Antifa Attacks Liberal Over American Flag.

[Harelia]

1) The riots following Trump's election sure seems like an effort to strong arm and harass into changing up the presidency. Lets not also forget the campus riots at Berkeley.

2) Look outside, they're running loose in the streets wit htheir "Beat up anyone I dislike" campaign.

3) There is no fascism in America. Just accept you just like terrorists, and are likely a terrorist sympathizer yourself.

4) Portland Riot. Where Antifa tried to attack ICE agents (and failed). Berkeley, individual beat with a bike lock. Evergreen State, where one of them actually was wielding a knife. Charlottesville, where several Antifa members had clubs and chanted for people to "punch a nazi in the mouth."

Imagine being so delusional you completely ignore everything bad that Antifa is doing. XD If it's not blathering some 'no true scotsman' fallacy on repeat, it's outright denying the existence of a problem entirely.

1. And what riots after the election would those be?

3. "No fascism in America", eh?

That's called free speech. Something that's allowed no matter your belief. And it's a RIGHT.

Until America starts hoarding people into trains and sending them off to camps to be "processed" then there is no fascism in America. And to say that there is would be to undermine and deny peoples free speech. And we all know how that works. Don't we, Scotland?

[LiberNovusAmericae]

There are groups within Antifa, and they have leaders. Also, just because a good chunk of antifa leaders or members have no de jure titles doesn't make them indemnified from responsibility.

Literally having no contact with someone who does a thing absolutely indemnifies everyone else from responsibility for that thing. To be responsible for a thing, one has to have participated in that thing in some way.

Antifa "activists" have contact with each other, otherwise they wouldn't have these large rallies, or in some cases riots... that they start.

[Vassenor]

1. And what riots after the election would those be?

3. "No fascism in America", eh?

That's called free speech. Something that's allowed no matter your belief. And it's a RIGHT.

Until America starts hoarding people into trains and sending them off to camps to be "processed" then there is no fascism in America. And to say that there is would be to undermine and deny peoples free speech. And we all know how that works. Don't we, Scotland?

Here's the thing. You didn't say anything about the government. And with that in mind, where is the "hoarding people into trains and sending them off to camps to be "processed"" going on in Scotland?

[LiberNovusAmericae]

Just answer the question, or is that too hard for you?

Pretty sure by saying the answer should be obvious to the point of not needing to be stated is answering the question. But nice try.

I'm assuming your answer is yes due to your refusal to condemn, and you wanting to deck me for what I say.

[Vassenor]

Pretty sure by saying the answer should be obvious to the point of not needing to be stated is answering the question. But nice try.

I'm assuming your answer is yes due to your refusal to condemn, and you wanting to deck me for what I say.

>Lack of explicit condemnation is tacit support

Everybody drink.

[Astoriya]

Now that's just plain WTF

[LiberNovusAmericae]

-snip-

Actually it's your own post that I linked to that convinces me.

Now that's just plain WTF

That's what I say.

[Alvecia]

Pretty sure by saying the answer should be obvious to the point of not needing to be stated is answering the question. But nice try.

I'm assuming your answer is yes due to your refusal to condemn, and you wanting to deck me for what I say.

Should be careful about asking open ended questions. Condemning political violence outright also condemn revolutions, including the American one.

[Harelia]

That's called free speech. Something that's allowed no matter your belief. And it's a RIGHT.

Until America starts hoarding people into trains and sending them off to camps to be "processed" then there is no fascism in America. And to say that there is would be to undermine and deny peoples free speech. And we all know how that works. Don't we, Scotland?

Here's the thing. You didn't say anything about the government. And with that in mind, where is the "hoarding people into trains and sending them off to camps to be "processed"" going on in Scotland?

Nice job trying to cherrypick, but you're not good at it. So you should stop.

You know full well that they are as fascist as a dead crab. They have no power beyond waving their flag and yelling, unlike Antifa who willfully tries to fistfight people. And I never said anything about Scotland stuffing people in trains, so your intensely concerted effort to grasp at straws falls pretty flat. Putting a man on criminal trial though just for satirically making a dog do a Nazi salute seems pretty fascist though. But it wouldn't be to you people since fascism is the endgame goal you want to achieve because "they hurt my fefe's." God forbid someone fart the wrong way and you get so angry you start hurling people into a gulag at random.

