Antifa Attacks Liberal Over American Flag.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

I'm really over this mentality of "One cannot be a fascist unless they are literally rounding up people for death camps and only if it's the 1940's." Meanwhile the likes of Hillary Clinton who won't even support a living wage or universal health care are called "far left."

People call Republicans far right so it's only fair.

[Fahran]

People call Republicans far right so it's only fair.

Republicans are too far to the left. :^)

[Saranidia]

I'm really over this mentality of "One cannot be a fascist unless they are literally rounding up people for death camps and only if it's the 1940's." Meanwhile the likes of Hillary Clinton who won't even support a living wage or universal health care are called "far left."

People call Republicans far right so it's only fair.

That's because American politics is right-wing slanted.

[Fahran]

That's because American politics is right-wing slanted.

> Based wholly on liberalism
> Right-wing slanted.

[Thanatttynia]

That's because American politics is right-wing slanted.

> Based wholly on liberalism
> Right-wing slanted.

Relative to the rest of the Western world, it's further to the right. Modern democratic governance is based wholly on liberalism worldwide, so it's not massively useful to pretend there can't be variation within that between countries.

[Phoenicaea]

Tangentially related but on the whole 'antifa' thing...

'that s the good thing of trade, I suppose. the world gets shuffled'

[Thanatttynia]

Tangentially related but on the whole 'antifa' thing...

'that s the good thing of trade, I suppose. the world gets shuffled'

Not sure I follow?

[Fahran]

Relative to the rest of the Western world, it's further to the right.

So we're going to limit the political spectrum exclusively to the Overton window of liberal democracies? That's really the only context in which the United States comes across as right-wing. If you expand the political spectrum to include Latin America, Africa, and Asia, we probably wind up falling on the liberal side of things given our social, religious, and cultural attitudes. China and India are arguably extremely right-wing compared to us.

Modern democratic governance is based wholly on liberalism worldwide, so it's not massively useful to pretend there can't be variation within that between countries.

Again, this only works if we exclude a lot of illiberal countries.

[Phoenicaea]

say, fascism is a government form, based on the hierarchic adhibition of resources which are seized from an entity, this consireded to be outside the 'core country'

the resources are stolen either from a part of the inhabitants, or from other countries. so what fascism necessarily needs is corporativism and warmongering society.

these are the essentials summarized.

historically, I agree fascism should be said Italian and Japanese regimes, and not the other classical military dictatorships (Spain, Chile eccetera).

nevertheless, what fascism -needs- culturally is propaganda based on the idea of an unitarian body, without opposing voices.

so it is accurate to say some rethoric (Trump, Erdogan) is fascist

[Thanatttynia]

Relative to the rest of the Western world, it's further to the right.

So we're going to limit the political spectrum exclusively to the Overton window of liberal democracies? That's really the only context in which the United States comes across as right-wing. If you expand the political spectrum to include Latin America, Africa, and Asia, we probably wind up falling on the liberal side of things given our social, religious, and cultural attitudes. China and India are arguably extremely right-wing compared to us.

America is a Western nation. I take your point about some of the larger countries in Latin America, but you can't really compare it to any country in Asia or Africa, they're too dissimilar to meaningfully compare. It's not conducive to a greater understanding of America to say it's further to the left than Saudi Arabia. Of the countries America is most like - other countries in the West - American political culture is further to the right than any I know of.

Modern democratic governance is based wholly on liberalism worldwide, so it's not massively useful to pretend there can't be variation within that between countries.

Again, this only works if we exclude a lot of illiberal countries.

I mean, point to me to a democracy which is not based on liberal values? The modern idea of democracy is a liberal idea.

[Fahran]

America is a Western nation. I take your point about some of the larger countries in Latin America, but you can't really compare it to any country in Asia or Africa, they're too dissimilar to meaningfully compare. It's not conducive to a greater understanding of America to say it's further to the left than Saudi Arabia. Of the countries America is most like - other countries in the West - American political culture is further to the right than any I know of.

That's still somewhat debatable, especially given how many European and Latin American countries are lurching to the right. Brazil's current government is more right-wing than any government we've had since Roosevelt, despite its economic liberalism. Poland, Hungary, and even Italy are arguably more right-wing in some respects than us as well. We also have to keep in mind that, unlike France and Greece, we have no competitive hard-line nationalist parties - we instead have two vaguely liberal parties that promote economic liberalism and discuss freedom more often than the nation. Japan, Singapore, Taiwan, and South Korea are far more insulated as well - even despite absorbing influences from us.

I mean, point to me to a democracy which is not based on liberal values? The modern idea of democracy is a liberal idea.

Hungary, Poland, Brazil, arguably Italy, etc.

[Kubumba Tribe]

So you want to demonise anyone who calls themselves anti-fascist based on the actions of exactly two people?

Two people?
The thing is, this happens regularly. Antifa CONSTANTLY attacks and injures people during protests. Remember the bike lock guy who bashed a guy on the head? Or when Antifa attacked a Trump supporter in Washington with homemade shields, then proceeded to beat him down?
This junk happens on the regular.

