Antifa Attacks Liberal Over American Flag.

[Annihitor the Incred]

How about we don't violate the 1st amendment and just arrest the violent individuals?

The alt-left and the alt-right are deliberately sowing division and toxifying the political climate. If your constitution does not permit disrupting their organizations and physically removing them from the space of political debate, then it is broken.

*tugs at collar in Hoppean*

[The Black Forrest]

Are we going to talk about the incident, or are you going to pathetically make this conversation about me, because you don't have an argument with merit?

Did you know that wearing black and covering your face at a protest are not trademarked by Official Antifa HQ? Anyone can do it.

That's just crazy talk.

[Fahran]

To be fair, there is the Bystander Effect.
If something happens to someone, the larger the group should mean it's easier for that person to get help; however, it's the opposite. The larger the group, the harder it is for someone to receive help because of people thinking that someone else will help because they see how many people are there.

That's accurate, but my suspicion is that many chapters of Antifa would have no moral qualms about beating up someone holding an American flag. It's consistent with their ideological assertion that certain types of speech are intrinsically a form of violence. America represents capitalism and imperialism, both systems of violence. Therefore speech in favor of America is violent and can be met with violence. A significant subsection of Antifa groups, especially the violent ones, hold such beliefs.

I'm not defending someone who does bad things and has bad messages. I haven't defended the two men and their actions.

Do you think violent revolution is a good message?

[The Black Party]

Stay strong OP, and don't change the topic title!

unless the thought forum police comes, then do change the title to comply with any and all regulations

[The Black Party]

Did you know that wearing black and covering your face at a protest are not trademarked by Official Antifa HQ? Anyone can do it.

Theoretically, it should work both ways, but luckily for the modern left, AntiFa has no HQ to begin with.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

Stay strong OP, and don't change the topic title!

Don't worry, I won't.

[Dumb Ideologies]

The alt-left and the alt-right are deliberately sowing division and toxifying the political climate. If your constitution does not permit disrupting their organizations and physically removing them from the space of political debate, then it is broken.

Not much of a political debate if there is no division, is there?

You're thinking too small. Division has no inherent value and it should be minimized. The ultimate political goal is of course the creation of a self-sustaining stable system in which political parties are eliminated and the administration of things is handled by a fixed balance of representatives from the various groups in society and matters of justice handled by people's courts.

Let me know if at any point I'm coming on a tad too strong.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

Are we going to talk about the incident, or are you going to pathetically make this conversation about me, because you don't have an argument with merit?

Did you know that wearing black and covering your face at a protest are not trademarked by Official Antifa HQ? Anyone can do it.

Why don't you name another group on the left that dresses like that? Oh wait, such group does not exist.

[The Burke Islands]

Not much of a political debate if there is no division, is there?

You're thinking too small. Division has no inherent value and it should be minimized. The ultimate political goal is of course the creation of a self-sustaining stable system in which political parties are eliminated and the administration of things is handled by a fixed balance of representatives from the various groups in society and matters of justice handled by people's courts.

Division does have value though, does the term, "echo chamber" ring a bell?

I'm not saying we should go American Civil War 2 Antifa Boogaloo but disagreement breeds innovation.

[Valgora]

To be fair, there is the Bystander Effect.
If something happens to someone, the larger the group should mean it's easier for that person to get help; however, it's the opposite. The larger the group, the harder it is for someone to receive help because of people thinking that someone else will help because they see how many people are there.

That's accurate, but my suspicion is that many chapters of Antifa would have no moral qualms about beating up someone holding an American flag. It's consistent with their ideological assertion that certain types of speech are intrinsically a form of violence. America represents capitalism and imperialism, both acts of violence. Therefore speech in favor of America is violent and can be met with violence. A significant subsection of Antifa groups, especially the violent ones, hold such beliefs.

I don't think Antifa would beat up someone for simply holding an American flag. And I ain't going to judge them based off of the actions of two people.

I haven't heard anyone ever claim that speech is a form of violence (not including someone saying that there is speech that can create violence).

I'm not defending someone who does bad things and has bad messages. I haven't defended the two men and their actions.

Do you think violent revolution is a good message?

Perhaps.
But that doesn't matter in this discussion because we are talking about the actions of two men, who I have not defended.

[The Burke Islands]

Not much of a political debate if there is no division, is there?

Let me know if at any point I'm coming on a tad too strong.

Nah you're good m8.

[The Black Party]

You're thinking too small.

*Reverse Card

Division has no inherent value and it should be minimized. The ultimate political goal is of course the creation of a self-sustaining stable system in which political parties are eliminated and the administration of things is handled by a fixed balance of representatives from the various groups in society and matters of justice handled by people's courts.

