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Freedom of Religion in Public Places

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Borinsa
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Postby Borinsa » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:04 pm

Kubumba Tribe wrote:The student should've gotten his way.


No, he shouldn't, because some religious practices are stupid taboos that need to be dropped.

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Thermodolia
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Postby Thermodolia » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:04 pm

Thanatttynia wrote:I'd imagine it's not very healthy or safe to walk around in bare feet, but I don't see that it's unhealthy for other people to be around someone in bare feet? They're probably cleaner than the soles of shoes. Seems to be a case of something socially abnormal being labeled a public safety issue because people are confused by it.

No they aren’t. Barefeet can transfer warts and other lovely things that shoes can’t
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Ostroeuropa
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:05 pm

Valgora wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
It's a public health hazard. Verucas and so on. We shouldn't tolerate peoples religion if it's damaging to public wellbeing. Aztecs make for poor neighbors.


How is someone not wearing shoes a public health hazard?
Was he putting his feet on the tables? Was he using his feet to put food on his tray?


Bare feet transfer warts and so on.
Do you remember the 2012 election where Mitt Romney said Russia was the biggest threat to world peace and Obama and the Democratic establishment mocked him, mere years before they began arguing they had allowed US sovereignty to be usurped on their watch by Russia and this is why the other side was unfit to govern?
That's alright, neither do they apparently.

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Cetacea
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Postby Cetacea » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:06 pm

I'd need to see more details on his religious convictions

afaik most of the religious doctrines that mandate barefeet do so as part of a vow of poverty - which begs the question of Why is he is in a cafeteria spending money

beyond that health regulations are a thing espcially in that country

(in my country barefootedness is very common so most shops ignore it - indeed theres at least one incident when a US citizen failed to get a job here after he publically criticised the locals for not wearing shows calling them dirty and uncivilized)

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Valgora
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Postby Valgora » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:07 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Valgora wrote:
How is someone not wearing shoes a public health hazard?
Was he putting his feet on the tables? Was he using his feet to put food on his tray?


Bare feet transfer warts and so on.

To who? Who's touching his feet and/or what are his feet touching that'll transfer warts to other people?
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Kulunja
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Postby Kulunja » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:07 pm

I think the question we should be asking is what good religion bans wearing shoes?!?!?

And honestly, this is icky. On one hand could've just put shoes on, on the other hand the worker was quite rude in their refusing of service. Religion should be banned from public spaces but in terms of American law, I'd side with the workers
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Ostroeuropa
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:07 pm

Thanatttynia wrote:I'd imagine it's not very healthy or safe to walk around in bare feet, but I don't see that it's unhealthy for other people to be around someone in bare feet? They're probably cleaner than the soles of shoes. Seems to be a case of something socially abnormal being labeled a public safety issue because people are confused by it.


This is a better argument than most. I'd argue that he's unnecessarily increasing the risk to those who would go barefoot temporarily for reasons outside their control, or increasing the background risk to people in general from things like broken shoes, worn socks and so on. It's like arguing "Well, only I suffer from refusing to immunize myself."

That's not true. You're fucking over people whose protections have failed. Doing it deliberately should not be tolerated.

Valgora wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
Bare feet transfer warts and so on.

To who? Who's touching his feet and/or what are his feet touching that'll transfer warts to other people?


See above. The floor.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Do you remember the 2012 election where Mitt Romney said Russia was the biggest threat to world peace and Obama and the Democratic establishment mocked him, mere years before they began arguing they had allowed US sovereignty to be usurped on their watch by Russia and this is why the other side was unfit to govern?
That's alright, neither do they apparently.

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Thanatttynia
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Postby Thanatttynia » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:08 pm

Thermodolia wrote:
Thanatttynia wrote:I'd imagine it's not very healthy or safe to walk around in bare feet, but I don't see that it's unhealthy for other people to be around someone in bare feet? They're probably cleaner than the soles of shoes. Seems to be a case of something socially abnormal being labeled a public safety issue because people are confused by it.

