Antifa Attacks Liberal Over American Flag.

[Rojava Free State]

You are deflecting by questioning the age of the story instead of discussing the story itself.

I'm questioning the use of the story as a starting point for a discussion on political violence by virtue of it being both old and minor.

For a second I thought this happened like today. I had my popcorn ready and everything for the latest episode of disasterpiece theater, but disappointingly it was old news

[Scomagia]

You are deflecting by questioning the age of the story instead of discussing the story itself.

I'm questioning the use of the story as a starting point for a discussion on political violence by virtue of it being both old and minor.

And it may not have been premeditated but it sure as fuck was an act of political violence.

It was a heated gaming moment :^)

Three months isn't old, nor does being old preclude a story from being worthy of discussion. It wasn't minor, either. Battery and potentially attempted murder committed for political reasons isn't minor.

[Ifreann]

I've been to one protest in my life, and that was against increases to fees for third level education. But somehow I am part of an American terrorist organisation.


Wait, is LNA saying I'm a terrorist?

---

I know that Hope Not Hate is not the type of anti-fascism you want to talk about.

Hope Not Hate has actually done some doxxing stuff iirc and that is definitely an issue.

But it isn't scary violence so let's just ignore them.

Antifa isn't communist.

What would you say it is then?

Anti-fascist. Anti-fascism doesn't involve enacting policies or standing for election or anything like that. It's just keeping fascists from doing fascism. Obviously communists and anarchists and various other leftists are the ones who are going to do that, but that doesn't mean that antifa is communist or anarchist.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

Wait, is LNA saying I'm a terrorist?

I didn't say you were a terrorist yourself. By "your", I meant a group you support or seem to support.

[Liriena]

t isn't a minor story.

Yes, it's a minor story. It is for the purposes of making a broad discussion about political violence.

A single case of battery and potentially attempted murder, specially when it's not premeditated or really organized, is a very sorry sample if you want to talk about political violence in a broad context. And it becomes even worse when the case is not even recent enough that its immediacy would justify intense attention. OP might as well have made the thread about Richard Spencer getting punched last year.

[Kubumba Tribe]

Wait, is LNA saying I'm a terrorist?

I didn't say you were a terrorist yourself. By "your", I meant a group you support or seem to support.

Like I said Ifreann, welcome to the club.

[Fahran]

We're talking about the context in which the implicit argument is being made raising a red flag in terms of OP's honesty in their approach.

That's an ad hominem more than anything else and it has next to no relevance in a conversation about the efficacy of using the physical violence of left-wing radicals as a political strategy. It's rather like how white nationalists bring up Holodomor when I'm talking about how the Holocaust was bad. It's a completely separate discussion meant to draw attention away from the one raised by the OP.

I deplore any violence that is not in self-defense as a matter of principle.

Same. Political violence outside the apparatus of the state without a clear moral imperative is generally immoral.

However, I also acknowledge that the liberal and conservative condemnation of political violence is itself hypocritical and ineffective from a hystorical perspective.

I'm inclined to disagree. In fact, left-wing violence and the threat of violent revolution were pivotal in the ascent of fascist movements in Europe precisely because they undermined conservative and liberal states in such away as to make it possible. It's not wrong to insist that violence require some justification beyond not liking someone else's opinion. There are better ways to defeat fascism than by brawling with fascists who have next to no political power.

Right-wingers march with firearms all the time.

Generally as a symbol of the 2nd Amendment.

Sometimes, a right-winger will shoot innocent people.

Yes, but generally not at the sorts of protests you were referencing. Those are almost always peaceful.

And yet, would you not find it suspicious if I suddenly decided to start a thread on one minor, non-lethal incident involving an armed right winger, specially in a week dominated by, say, deadly premeditated left-wing terrorism?

I might, but I would still condemn that particular example of right-wing violence and the arguments that rationalized it.

