Antifa Attacks Liberal Over American Flag.

[Alvecia]

how is this thread 20 pages long when literally all that needed to be said was "the american flag is a fascist symbol."

Welcome to the next 20 pages

[Ifreann]

I don't disagree. I think violence is very rarely a good idea, especially in politics in an ostensible democracy where your aim is to get people to support you. But I think there is a place for countering violence with violence (i.e. in armed resistance to a fascist government which is in power, or, before that, in defending yourself or vulnerable people from violent fascists - two things which are much more easily foreseeable in Europe than in America.)

My point was more that I think trying to literally 'fight back' against an imaginary American fascism is unnecessary and self-defeating, especially when looked at in the absence of meaningful self-reflection about American racism, than it was about 'fighting back' being that useful in Europe. Fascism is a hero/death cult, making almost all physical opposition self-defeating, which is one reason its so hard to fight back against it (and a reason the onus is on us to actively prevent its rise.)

When it comes down to it, controlled violence is reasonable. Violence against a legitimate threat is reasonable. We didn't just drop two atomic bombs on Japan because some yokel was like "Hey, wanna see a magic trick?"

I mean back in the war there was a LEGITIMATE threat of fascist militant power rolling through the European nations like an absolute truck. A man was leading a full force regime to drag people from their homes and send them off to a Nazi black site. Nations were getting annexed or decimated by a continually moving army and lots of other people were becoming affected. To say that there's a legitimate threat in the US of Nazi's comparable to that of World War II is just madness. At most we have some hillbilly neckbeard balls deep in a pig waving a Nazi flag yelling "ErH GeRd KeEl JuUz!"

Yeah, Nazis aren't a threat until they have already conquered Europe. It's illegitimate to try to defend yourself against Nazis until they have the complete power of the state backing them.

Like seriously...What are they going to do? I get not allowing hate speech to have a platform but why can't we go back to how things were with the KKK and the Westboro Baptist Church? Why can't we just laugh at these people, call them morons, and not go around throwing molotovs and bike locks and causing property damage? What happened to the good old days, man...?

When people just laughed at the Nazis, they took power and started a war that killed millions. It's stupid to want to bury your head in the sand and give them every opportunity to come to power again, because if you wait that long it will be too late and you'll have to have another war.

[Fahran]

"Stacy said my hair looked stupid."

Plot-Twist: Stacy did nothing wrong.

And, no, I'm not talking about anyone in particular. I mean in the hypothetical.

how is this thread 20 pages long when literally all that needed to be said was "the american flag is a fascist symbol."

No.

When people just laughed at the Nazis, they took power and started a war that killed millions. It's stupid to want to bury your head in the sand and give them every opportunity to come to power again, because if you wait that long it will be too late and you'll have to have another war.

Socialists and communists actively fought against the Nazis in the streets. There were probably hundreds of street battles and isolated acts of political violence in the waning days of the Weimar Republic, with many fearing that Bolshevik-aligned groups might come to power in Germany.

[Ifreann]

When people just laughed at the Nazis, they took power and started a war that killed millions. It's stupid to want to bury your head in the sand and give them every opportunity to come to power again, because if you wait that long it will be too late and you'll have to have another war.

Socialists and communists actively fought against the Nazis in the streets. There were probably hundreds of street battles and isolated acts of political violence in the waning days of the Weimar Republic, with many fearing that Bolshevik-aligned groups might come to power in Germany.

Those evil terrorists, trying to keep Hitler from taking power. They're the real fascists.

[Harelia]

"Stacy said my hair looked stupid."

Plot-Twist: Stacy did nothing wrong.

And, no, I'm not talking about anyone in particular. I mean in the hypothetical.

Plot twist: Stacy was right leaning, which makes her a Russian bot.

Also the entire elementary school is a police-state.

Play time is communism. And nap time is a republican propaganda campaign designed to make people 'woke.'

[Harelia]

how is this thread 20 pages long when literally all that needed to be said was "Antifa is a fascist symbol."

Fix'd.

[Ifreann]

how is this thread 20 pages long when literally all that needed to be said was "Antifa is a fascist symbol."

Fix'd.

Don't change quotes like that, it's against the rules. If you want to make a "Fix'd" joke, use the strike tags to leave in what the person said so it's obvious what you've changed.

[Fahran]

Those evil terrorists, trying to keep Hitler from taking power. They're the real fascists.

Considering some of them wanted Stalin in power over the elected government, yeah, they were. Opposing Nazis doesn't automatically make you a good guy.

[Ifreann]

Those evil terrorists, trying to keep Hitler from taking power. They're the real fascists.