No they aren’t. Barefeet can transfer warts and other lovely things that shoes can’t

Shoes can transfer germs, though, probably better than bare feet can, given all the extra surface area on the soles of shoes. And that wouldn't really be a problem if a) you keep your feet on the floor and b) others don't eat off the floor.
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Valgora
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Postby Valgora » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:09 pm

Cetacea wrote:I'd need to see more details on his religious convictions

afaik most of the religious doctrines that mandate barefeet do so as part of a vow of poverty - which begs the question of Why is he is in a cafeteria spending money

It's pretty obvious why he's in the cafeteria spending money - it's called buying food to eat.
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Thanatttynia
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Thanatttynia » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:10 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Thanatttynia wrote:I'd imagine it's not very healthy or safe to walk around in bare feet, but I don't see that it's unhealthy for other people to be around someone in bare feet? They're probably cleaner than the soles of shoes. Seems to be a case of something socially abnormal being labeled a public safety issue because people are confused by it.


This is a better argument than most. I'd argue that he's unnecessarily increasing the risk to those who would go barefoot temporarily for reasons outside their control, or increasing the background risk to people in general from things like broken shoes, worn socks and so on. It's like arguing "Well, only I suffer from refusing to immunize myself."

That's not true. You're fucking over people whose protections have failed. Doing it deliberately should not be tolerated.

I mean, as risks go, that's a pretty minor and inconsequential one. I think erring on the side of greater personal freedom is the way to go unless there is a significant public safety risk.
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The United Lands of Ash
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Founded: Nov 23, 2014
Father Knows Best State

Postby The United Lands of Ash » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:11 pm

Thanatttynia wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:No they aren’t. Barefeet can transfer warts and other lovely things that shoes can’t

Shoes can transfer germs, though, probably better than bare feet can, given all the extra surface area on the soles of shoes. And that wouldn't really be a problem if a) you keep your feet on the floor and b) others don't eat off the floor.

I'd guess one thing a business who doesn't want people to walk around barefoot is also safety. They don't want to liable if a barefooted buy steps on something in their place.

But that's a really specific thing, it doesn't sound like an attack on religion as it is someone not wanting to get sued. Otherwise it isn't really hurting anyone expect the people going around barefoot's feet.
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Ostroeuropa
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:12 pm

Thanatttynia wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
This is a better argument than most. I'd argue that he's unnecessarily increasing the risk to those who would go barefoot temporarily for reasons outside their control, or increasing the background risk to people in general from things like broken shoes, worn socks and so on. It's like arguing "Well, only I suffer from refusing to immunize myself."

That's not true. You're fucking over people whose protections have failed. Doing it deliberately should not be tolerated.

I mean, as risks go, that's a pretty minor and inconsequential one. I think erring on the side of greater personal freedom is the way to go unless there is a significant public safety risk.


I'm prepared to accept arguments about freedom revolving around your right to clothe yourself mostly as you see fit. But the second this guy used religion as his reason without secular back up I have to reject it out of hand.
Do you remember the 2012 election where Mitt Romney said Russia was the biggest threat to world peace and Obama and the Democratic establishment mocked him, mere years before they began arguing they had allowed US sovereignty to be usurped on their watch by Russia and this is why the other side was unfit to govern?
That's alright, neither do they apparently.

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Valgora
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Founded: Mar 23, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Valgora » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:13 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Thanatttynia wrote:I'd imagine it's not very healthy or safe to walk around in bare feet, but I don't see that it's unhealthy for other people to be around someone in bare feet? They're probably cleaner than the soles of shoes. Seems to be a case of something socially abnormal being labeled a public safety issue because people are confused by it.


This is a better argument than most. I'd argue that he's unnecessarily increasing the risk to those who would go barefoot temporarily for reasons outside their control, or increasing the background risk to people in general from things like broken shoes, worn socks and so on. It's like arguing "Well, only I suffer from refusing to immunize myself."

That's not true. You're fucking over people whose protections have failed. Doing it deliberately should not be tolerated.

Valgora wrote:To who? Who's touching his feet and/or what are his feet touching that'll transfer warts to other people?


See above. The floor.


This is nothing like someone not immunizing themself.

The number of people who's shoes are broken to the point of lots of contact between the floor and skin is pretty low - at that point, one might as well be going barefoot.
Really, the only people in any really danger are others who are going barefoot.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:13 pm

Ithreland wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Just like cafes.

I didn't mean that a place in public because it is physically accessible, I mean that a place is public if people are allowed to walk in.


