Freedom of Religion in Public Places

[Valgora]

This is nothing like someone not immunizing themself.

The number of people who's shoes are broken to the point of lots of contact between the floor and skin is pretty low - at that point, one might as well be going barefoot.
Really, the only people in any really danger are others who are going barefoot.

Dude have you heard of the Anti-Vaxx movement?

Yes, I have.
But it is nothing like someone choosing to not wear shoes.

[Ostroeuropa]

Dude have you heard of the Anti-Vaxx movement?

Yes, I have.
But it is nothing like someone choosing to not wear shoes.

They are deliberately increasing their risk of infection, and deliberately increasing the risk to others of transmitting their infection. It's more minor than refusing vaccination because the types of illness are less severe, but fundamentally the same thing is in play. I wouldn't support the same penalties for it as I would for anti-vaxxers, but demanding they leave seems fine.

[Thermodolia]

Dude have you heard of the Anti-Vaxx movement?

Yes, I have.
But it is nothing like someone choosing to not wear shoes.

Ya but someone who doesn’t wear shoes most likely doesn’t think vaccinations are cool. And besides common decency is a thing.

[Valgora]

An infection that will unlikely affect enough people to become even close to a public safety hazard.

Even infecting one person with a verruca necessitates minor surgery to remove it.

Still doesn't make it a public safety hazard.

The only other people who are going to have any real risk are those also going barefoot. Him going barefoot is posing more of a risk to himself than to other people.

[Ostroeuropa]

Even infecting one person with a verruca necessitates minor surgery to remove it.

Still doesn't make it a public safety hazard.

The only other people who are going to have any real risk are those also going barefoot. Him going barefoot is posing more of a risk to himself than to other people.

No, there's also the risk to people whose protections have failed or who for reasons outside their control put their bare feet on the same area. Similar to people with temporarily weakened immune systems, shoes being a human invention that essentially replicates the functions of an extra layer of cell protection.

[The United Lands of Ash]

Yes, I have.
But it is nothing like someone choosing to not wear shoes.

Ya but someone who doesn’t wear shoes most likely doesn’t think vaccinations are cool. And besides common decency is a thing.

That's a bit of a leap.

[Thermodolia]

Even infecting one person with a verruca necessitates minor surgery to remove it.

Still doesn't make it a public safety hazard.

The only other people who are going to have any real risk are those also going barefoot. Him going barefoot is posing more of a risk to himself than to other people.

Banning people from going barefoot is also a way of protecting the establishment from getting sue’d if the dumbass cuts his barefoot.

[Thermodolia]

Ya but someone who doesn’t wear shoes most likely doesn’t think vaccinations are cool. And besides common decency is a thing.

That's a bit of a leap.

Not really. Most people who would go barefoot into shops are usually hippies and hippies aren’t a fan of vaccines

[Ostroeuropa]

These are the kinds of people that keep an illness alive and propagating rather than dropping into obscurity. We have an active human/transhuman interest in policing this behavior to marginalize and hopefully eradicate the illness.

[Valgora]

Yes, I have.
But it is nothing like someone choosing to not wear shoes.

Ya but someone who doesn’t wear shoes most likely doesn’t think vaccinations are cool. And besides common decency is a thing.

You can't really claim that those wearing shoes don't like vaccinations.

And common decency doesn't really matter here.

[Thermodolia]

Ya but someone who doesn’t wear shoes most likely doesn’t think vaccinations are cool. And besides common decency is a thing.

You can't really claim that those wearing shoes don't like vaccinations.

Those who are more likely to go barefoot tend to be hippies. And hippies tend to not like vaccines.

I would have been fine if the guy had sandals on his feet.

And common decency doesn't really matter here.

Common decency does matter. A lot of people don’t think it’s decent to eat near a barefoot person. This being a cafe I think it fits quite well.

[The United Lands of Ash]

Still doesn't make it a public safety hazard.

The only other people who are going to have any real risk are those also going barefoot. Him going barefoot is posing more of a risk to himself than to other people.

Banning people from going barefoot is also a way of protecting the establishment from getting sue’d if the dumbass cuts his barefoot.

Yeah, that's reasonable but outside of said establishment I don't see a problem with going around barefoot.

That's a bit of a leap.

Not really. Most people who would go barefoot into shops are usually hippies and hippies aren’t a fan of vaccines

But that isn't really something that could be argued. I wouldn't be shocked if that's true but saying "all hippies don't like vaccination and only hippies go around barefoot" isn't a logical argument.

[The Black Forrest]

Freedom of Religion has been an excuse to treat other people badly. *Looking at you Colorado baker. Liking the gay governor yet?*

If you aren't disrupting other people, open spaces is fine.

The guy not wear shoes? Who cares. Yes feet can carry germs. So can shoes. For that matter; aren't you already wearing shoes?

Seriously, what are the chances you could pick up an infection from that?

[Valgora]

Still doesn't make it a public safety hazard.

The only other people who are going to have any real risk are those also going barefoot. Him going barefoot is posing more of a risk to himself than to other people.

No, there's also the risk to people whose protections have failed or who for reasons outside their control put their bare feet on the same area. Similar to people with temporarily weakened immune systems, shoes being a human invention that essentially replicates the functions of an extra layer of cell protection.