[Liriena]

My opinion of this is that the people who orchestrated this attack are little more than violent thugs with a veneer of political activism

This is little more than virtue signalling. You are not saying anything that most people would find controversial or even particularly meaningful.

"Political violence bad", is a very basic hegemonic element in liberal democracy.

and the acceptance of violence like this if you're on the "correct" side has empowered violent thugs to expand the definition of "fascist" to include anything they don't like

How many "violent thugs"? How has it "empowered" them to "expand the definition" of fascism to include "anything they don't like"? And what exactly do you mean by "anything they don't like"? Do you have some special insight into their thinking or is this second-hand guessing of their worldview?

and violently attack, this time striking a liberal.

"This time", huh?

If you are implying a broader problem, actually demonstrate that broader problem.

Is an attack like this over an American flag acceptable? What are your thoughts NSG? I say it isn’t.

Attacking the American flag itself is fine by me. Fabric doesn't have rights. Attacking the person holding the flag tho... :/

[The Lone Alliance]

Is anyone really surprised that to a group that hates the US and believe that will think that the symbol of an American Flag, is a fascist symbol?

[Fahran]

We live in a society where a war is taking place between people who burn our flag, and people who claim to love it but may as well burn it too since they think the current president can just abolish all of our rights. And the real patriots stand by and watch as the crazies fight for our country, and no matter which side wins, we lose.

My desire to see Mattis stage a coup and imprison dissident elements grows by the day. :^)

American Aurelian when?

[Skyhooked]

You posted a months old story about violence by unidentified people and called it "Antifa attacks liberal over American Flag". Stop pushing fascist propaganda.

I see that you're not even going to condemn this incident, and you're going to go to the end of the universe to defend your group no matter what.

Antifa attacks someone for carrying american flag, huh? Yeah, they can get pretty aggressive sometimes, but that is just too far fetched. I personally suspect some sort of false flag operation.

Not everything abhorrent that your group does is due to a false flag operation.

Yeah, not everything abhorrent... but this just looks too fishy for me. Or perhaps you are right and it's just a case of good ol' Hanlon's razor and that guy just got too overzealous.

Two possibilities are equally possible in our crazy world.

[Ifreann]

It would be so much easier if I could just drop this link, but no one's going to watch an hour long YouTube video, so I'll have to make doomed attempts to paraphrase Olly's points, over and over and over, all while people think that I'm supporting terrorism.

[Vassenor]

Is anyone really surprised that to a group that hates the US and believe that will think that the symbol of an American Flag, is a fascist symbol?

>Hates the US

...That's a bit of a stretch there matey.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

I didn't say you were a terrorist yourself. By "your", I meant a group you support or seem to support.

Like I said Ifreann, welcome to the club.

Kubumba, I don't recall implying that you support terrorism, and if I said that anywhere (which I doubt) then I take it back.

[The Lone Alliance]

Is anyone really surprised that to a group that hates the US and believe that will think that the symbol of an American Flag, is a fascist symbol?

>Hates the US

...That's a bit of a stretch there matey.

The US is the ultimate symbol of global capitalism and has pretty much made it their life's purpose to destabilize and destroy every Socialist regime on the planet... if you're a Socialist why wouldn't you be a little bit hateful towards the US?

Or at least US foreign policy?

[LiberNovusAmericae]

Is anyone really surprised that to a group that hates the US and believe that will think that the symbol of an American Flag, is a fascist symbol?

>Hates the US

...That's a bit of a stretch there matey.

Well actions speak louder than words, and members of antifa committing battery against someone over an American flag does seem to indicate a deep loathing for America.

[Fahran]

It would be so much easier if I could just drop this link, but no one's going to watch an hour long YouTube video, so I'll have to make doomed attempts to paraphrase Olly's points, over and over and over, all while people think that I'm supporting terrorism.

I'll watch it, Ifreann, but I make no promises about an immediate response. I will begin by stating that I'm skeptical that I'll agree with the arguments made therein. I disagree with practically everyone on NS and in the United States as it stands. Really, only the left-wing nationalists and some paleoconservatives employ forms of logic similar to mine.