So if I have guests over, it's semi-public. Interesting. Never thought of it that way.

Yes, inviting people into your home is the same as being a cafe.

Sure.

Whatever.


Thermodolia wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Places of worship are public places. Anyone can walk in off the street, just like they can walk into a cafe.

Places of worship are held to a different standard and aren’t considered public places

Ah, so no freedom of religion in public places except how organised religions get to have special rights in public places.
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We have a wall to work upon!
We have work and they have none
And our work is never done
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The enemy is poverty
And the wall keeps out the enemy
And we build the wall to keep us free
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Borinsa
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Borinsa » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:13 pm

Freedom of religion shouldn't exist as a human right.
All it does is violate other human rights.

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Ostroeuropa
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Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:15 pm

Valgora wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
This is a better argument than most. I'd argue that he's unnecessarily increasing the risk to those who would go barefoot temporarily for reasons outside their control, or increasing the background risk to people in general from things like broken shoes, worn socks and so on. It's like arguing "Well, only I suffer from refusing to immunize myself."

That's not true. You're fucking over people whose protections have failed. Doing it deliberately should not be tolerated.



See above. The floor.


This is nothing like someone not immunizing themself.

The number of people who's shoes are broken to the point of lots of contact between the floor and skin is pretty low - at that point, one might as well be going barefoot.
Really, the only people in any really danger are others who are going barefoot.


If he's going barefoot he is probably doing it all the time and in all places he goes. He has drastically increased the risk that the area is infected and is spreading that infection wherever he goes.
Do you remember the 2012 election where Mitt Romney said Russia was the biggest threat to world peace and Obama and the Democratic establishment mocked him, mere years before they began arguing they had allowed US sovereignty to be usurped on their watch by Russia and this is why the other side was unfit to govern?
That's alright, neither do they apparently.

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Valgora
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Founded: Mar 23, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Valgora » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:16 pm

Borinsa wrote:Freedom of religion shouldn't exist as a human right.
All it does is violate other human rights.

Freedom of religion should exist.
It should only cease to exist when it starts to violate the rights of other people.

And freedom of religion also keeps people from being forced to practice a religion they don't want to practice.
REDNECK REVOLT
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Thermodolia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:17 pm

Ifreann wrote:
Ithreland wrote:
So if I have guests over, it's semi-public. Interesting. Never thought of it that way.

Yes, inviting people into your home is the same as being a cafe.

Sure.

Whatever.


Thermodolia wrote:Places of worship are held to a different standard and aren’t considered public places

Ah, so no freedom of religion in public places except how organised religions get to have special rights in public places.

Can you go be pedantic somewhere else?
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Valgora
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Founded: Mar 23, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Valgora » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:17 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Valgora wrote:
This is nothing like someone not immunizing themself.

The number of people who's shoes are broken to the point of lots of contact between the floor and skin is pretty low - at that point, one might as well be going barefoot.
Really, the only people in any really danger are others who are going barefoot.


If he's going barefoot he is probably doing it all the time and in all places he goes. He has drastically increased the risk that the area is infected and is spreading that infection wherever he goes.


An infection that will unlikely affect enough people to become even close to a public safety hazard.
REDNECK REVOLT
PUTTING THE RED BACK IN REDNECK
Libertarian Syndicalist
Not state capitalist

MT+FanT+some PMT
Multi-species.
Current gov't:
Founded 2023
Currently 2027

DISREGARD NS STATS
Link to factbooks-Forum Factbook-Q&A-Embassy
The Reverend Tim
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IRL Me
Luxemburgist/Syndicalist, brony, metalhead
Valgora =+/-IRL views
8 Values

Pro - Socialism/communism, Palestine, space exploration, left libertarianism, BLM, Gun Rights, LGBTQ, Industrial Hemp
Anti - Trump, Hillary, capitalism, authoritarianism, Gun Control, Police, UN, electric cars, Automation of the workforce
Sometimes, I like to think of myself as the Commie version of Dale Gribble.

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The United Lands of Ash
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Posts: 70
Founded: Nov 23, 2014
Father Knows Best State

Postby The United Lands of Ash » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:18 pm

Valgora wrote:
Borinsa wrote:Freedom of religion shouldn't exist as a human right.
All it does is violate other human rights.