Considering some of them wanted Stalin in power over the elected government, yeah, they were. Opposing Nazis doesn't automatically make you a good guy.

[The Evergreen Dreamscapes]

how is this thread 20 pages long when literally all that needed to be said was "the american flag is a fascist symbol."

No.

the holocaust & the nuremberg race laws were directly inspired by u.s. treatment of native americans and other minorities and the post-ww2 c.i.a. has been the single most responsible actor in the proliferation of third-world fascist régimes, but ok

[Fahran]

(Image)

Inb4 Stalin did nothing wrong.

[Ifreann]

(Image)

Inb4 Stalin did nothing wrong.

Does this look like the face of evil?

[Fahran]

the holocaust & the nuremberg race laws were directly inspired by u.s. treatment of native americans and other minorities

There existed numerous European precedents for that as well given that Jewish emancipation did not occur until the nineteenth century in most of Europe and practically all European colonies had racial caste systems in place. In any case, racism is not fascism. Why? Because not all fascists were/are racists and not all racists were/are fascists.

the post-ww2 c.i.a. has been the single most responsible actor in the proliferation of third-world fascist régimes, but ok

Not all dictatorships are fascist. In some instances, the dictators we supported explicitly cracked down on quasi-fascists like the Peronists. So Videla is a good guy. Clearly.

Does this look like the face of evil?

I'd low key give young Stalin my phone number after three tequila shots.

[The Evergreen Dreamscapes]

the holocaust & the nuremberg race laws were directly inspired by u.s. treatment of native americans and other minorities

There existed numerous European precedents for that as well given that Jewish emancipation did not occur until the nineteenth century in most of Europe and practically all European colonies had racial caste systems in place.

this is irrelevant. america is the system that hitler cited as a role model.

In any case, racism is not fascism. Why? Because not all fascists were/are racists and not all racists were/are fascists.

as you so wisely note, there are different kinds of racism. concentration camps and eugenics is the fascist kind.
also lol@ "not all fascists were/are racists"

the post-ww2 c.i.a. has been the single most responsible actor in the proliferation of third-world fascist régimes, but ok

Not all dictatorships are fascist. In some instances, the dictators we supported explicitly cracked down on quasi-fascists like the Peronists. So Videla is a good guy. Clearly.

"sometimes we also supported nonfascist dictatorships in addition to all the fascist ones!!" isn't really a useful argument.

[Fahran]

this is irrelevant. america is the system that hitler cited as a role model.

That doesn't make America fascist anymore than it makes Martin Luther or Robespierre fascist. I'll point out that America isn't even uniquely racist as a country. It's actually one of the more racially tolerant societies in the world. We simply happen to have more racial diversity and thus more overt racial tension.

Source.

as you so wisely note, there are different kinds of racism. concentration camps and eugenics is the fascist kind.
also lol@ "not all fascists were/are racists"

I invite you to uncover a genuine, racist quote from Giovanni Gentile, the philosopher who originated the Doctrine of Fascism.

"sometimes we also supported nonfascist dictatorships in addition to all the fascist ones!!" isn't really a useful argument.

Name a fascist dictator that the United States supported please.

[Caldreania]

how is this thread 20 pages long when literally all that needed to be said was "the american flag is a fascist symbol."

Not sure if this is a bad attempt at trolling or a statement of pure ignorance and detachment from reality, but okay, I'll bite.

How is the US flag a "fascist" symbol?

[Harelia]

how is this thread 20 pages long when literally all that needed to be said was "the american flag is a fascist symbol."

Not sure if this is a bad attempt at trolling or a statement of pure ignorance and detachment from reality, but okay, I'll bite.

How is the US flag a "fascist" symbol?

Are you truly willing to gamble on that fart?

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Name a fascist dictator that the United States supported please.

Sorry to be a devil's advocate here but : Leopoldo Galtieri

how is this thread 20 pages long when literally all that needed to be said was "the american flag is a fascist symbol."

Ah yes, that's why America along with the other allys stormed the beaches of Normandy on the 6th of June 1944.


It's also why the Screaming Eagles refused to surrender to the Nazis and killed all the Nazis they could see.

Because America was fascist. Perfect logic.*

*Doesn't make any sense whatsoever

[Caldreania]

Socialists and communists actively fought against the Nazis in the streets. There were probably hundreds of street battles and isolated acts of political violence in the waning days of the Weimar Republic, with many fearing that Bolshevik-aligned groups might come to power in Germany.

Those evil terrorists, trying to keep Hitler from taking power. They're the real fascists.

They weren't simply trying to keep Hitler from taking power, but they wanted it for themselves. It is stunning that people forget the German Civil War happened, that the Communists are to blame, and that the chaos is caused in turn helped the world's most hated failed artists to come to power.

