOOD design.
Remember the KISS principle, 'Keep It Simple Stupid."

Complexity is good design, because it's almost impossible for something like humans to exist otherwise.

You mean if it weren't good design then your argument wouldn't make any sense, which it doesn't, and complexity is still a hallmark of BAD. DESIGN.

It had to be God because it would be impossible otherwise.

This kind of knowledge claim is astounding in its arrogance, how can you possibly rule out EVERYTHING ELSE IN THE UNIVERSE and decided it somehow had to be a god?

[Twilight Imperium]

Complexity is good design, because it's almost impossible for something like humans to exist otherwise.

So much for the omnipotent creator, I guess.

[Geneviev]

Complexity is good design, because it's almost impossible for something like humans to exist otherwise.
Coughs in appendix. Coughs in neurodegenerative diseases. Coughs in genetically inherited diseases. Coughs in our stupid lizardbrain.

It had to be God because it would be impossible otherwise. He's done a lot of impossible things and that's why. And you should read the whole thing.

And thousands of years ago, we thought the same for lightning, rain, and other natural phenomena. Next!

And we were not completely wrong.

Complexity is good design, because it's almost impossible for something like humans to exist otherwise.

You mean if it weren't good design then your argument wouldn't make any sense, which it doesn't, and complexity is still a hallmark of BAD. DESIGN.

It had to be God because it would be impossible otherwise.

This kind of knowledge claim is astounding in its arrogance, how can you possibly rule out EVERYTHING ELSE IN THE UNIVERSE and decided it somehow had to be a god?

Everything else in the universe wouldn't make sense.

[Dogmeat]

You've given me no reason to believe that.

Take your cancer example: You've said the recovery was "miraculous," by which I assume you mean that medical science cannot explain it. Assuming that's actually true, you've taken "there is no explanation" to mean "actually, there is an explanation, it specifically a triune monotheistic Abrahamic God, and CANT BE ANYTHING ELSE!"

Or to put it another way, you're saying "We don't know, therefore we know." Which is ridiculous. This is also true of the first few arguments in the link you shared (I couldn't bring myself to read all of them.)

It had to be God because it would be impossible otherwise. He's done a lot of impossible things and that's why. And you should read the whole thing.

Again, assuming it actually is impossible (which we shouldn't), all that proves is that something seemingly impossible happened.

It doesn't count for proof of your god unless you can prove that your god is the one responsible. Any more than it counts as proof of Vishnu, aliens, or Panacea from the Wormverse.

[Kowani]

And thousands of years ago, we thought the same for lightning, rain, and other natural phenomena. Next!

And we were not completely wrong.
There are two things here. Firstly, no, we were completely wrong. We figured out the rules by which such events occur.


Secondly, if God did control natural phenomena, explain droughts.

[Genivaria]

And thousands of years ago, we thought the same for lightning, rain, and other natural phenomena. Next!

And we were not completely wrong.

You mean if it weren't good design then your argument wouldn't make any sense, which it doesn't, and complexity is still a hallmark of BAD. DESIGN.

This kind of knowledge claim is astounding in its arrogance, how can you possibly rule out EVERYTHING ELSE IN THE UNIVERSE and decided it somehow had to be a god?

Everything else in the universe wouldn't make sense.

Oh I didn't know we had an all-knowing physicist, biologist, etc in the room.
Please do explain how the universe works.

[Twilight Imperium]

Please do explain how the universe works.

Primarily through the interactions of force fields, why do you ask?