Antifa Attacks Liberal Over American Flag.

[Harelia]

It's almost as if we got rid of it. Try harder plz.

"The government can't ever take away our rights"
"They did before"
"W-well they gave them back eventually!"

I never said they can't take the rights of the people away. They can. But they can't get away with it. That's why a second amendment exists.

Again. Try harder.

[Harelia]

If that's the only argument left that you have I'd say just accept you're unable to refute and just log out, my dude. Because your attempts at grasping ain't even earning you shit.

Who's arguing? I'm agreeing with you. The wanton murder of innocent black people by angry mobs just couldn't happen in America. The people wouldn't have it. It's impossible.

You've opened my eyes, Harelia. How could I ever have believed in lynchings in America? I've been the victim of Russian propaganda.

"ArGuMeNt FrOm IgNoRaNcE!"

Mad cuz bad.

[Alvecia]

I find that there are very few cases where a slope has actually become slippery.
Nor do I find it a particularly illiberal perspective to acknowledge that beyond the hard sciences, no rule is universal. Context is King.

Ignoring a problem is almost as dangerous as giving it too much attention. How long before they realise words aren’t doing the trick and turn to more violent methods of gaining our attention? Rally’s can be ignored. Deaths cannot.

There’s a reason I said it was an “overly broad” example. I’m not seriously suggesting we lock up every anti-Semite. Just pointing out a situation in which political violence would have literally saved lives.

Except that would be suggesting that we deny people their American rights based on "preventative measures" which could essentially cause them to get an even bigger following. Or worse, become criminals even more over than what we perceived them as. How long until we start throwing people into jail because some white guy said "I prefer dating white women over asians."

People are already failed as a preventative method. People who threaten to bomb places are jailed.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

It's almost as if we got rid of it. Try harder plz.

"The government can't ever take away our rights"
"They did before"
"W-well they gave them back eventually!"

Leave it to the Irish to think drunkenness is a right.

[Napkiraly]

"The government can't ever take away our rights"
"They did before"
"W-well they gave them back eventually!"

Leave it to the Irish to think drunkenness is a right.

[Misthas]

Excellent point. I'm fully owned.

---

KKK? Nah, there was no such group. Americans wouldn't just allow the murder of black people. There would be a massive armed response to something like that. You said it yourself. "A vast majority of the nation is going to jump out of their chairs and start marching up before the stairs of our government guns blazing." So there was no KKK. There were no lynchings. If anyone had even tried they would have been faced with the vast majority of the nation, guns blazing.

If that's the only argument left that you have I'd say just accept you're unable to refute and just log out, my dude. Because your attempts at grasping ain't even earning you shit.

You're not even responding to a perfectly valid counterpoint to your argument.

[His Excellence]

-snip-

So, fascists are bad because they promote violence on groups they've labelled as enemies, but nobody should call out violent antifas because they label their targets as "fascists" before attacking them?

I see absolutely no double standards here whatsoever. Certainly doesn't remind me of any other broad stroke generalizations you've recently posted. Oh wait-

Man, fuck this poisonous cult.

Maybe you all who say you're concerned about men's rights and men's issues should be focusing on this, how vulnerable young boys and men are instilled with the notion that they have no self-worth if they aren't having sex and that women are to blame for all their problems.

"The worst subset of this loosely collected group represents everybody the umbrella term can apply to, and disproves the existence of any differing ideologies within it. But the worst subset of MY loosely collected group is just some fringe individuals that in no way represent any larger problem."

[Ifreann]

"The government can't ever take away our rights"
"They did before"
"W-well they gave them back eventually!"

I never said they can't take the rights of the people away. They can. But they can't get away with it. That's why a second amendment exists.

Again. Try harder.

Ah so there was popular armed revolution against Prohibition. I'm learning so much today.

---

Who's arguing? I'm agreeing with you. The wanton murder of innocent black people by angry mobs just couldn't happen in America. The people wouldn't have it. It's impossible.

You've opened my eyes, Harelia. How could I ever have believed in lynchings in America? I've been the victim of Russian propaganda.

"ArGuMeNt FrOm IgNoRaNcE!"

Oh no, now you're just posting fallacy names. But I have so much more to learn from you.

Mad cuz bad.

I'm having such fun.

"People would never allow the murder of blacks! If the government tried to take our rights we'd destroy them with our guns! That's why we need to ignore fascism and focus on the people knocking over trash cans and swinging bike locks. The fascist murder was just a murder but property damage is terrorism!"

These bantz are out of control. Please send help.

[Fahran]

I find that there are very few cases where a slope has actually become slippery.

Here the slope is slippery indeed. If we can employ violence against white nationalists solely because of their ideologies, why can we not employ it against other groups with ideologies we deem dangerous or antisocial?