How many people have shoes that are so badly broken that their skin is in such contact with the floor that they might as well be barefoot?
If someone didn't have the choice and had to be barefoot, what are you going to do about them in situations that this person was in?

[Ostroeuropa]

No, there's also the risk to people whose protections have failed or who for reasons outside their control put their bare feet on the same area. Similar to people with temporarily weakened immune systems, shoes being a human invention that essentially replicates the functions of an extra layer of cell protection.

How many people have shoes that are so badly broken that their skin is in such contact with the floor that they might as well be barefoot?
If someone didn't have the choice and had to be barefoot, what are you going to do about them in situations that this person was in?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hookworm

If someone doesn't have a choice that is substantially different and they should be assisted.

[The United Lands of Ash]

Freedom of Religion has been an excuse to treat other people badly. *Looking at you Colorado baker. Liking the gay governor yet?*

If you aren't disrupting other people, open spaces is fine.

The guy not wear shoes? Who cares. Yes feet can carry germs. So can shoes. For that matter; aren't you already wearing shoes?

Seriously, what are the chances you could pick up an infection from that?

This is good, I like this.

[Ostroeuropa]

Freedom of Religion has been an excuse to treat other people badly. *Looking at you Colorado baker. Liking the gay governor yet?*

If you aren't disrupting other people, open spaces is fine.

The guy not wear shoes? Who cares. Yes feet can carry germs. So can shoes. For that matter; aren't you already wearing shoes?

Seriously, what are the chances you could pick up an infection from that?

1/100 people obtain a foot infection at some point in their lives. That doesn't include parasites and so on that can occur. That's in a society overwhelmingly wearing shoes.

[Valgora]

You can't really claim that those wearing shoes don't like vaccinations.

Those who are more likely to go barefoot tend to be hippies. And hippies tend to not like vaccines.

I would have been fine if the guy had sandals on his feet.

And common decency doesn't really matter here.

Common decency does matter. A lot of people don’t think it’s decent to eat near a barefoot person. This being a cafe I think it fits quite well.

Do you have evidence that hippies tend to not like vaccines and/or be anti-vaxxers?

Why should common decency dictate that he has to wear shoes?
It ain't going to be that different compared to him wearing sandal or flip flops. The only real difference is that his feet have more contact with the ground.

[The United Lands of Ash]

Freedom of Religion has been an excuse to treat other people badly. *Looking at you Colorado baker. Liking the gay governor yet?*

If you aren't disrupting other people, open spaces is fine.

The guy not wear shoes? Who cares. Yes feet can carry germs. So can shoes. For that matter; aren't you already wearing shoes?

Seriously, what are the chances you could pick up an infection from that?

1/100 people obtain a foot infection at some point in their lives. That doesn't include parasites and so on that can occur. That's in a society overwhelmingly wearing shoes.

Then where's the line to draw on public safety vs freedoms? Cars sure cause a lot of injuries and deaths but we keep those around.

[Ostroeuropa]

1/100 people obtain a foot infection at some point in their lives. That doesn't include parasites and so on that can occur. That's in a society overwhelmingly wearing shoes.

Then where's the line to draw on public safety vs freedoms? Cars sure cause a lot of injuries and deaths but we keep those around.

There is no line, it's a matter of deciding on a case by case basis. Wearing shoes isn't hard. Going without transport is. We try to roughly approximate what is an acceptable level of risk to tolerate rather than rubber sterilized rooms. It is ultimately subjective. But this person used religion as their reason rather than subjective risk analysis, and so I wouldn't tolerate their decision. It is clear they made the decision with reckless disregard for others and not as a result of subjective evaluation of risk.

Even then, if their subjective evaluation is one society vehemently disagrees with, i'm comfortable telling them to get over it, but i'd accept their view as legitimate.

[Ungvarnfjall]

Why is it such an issue? His feet weren't stabbing anyone, and if they stank you can just move to another seat. There doesn't need to be a debate here-the student caused nobody any harm except some stressed lunch lady and maybe a few unfortunate nostrils.

[Xmara]

Did I also mention that the worker told the student that there was also a risk of hot food being dropped on his feet? A small risk, but one nonetheless. Which means he could sue the school if he got burned.

[Farnhamia]

Did I also mention that the worker told the student that there was also a risk of hot food being dropped on his feet? A small risk, but one nonetheless. Which means he could sue the school if he got burned.

Or if he stepped on something sharp and got cut and then germs got in there and ate his foot. Didn't think of that, did he?

Did we find out what religion prohibits the wearing of shoes?

[Borinsa]

Did I also mention that the worker told the student that there was also a risk of hot food being dropped on his feet? A small risk, but one nonetheless. Which means he could sue the school if he got burned.

Or if he stepped on something sharp and got cut and then germs got in there and ate his foot. Didn't think of that, did he?

Did we find out what religion prohibits the wearing of shoes?

I know some asian cultures take their shoes off before entering a home, but they also have a separate pair of shoes for indoors that they put imeadiantly after.

[Farnhamia]

Or if he stepped on something sharp and got cut and then germs got in there and ate his foot. Didn't think of that, did he?

Did we find out what religion prohibits the wearing of shoes?

I know some asian cultures take their shoes off before entering a home, but they also have a separate pair of shoes for indoors that they put imeadiantly after.

That's more cultural than religious. Muslims do remove their footwear when they enter a mosque but certainly don't go without shoes otherwise.