Which groups are you talking about?

For a terrorist organization Anti-Fascist group

*groups

Is that how you came to the conclusion that I support terrorism, even though I've never said that in any thread?

---

Why you gotta be fake news?

I'm sorry. Let me change that.

What I meant to say is that Antifa is a Anti-Fascist terrorist group.

Antifa is NOT a group. It's a social movement consisted of many different organisations and people. So now you have to prove that every single group is a terrorist.

antifa is a group

No it's not.

Right. I didn't call you a fascist or express support for terrorism. I said that you're probably a fascist if, that word is important, you believe that supporting fascism and opposing fascism are morally equivalent. And based on that you have decided that I support terrorism.

This is better than the time someone decided that I support ISIS because I called them ISIS.

---

But they don't. They're not trying to run the US. They're not trying to pass laws. They're not trying to enact policies. They're just trying to stop fascism. I wouldn't even say that they demand that fascist stop doing fascism, since very obviously they mean to stop fascist directly.

---

What's the seventh word of the OP?

Except they are trying to pass laws and enact policies. They are trying to run the US.

Pretty sure there's no antifa dude/dudette in office.

And it's funny you think running as a candidate is the only way to brute force a political stance. It's almost as if the entire definition of terrorism just doesn't even exist in that case....Huh.

You claim that antifa is running America. You were asked for proof and you have not done so. So until you do that your claim is wrong.

You are arguing that there should be no direct action against fascists so long as fascists aren't in power. But if fascists do take power, then they will be the state and all direct action against them will be condemned as illegal. You may or may not realize but you are essentially admitting you don't think fighting fascists is acceptable under any circumstance.

Protesting them when out of power is acceptable. If they gain power then it's ok to fight them. This is the United States, not Nazi Germany. Also, considering the fact that they now view our flag as fascist indicates that they are fighting for communism, not just against fascism. Commie violence isn't better than fashie violence last time I checked.

Calling the US flag a fascist symbol =/= communism support

Those rights only exist at the behest of the government. An entirely fascist government would have no issue passing amendment after amendment until those rights disappear.

Those rights exist in accordance with the Constitution, which the government must abide by. The Constitution cannot be tossed aside. And an entirely fascist government that cares to try can find itself hiding behind desks amidst a hail of gunfire. These rights do not exist because the government says so. It exists because I and every other American says so. And the government doesn't get the option nor the opportunity to take away those rights. Ever.

If a fascist government were to take it could probably happen. Or we end up like Syria.

Just like Antifa is nothing but idiots

Depends on the group.

Antifa is a terrorist organization

No it's not. It's a social movement consisted of many different organisations and peoples.

terrorist

Depends on the group and person.

I'm getting a little annoyed with the way every idiot that isn't right wing is called "antifa" despite that organisation not actually existing.

It's from my source, and not every left-winger who is in the wrong is called antifa. Also, antifa attends a lot of protests and riots for an organization or group that does not exist.

Antifa isn't an organization. It's a social movement consisted of many different organisations and peoples.

"It's an organization without a proper structure so it tots doesn't exist at all despite people revendicating themselves as being part from it!"
Stop with that fucking meme fam, no one's buying it.

Agreed, just because a group has no formal leader doesn't mean that they are not at fault for their actions.

No one said that.

I don't think anyone is arguing that just cause they aren't really an organisation that they literally cannot be faulted. You can still point at a guy who smashed a window and say "he's at fault for smashing that window".

Edit: Just makes it a bit hard to swallow when you then go on about the evils of the Window Smasher Organisation^TM and their grand plot to smash all the windows

Your Edit is kind of a straw man, I guess?

We're not really saying that. Antifa is an obvious group (despite lack of proper organization) that does Organize Antifa rallies and has 'members'.

Antifa isn't an organization nor a group. It's a social movement consisted of many different organisations, groups and peoples.

Saying Antifa is tolerant would be like saying not breathing is the entire point of lungs.

Yeah, I agree. It would be pretty inaccurate.

how is this thread 20 pages long when literally all that needed to be said was "the american flag is a fascist symbol."

It's not.

how is this thread 20 pages long when literally all that needed to be said was "Antifa is a fascist symbol."

Fix'd.

No you didn't.

No.

the holocaust & the nuremberg race laws were directly inspired by u.s. treatment of native americans and other minorities and the post-ww2 c.i.a. has been the single most responsible actor in the proliferation of third-world fascist régimes, but ok

That doesn't make America fascist. And do you have proof that the holocaust and those race laws were directly inspired by the US mistreatment of Native Americans?

this is irrelevant. america is the system that hitler cited as a role model.

Prove it.

She's right.

Actually communism advocates for a stateless and moneyless society, so there wouldn't be a party nor a dictatorship. Communist societies also work by cooperation so there would be a grassroots, direct sort of democracy.

We aren't discussing a militant group tho.

Antifa isn't an organization nor a group. It's a social movement consisted of many different organisations, groups and people.