Nor do I find it a particularly illiberal perspective to acknowledge that beyond the hard sciences, no rule is universal. Context is King.

We're eroding freedom of conscience, freedom of speech, and freedom of assembly with tacit government approval and quasi-paramilitary organizations in some cases. That's not a liberal position. It's socialist, fascist, anarchist, or conservative (in some places) - but it's certainly not liberal.

Ignoring a problem is almost as dangerous as giving it too much attention. How long before they realise words aren’t doing the trick and turn to more violent methods of gaining our attention? Rally’s can be ignored. Deaths cannot.

Hence why I have no problem with other social penalties against radicals of all stripes. We haven't even really tried words against white nationalists, though you're right that they probably won't work. Street violence hasn't worked either though. It didn't work in Italy or Germany against the fascists. It didn't work in France when De Gaulle put down the reds. It won't work here. We have to address the root causes of virulent racism and keep a lid on things until we do. Punching people in the face doesn't do that.

There’s a reason I said it was an “overly broad” example. I’m not seriously suggesting we lock up every anti-Semite. Just pointing out a situation in which political violence would have literally saved lives.

I was pointing out the problem with your argument. If Israel arrested and/or killed every Palestinian who ever expressed a dangerous opinion, they'd be accused of even more human rights abuses than they currently are. We have to sort through threats and decide which ones are serious. That means that sometimes we'll be wrong and people will die. That's how it's always been.

[Page]

-snip-

So, fascists are bad because they promote violence on groups they've labelled as enemies, but nobody should call out violent antifas because they label their targets as "fascists" before attacking them?

I see absolutely no double standards here whatsoever. Certainly doesn't remind me of any other broad stroke generalizations you've recently posted. Oh wait-

Man, fuck this poisonous cult.

Maybe you all who say you're concerned about men's rights and men's issues should be focusing on this, how vulnerable young boys and men are instilled with the notion that they have no self-worth if they aren't having sex and that women are to blame for all their problems.

"The worst subset of this loosely collected group represents everybody the umbrella term can apply to, and disproves the existence of any differing ideologies within it. But the worst subset of MY loosely collected group is just some fringe individuals that in no way represent any larger problem."

Rather than type this out for the hundreth time on NSG, I'm going to give you the cliff notes: Far right violence has a body count in the thousands and excluding 9/11 is deadlier than even radical Islamist terrorism, far left violence is some overturned trash cans and sometimes someone getting punched in the face. False equivalence.

[Sleet Clans]

If these thugs think that the flag of a nation that promotes the freedom of expression and thought is a 'fascist symbol', then Gods help anybody who flies a Swastika in their face....

[Fahran]

Rather than type this out for the hundreth time on NSG, I'm going to give you the cliff notes: Far right violence has a body count in the thousands and excluding 9/11 is deadlier than even radical Islamist terrorism, far left violence is some overturned trash cans and sometimes someone getting punched in the face. False equivalence.

In America. At the moment.

Wahhabi terrorism against other Muslims accounts for a large plurality of global terrorist attacks. Left-wing terrorism is also quite prominent globally, especially in places like Colombia that have Marxist guerrillas of various sorts roaming about in the jungles, woods, and mountains.

[His Excellence]

Rather than type this out for the hundreth time on NSG, I'm going to give you the cliff notes: Far right violence has a body count in the thousands and excluding 9/11 is deadlier than even radical Islamist terrorism, far left violence is some overturned trash cans and sometimes someone getting punched in the face. False equivalence.

Liberal leaning political groups try way too hard to downplay the wrongdoings of their members. We all know the racists and religious extremists are worse, there's no debate to be had there, but refusing to acknowledge your own bad apples makes it seem like you have something to hide; on top of the uneven media coverage, can make people wonder what they haven't heard about. For being on the side that's morally superior, this sheer desperation to reinforce the idea that you're the good guys when there's clearly extremists to be disowned, makes it look like you have doubts of it yourself.

That "false equivalence" goes further and further out the window every time someone under the antifa banner attacks a person who's not hurting anyone. Attacking someone who condones violence? Yeah that makes sense, that's totally fair. Attacking someone who supports an ideology that oppresses innocent people? Still kind of understandable, but at that point, you're stooping to their level by using violent action against ignorant words. Actually, it kinda just makes them look like the victim. It reinforces others on their side into further believing that they're right, and your side consists of violent brutes oppressing them for daring to think differently. They're not gonna think "we're being attacked because we're assholes," they're gonna think "we're being attacked by assholes."

But then we reach this point, where people get attacked just for carrying their country's flag, because it means something different to them than it does to the attackers. And the antifa supporters want to just sweep it under the rug, to shrug it off, like it's not a big deal, like there's absolutely no way this has any chance of getting worse. That's when the shoe's on the other foot, and you've become complicit in violent ideology. That's what the slippery slope means.