You're contradicting yourself. By acknowledging that there needs to be a balance of representatives from various groups is recognizing the natural division of society. People will naturally amalgamate with like-minded people. Social division is inevitable, and if political parties won't be able to participate in any elections, then political factions will replace them.

In addition, natural division creates challenge to authority, and challenge to societal norms. Without division, we'd have no creation or progression.

Division is the base of critical thinking.

[Vassenor]

Stay strong OP, and don't change the topic title!

Don't worry, I won't.

#factsandevidenceareoppression

#listenandbelieve

[Salus Maior]

I think it brings the popular Antifa philosophy of jumping to violent action first to defeat perceived fascists into question, at the very least.

Or, perhaps, it's just a handful of violent people, just like the evidence would suggest.

A "handful of people" that are starting to pop up everywhere.

[Hammer Britannia]

#factsandevidenceareoppression

#listenandbelieve

*Reverse Card

[Dumb Ideologies]

You're thinking too small.

*Reverse Card

Division has no inherent value and it should be minimized. The ultimate political goal is of course the creation of a self-sustaining stable system in which political parties are eliminated and the administration of things is handled by a fixed balance of representatives from the various groups in society and matters of justice handled by people's courts.

You're contradicting yourself. By acknowledging that there needs to be a balance of representatives from various groups is recognizing the natural division of society. People will naturally amalgamate with like-minded people. Social division is inevitable, and if political parties won't be able to participate in any elections, then political factions will replace them.

In addition, natural division creates challenge to authority, and challenge to societal norms. Without division, we'd have no creation or progression.

Division is the base of critical thinking.

Critical thinking was a mistake.

[The Black Party]

Critical thinking was a mistake.

marry me

[The Burke Islands]

*Reverse Card


You're contradicting yourself. By acknowledging that there needs to be a balance of representatives from various groups is recognizing the natural division of society. People will naturally amalgamate with like-minded people. Social division is inevitable, and if political parties won't be able to participate in any elections, then political factions will replace them.

In addition, natural division creates challenge to authority, and challenge to societal norms. Without division, we'd have no creation or progression.

Division is the base of critical thinking.

Critical thinking was a mistake.

Ok that one was powerful.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

Don't worry, I won't.

#factsandevidenceareoppression

#listenandbelieve

#Imtriggeredthatanyonewouldcalloutantifa

[The Huskar Social Union]

Twats did twat things, as they will tend to do.

Hope they get punished for it

[Hammer Britannia]

*Reverse Card


You're contradicting yourself. By acknowledging that there needs to be a balance of representatives from various groups is recognizing the natural division of society. People will naturally amalgamate with like-minded people. Social division is inevitable, and if political parties won't be able to participate in any elections, then political factions will replace them.

In addition, natural division creates challenge to authority, and challenge to societal norms. Without division, we'd have no creation or progression.

Division is the base of critical thinking.

Critical thinking was a mistake.

^^^

[South Acren]

As my Grandfather says, "Anyone who wants to disrespect our flag can go to hell. And when I get there they have something worse to look forward to." I agree with him completely.

[Fahran]

I don't think Antifa would beat up someone for simply holding an American flag. And I ain't going to judge them based off of the actions of two people.

Why not? Antifa is not an association of liberal groups as a rule. Most of the groups that employ the name are explicitly anarchist, communist, or socialist in their politics. You're more likely to see a hammer and sickle or a black flag than the Stars and Stripes fluttering above their rallies. They have gotten into brawls with BLM activists and they've beaten up conservative students in the past. The organizations in Portland are especially vehement and honestly a police crackdown is long over due.

Source.
Source.

I haven't heard anyone ever claim that speech is a form of violence (not including someone saying that there is speech that can create violence).

Antifa quite explicitly opposes unconditional free speech. That's the only way their actions make sense. Here's a source from the horse's mouth - same Dartmouth professor.

Source.

Perhaps.
But that doesn't matter in this discussion because we are talking about the actions of two men, who I have not defended.

We're talking about the overarching message as well because it can be interpreted as condoning their behavior.

[Vassenor]

#factsandevidenceareoppression

#listenandbelieve

#Imtriggeredthatanyonewouldcalloutantifa

Still trying to shovel words into my mouth again, I see.

[Northeast American Federation]

>a few Nazi assholes go to Charlottesville, one of said assholes drives into people
"All right wingers are Nazi racists who want to drive cars into people! They must all be driven from society immediately for being fascists!"

>a couple of Antifa assholes assault a guy with an American flag because they think he's a fascist
"Well not all Antifa do this, so you can't say Antifa did it when really it was only those two people. And it's okay anyway because fascism must be stopped by any means necessary. And why are we still talking about this so long after the fact? This is all deflection from the fact that all right wingers are Nazi racists....."