Freedom of religion should exist.
It should only cease to exist when it starts to violate the rights of other people.

And freedom of religion also keeps people from being forced to practice a religion they don't want to practice.

Ditto.
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Farburg
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 11
Founded: Oct 23, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Farburg » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:18 pm

Valgora wrote:
Borinsa wrote:Freedom of religion shouldn't exist as a human right.
All it does is violate other human rights.

Freedom of religion should exist.
It should only cease to exist when it starts to violate the rights of other people.

And freedom of religion also keeps people from being forced to practice a religion they don't want to practice.


They should be practicing atheism.

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Thermodolia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 48507
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:19 pm

Valgora wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
This is a better argument than most. I'd argue that he's unnecessarily increasing the risk to those who would go barefoot temporarily for reasons outside their control, or increasing the background risk to people in general from things like broken shoes, worn socks and so on. It's like arguing "Well, only I suffer from refusing to immunize myself."

That's not true. You're fucking over people whose protections have failed. Doing it deliberately should not be tolerated.



See above. The floor.


This is nothing like someone not immunizing themself.

The number of people who's shoes are broken to the point of lots of contact between the floor and skin is pretty low - at that point, one might as well be going barefoot.
Really, the only people in any really danger are others who are going barefoot.

Dude have you heard of the Anti-Vaxx movement?
Male, centrist cultural nationalist, lives somewhere in the Deep South, loves dogs particularly German Shepherds, give me any good Irish or Scottish whiskey and I will be your friend for life. I'm GAY!
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
>Xovland: I keep getting ads for printer ink. Sometimes, when you get that feeling down there, you have to look at some steamy printer pictures.
Click for Da Funies
Click Here for RP Info Embassy Program
Ambassadors to the WA:
Ambassador to the GA Jon Æthr
Ambassador to the SC Eve Šanœ

RIP Dya

User avatar
Ostroeuropa
Post Czar
 
Posts: 48574
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:19 pm

Valgora wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
If he's going barefoot he is probably doing it all the time and in all places he goes. He has drastically increased the risk that the area is infected and is spreading that infection wherever he goes.


An infection that will unlikely affect enough people to become even close to a public safety hazard.


Even infecting one person with a verruca necessitates minor surgery to remove it.
Do you remember the 2012 election where Mitt Romney said Russia was the biggest threat to world peace and Obama and the Democratic establishment mocked him, mere years before they began arguing they had allowed US sovereignty to be usurped on their watch by Russia and this is why the other side was unfit to govern?
That's alright, neither do they apparently.

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Thanatttynia
Minister
 
Posts: 3081
Founded: Nov 10, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Thanatttynia » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:19 pm

The United Lands of Ash wrote:
Thanatttynia wrote:Shoes can transfer germs, though, probably better than bare feet can, given all the extra surface area on the soles of shoes. And that wouldn't really be a problem if a) you keep your feet on the floor and b) others don't eat off the floor.

I'd guess one thing a business who doesn't want people to walk around barefoot is also safety. They don't want to liable if a barefooted buy steps on something in their place.

But that's a really specific thing, it doesn't sound like an attack on religion as it is someone not wanting to get sued. Otherwise it isn't really hurting anyone expect the people going around barefoot's feet.

In which case I think there should be some way for establishments to notify people that should they choose to go without shoes, they cannot be held responsible for injury that may occur on their premises, similar to the noticeboards in parking lots that state people park there at their own risk.
I coulda been :/ anything that I :/ wanted :/ to be :/ yes that decision :/ was mine :/

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Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 125813
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:19 pm

Thermodolia wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Yes, inviting people into your home is the same as being a cafe.

Sure.

Whatever.



Ah, so no freedom of religion in public places except how organised religions get to have special rights in public places.

Can you go be pedantic somewhere else?

*checks founding date*
Signs point to no.
Mistake Not My Current State Of Joshing Gentle Banter For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Snark That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Sarcasm.
What do we have that they should want?
We have a wall to work upon!
We have work and they have none
And our work is never done
My children, my children
And the war is never won
The enemy is poverty
And the wall keeps out the enemy
And we build the wall to keep us free
That's why we build the wall
We build the wall to keep us free
We build the wall to keep us free

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