[Scomagia]

t isn't a minor story.

Yes, it's a minor story. It is for the purposes of making a broad discussion about political violence.

A single case of battery and potentially attempted murder, specially when it's not premeditated or really organized, is a very sorry sample if you want to talk about political violence in a broad context. And it becomes even worse when the case is not even recent enough that its immediacy would justify intense attention. OP might as well have made the thread about Richard Spencer getting punched last year.

It's not minor any more than that jerkass that ran somebody over in Charlottesville was a minor incident. Why are you trying to minimize this?

[Holy Tedalonia]

>Hates the US

...That's a bit of a stretch there matey.

The US is the ultimate symbol of global capitalism and has pretty much made it their life's purpose to destabilize and destroy every Socialist regime on the planet... if you're a Socialist why wouldn't you be a little bit hateful towards the US?

Or at least US foreign policy?

Not just socialist regimes. It’s fair to say that anybody directly south of the US hates us. Our meddling has only made South America worse off.

[The Lone Alliance]

>Hates the US

...That's a bit of a stretch there matey.

Well actions speak louder than words, and members of antifa committing battery against someone over an American flag does seem to indicate a deep loathing for America.

I highly doubt a group that likes to state things like "ANOTHER WORLD IS POSSIBLE" support the "Current World" of the US constitution and the US system of government.

[Fahran]

Not just socialist regimes. It’s fair to say that anybody directly south of the US hates us. Our meddling has only made South America worse off.

Honestly, South America outside of Chile was always going to be relatively terrible and the tradition of caudillos and juntas predates the Cold War by about a century.

[Kubumba Tribe]

Like I said Ifreann, welcome to the club.

Kubumba, I don't recall implying that you support terrorism, and if I said that anywhere (which I doubt) then I take it back.

Oh no I wasn't you did. Someone else did (actually I think it was 2), that's why I "welcomed" Ifreann "into the club".

>Hates the US

...That's a bit of a stretch there matey.

The US is the ultimate symbol of global capitalism and has pretty much made it their life's purpose to destabilize and destroy every Socialist regime on the planet... if you're a Socialist why wouldn't you be a little bit hateful towards the US?

Or at least US foreign policy?

Heck, I'm not even a socialist and I hate the US lol.

[Liriena]

Yes, it's a minor story. It is for the purposes of making a broad discussion about political violence.

A single case of battery and potentially attempted murder, specially when it's not premeditated or really organized, is a very sorry sample if you want to talk about political violence in a broad context. And it becomes even worse when the case is not even recent enough that its immediacy would justify intense attention. OP might as well have made the thread about Richard Spencer getting punched last year.

It's not minor any more than that jerkass that ran somebody over in Charlottesville was a minor incident. Why are you trying to minimize this?

That jerkwad actually killed someone. It wasn't "potentially" attempted murder. It was a very successful attempt at mass murder. It wasn't a stupid fight between one guy and a handful of shitheads that got out of hand. It was one guy using his car as a weapon against dozens of innocent people.

[Holy Tedalonia]

Not just socialist regimes. It’s fair to say that anybody directly south of the US hates us. Our meddling has only made South America worse off.

Honestly, South America outside of Chile was always going to be relatively terrible and the tradition of caudillos and juntas predates the Cold War by about a century.

Our meddling predates the Cold War about half a century. Cold War only intensified our interventionalism.

[Holy Tedalonia]

The US is the ultimate symbol of global capitalism and has pretty much made it their life's purpose to destabilize and destroy every Socialist regime on the planet... if you're a Socialist why wouldn't you be a little bit hateful towards the US?

Or at least US foreign policy?

Heck, I'm not even a socialist and I hate the US lol.

You live in the USA right? Let me write your deportation letters for you. If you hate America; you don’t deserve to live in it.