Aside the racial genocide, which would have been replaced by classicide, how are the Communists any different? History showed us that no matter how much they try to appear different and challenge each other, Fascist and Communist ideologies hardly differ in practice, ending up being single party, militarized, illiberal, anti-democratic, autocratic dictatorships.

Name a fascist dictator that the United States supported please.

To be 100% fair: Leopoldo Galtieri

To be fair, a military dictator does not have to be a fascist. In the case of Galtieri, a quick search reveals that during his reign, government industries got privatized and he even loosened laws in regards to anti-government protests (unless I got something wrong).
As far as I know, Fascism is based on the government at least controlling the economy, and usually speaking ill of a leader or government in such a regime does not end well.

Galtieri, a junta dictator, as such got the US backing only for his anti-communism, which, at any time of the Cold War, was pivotal.

[Ifreann]

Those evil terrorists, trying to keep Hitler from taking power. They're the real fascists.

They weren't simply trying to keep Hitler from taking power, but they wanted it for themselves. It is stunning that people forget the German Civil War happened, that the Communists are to blame, and that the chaos is caused in turn helped the world's most hated failed artists to come to power.

Hitler came to power in the 30s because of the November Revolution in 1918? How's that?

Aside the racial genocide, which would have been replaced by classicide, how are the Communists any different?

I'm not aware of any genocide of the bourgeoisie occurring in the Weimar Republic. History showed us that no matter how much they try to appear different and challenge each other, Fascist and Communist ideologies hardly differ in practice, ending up being single party, militarized, illiberal, anti-democratic, autocratic dictatorships. [/quote]
Militarised, illiberal, anti-democratic, autocratic dictatorships like the Weimar Republic?

[Estanglia]

To be 100% fair: Leopoldo Galtieri

To be fair, a military dictator does not have to be a fascist. In the case of Galtieri, a quick search reveals that during his reign, government industries got privatized and he even loosened laws in regards to anti-government protests (unless I got something wrong).
As far as I know, Fascism is based on the government at least controlling the economy, and usually speaking ill of a leader or government in such a regime does not end well.

Galtieri, a junta dictator, as such got the US backing only for his anti-communism, which, at any time of the Cold War, was pivotal.

And even if he was fascist, supporting one fascist on the basis that he was anti-communist doesn't inherently make America fascist.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

To be 100% fair: Leopoldo Galtieri

To be fair, a military dictator does not have to be a fascist. In the case of Galtieri, a quick search reveals that during his reign, government industries got privatized and he even loosened laws in regards to anti-government protests (unless I got something wrong).
As far as I know, Fascism is based on the government at least controlling the economy, and usually speaking ill of a leader or government in such a regime does not end well.

Galtieri, a junta dictator, as such got the US backing only for his anti-communism, which, at any time of the Cold War, was pivotal.

On that last point, the actions of Batallón de Inteligencia 601 would count for speaking ill of a leader not ending well.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

To be fair, a military dictator does not have to be a fascist. In the case of Galtieri, a quick search reveals that during his reign, government industries got privatized and he even loosened laws in regards to anti-government protests (unless I got something wrong).
As far as I know, Fascism is based on the government at least controlling the economy, and usually speaking ill of a leader or government in such a regime does not end well.

Galtieri, a junta dictator, as such got the US backing only for his anti-communism, which, at any time of the Cold War, was pivotal.

And even if he was fascist, supporting one fascist on the basis that he was anti-communist doesn't inherently make America fascist.

Of course it doesn't make America fascist. Just wanted to bring up a point in history where the US did indeed support a far right military dictatorship.

[Nakena]

To be fair, a military dictator does not have to be a fascist. In the case of Galtieri, a quick search reveals that during his reign, government industries got privatized and he even loosened laws in regards to anti-government protests (unless I got something wrong).
As far as I know, Fascism is based on the government at least controlling the economy, and usually speaking ill of a leader or government in such a regime does not end well.

Galtieri, a junta dictator, as such got the US backing only for his anti-communism, which, at any time of the Cold War, was pivotal.

On that last point, the actions of Batallón de Inteligencia 601 would count for speaking ill of a leader not ending well.

Fairly certain this was already started under Videla. (The Guy who stole the Babies)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jorge_Raf ... violations

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

On that last point, the actions of Batallón de Inteligencia 601 would count for speaking ill of a leader not ending well.

Fairly certain this was already started under Videla. (The Guy who stole the Babies)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jorge_Raf ... violations

He still controlled 601 for a period of time. I doubt that Leopoldo was a saint and didn't use 601 to get rid of anyone he didn't like.

Just to reiterate: Of course this event doesn't make America fascist.