I say this, not because I want to discredit your goals or ideology, but because I don't want you to discredit yourself. Even when a group is right, they can go about it the wrong way, especially when they protect members that are only coming along for personal gain/gratification (in this case, wanting an excuse to disguise themselves, commit violence, and then be praised for it). I say this because I know you're better than these broad stroke fallacies and hypocrisies.

[Petrolheadia]

The fact that that idea exists at all in the far left still worries me.

It's worth keeping in mind that the perception of liberalism as left-wing is a very American-specific thing, and many on the far left openly resent that, due to them perceiving liberalism as just as much a part of the problem as conservatism. The far left tends to hate people like Chuck Schumer almost as much as it hates people like Ted Cruz.

Pole here, and (neo)liberalism is seen as a leftist thing.

Guess we're actually Americans.

[Harelia]

If that's the only argument left that you have I'd say just accept you're unable to refute and just log out, my dude. Because your attempts at grasping ain't even earning you shit.

You're not even responding to a perfectly valid counterpoint to your argument.

Nowhere in the realm of logic would that be a valid counterpoint. But okay.

I never said they can't take the rights of the people away. They can. But they can't get away with it. That's why a second amendment exists.

Again. Try harder.

Ah so there was popular armed revolution against Prohibition. I'm learning so much today.

---

"ArGuMeNt FrOm IgNoRaNcE!"

Oh no, now you're just posting fallacy names. But I have so much more to learn from you.

Mad cuz bad.

I'm having such fun.

"People would never allow the murder of blacks! If the government tried to take our rights we'd destroy them with our guns! That's why we need to ignore fascism and focus on the people knocking over trash cans and swinging bike locks. The fascist murder was just a murder but property damage is terrorism!"

These bantz are out of control. Please send help.

Considering the only remnants of your argument is satirical concepts, cherry picking, and feigned ignorance I'm pretty sure this is about the best effort you can put forth to anything I say. So it's all I'm willing to give you beyond just laughing.

[Harelia]

If these thugs think that the flag of a nation that promotes the freedom of expression and thought is a 'fascist symbol', then Gods help anybody who flies a Swastika in their face....

That's what we called "Advanced Evil."

America is Hitler. But Hitler? That's like....

...That's like SUPER Hitler.

[Harelia]

Except that would be suggesting that we deny people their American rights based on "preventative measures" which could essentially cause them to get an even bigger following. Or worse, become criminals even more over than what we perceived them as. How long until we start throwing people into jail because some white guy said "I prefer dating white women over asians."

People are already failed as a preventative method. People who threaten to bomb places are jailed.

I mean, if Antifa is so good at stopping Fascism then why didn't they stop the Las Vegas shooter with their magical preventatives?

Probably the same answer to the question of "Why doesn't God stop children from being born with bone disease?"

[LiberNovusAmericae]

Ah so there was popular armed revolution against Prohibition. I'm learning so much today.

Prohibition isn't as bad as a full on fascist dictatorship, so that is a false equivalency.

[Kubra]

Rather than type this out for the hundreth time on NSG, I'm going to give you the cliff notes: Far right violence has a body count in the thousands and excluding 9/11 is deadlier than even radical Islamist terrorism, far left violence is some overturned trash cans and sometimes someone getting punched in the face. False equivalence.

In America. At the moment.

Wahhabi terrorism against other Muslims accounts for a large plurality of global terrorist attacks. Left-wing terrorism is also quite prominent globally, especially in places like Colombia that have Marxist guerrillas of various sorts roaming about in the jungles, woods, and mountains.

I don't know if you heard, but FARC disarmed. They got their own political party now. There's a couple smaller groups still out in the jungle, but they're lucky to have numbers in the hundreds.

[Harelia]

Ah so there was popular armed revolution against Prohibition. I'm learning so much today.

Prohibition isn't as bad as a full on fascist dictatorship, so that is a false equivalency.

Careful, you'll anger them into another argumental fallacy and they'll have no choice to play their little ad hominem games again.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

I probably should have done this earlier, but I have added a poll.

[Chernoslavia]

"Antifa" isn't an organization that can be targeted or blamed. The history of it is long and checkered in Euroland, but short and kind of pathetic here in the states, inciting hate disproportionate to their actual effect. But yeah, these antifa were thugs.

Just like most anarchists, Antifa mostly consists of chapters, local militias and street gangs.

Antifa ARE NOT militia.

[Fahran]

Antifa ARE NOT militia.

They actually can be, for better or worse.

Source.

[The South Falls]

Antifa ARE NOT militia.

They actually can be, for better or worse.

Source.

I've never heard of them that way.

It proves that, for all Antifa's faults, they are still worth something.

[Fahran]

It proves that, for all Antifa's faults, they are still worth something.

Depends on the group, really, though most people are worth something.