[Fahran]

Should be careful about asking open ended questions. Condemning political violence outright also condemn revolutions, including the American one.

If we can agree that political violence in general is a negative thing, we can then begin to discuss extenuating circumstances. The problem is that some aren't willing to do that as a general principle because they have no problem with political violence in general until it is employed against them. It's an honest approach, but not a very practical one. As it happens, I might well have been a loyalist.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

It's kinda scary to me.

I don't want Antifa attacking me now that they show that they don't care about moderate liberals.

Eh, not gonna lie. It's definitely true that some people on the far left unironically support the idea of "liberals get the bullet too". But I wouldn't worry too much. I wouldn't say it's a very widespread and systemic effort.

The fact that that idea exists at all in the far left still worries me.

[Vassenor]

Here's the thing. You didn't say anything about the government. And with that in mind, where is the "hoarding people into trains and sending them off to camps to be "processed"" going on in Scotland?

Nice job trying to cherrypick, but you're not good at it. So you should stop.

You know full well that they are as fascist as a dead crab. They have no power beyond waving their flag and yelling, unlike Antifa who willfully tries to fistfight people. And I never said anything about Scotland stuffing people in trains, so your intensely concerted effort to grasp at straws falls pretty flat. Putting a man on criminal trial though just for satirically making a dog do a Nazi salute seems pretty fascist though. But it wouldn't be to you people since fascism is the endgame goal you want to achieve because "they hurt my fefe's." God forbid someone fart the wrong way and you get so angry you start hurling people into a gulag at random.

Just applying your definition of fascism. Also way to stuff words into my mouth in a futile attempt to portray hypocrisy.

[Ifreann]

I'm pointing out to West Leas Oros that this isn't news. This isn't antifa "again".

But I see you've given up on justifying your attempts to smear me with baseless accusations of supporting terrorism.

---

No they don't.

The midterms were yesterday. Show me the candidates from the Antifa Party.

Oh honey.

I promise you they aren't.

1) The riots following Trump's election sure seems like an effort to strong arm and harass into changing up the presidency. Lets not also forget the campus riots at Berkeley.

The inauguration day protests were almost entirely peaceful and didn't have anything to do with anti-fascism. And what about Berkeley?

2) Look outside, they're running loose in the streets wit htheir "Beat up anyone I dislike" campaign.

So you can't show me anyone from the Antifa Party standing for election.

3) There is no fascism in America. Just accept you just like terrorists, and are likely a terrorist sympathizer yourself.

If you think that there is no fascism in America then you are either wilfully blind or unable to recognise the most obvious symbols of fascism. Do you know what fasces are?

4) Portland Riot. Where Antifa tried to attack ICE agents (and failed). Berkeley, individual beat with a bike lock. Evergreen State, where one of them actually was wielding a knife. Charlottesville, where several Antifa members had clubs and chanted for people to "punch a nazi in the mouth."

I'm sorry if it wasn't clear, but what I meant is that they aren't the literal textbook definition of terrorism. They aren't trying to terrorise the general public in order to have them pressure the government into acceding to their demands. They're just trying to stop fascists from doing fascism. Certainly they're willing to be violent, and maybe you think that that alone makes them terrorists. I'll point out that the main perpetrators of political violence are the police(the law is obviously political and they enforce it violently) and the military(war is the continuation of politics by other means, as the saying goes). America only exists because of the successful application of political violence, and you are hardly the only nation to secure independence violently.

Imagine being so delusional you completely ignore everything bad that Antifa is doing. XD If it's not blathering some 'no true scotsman' fallacy on repeat, it's outright denying the existence of a problem entirely.

I'm not doing either of those things, though.

[Alvecia]

Should be careful about asking open ended questions. Condemning political violence outright also condemn revolutions, including the American one.

If we can agree that political violence in general is a negative thing, we can then begin to discuss extenuating circumstances. The problem is that some aren't willing to do that as a general principle because they have no problem with political violence in general until it is employed against them. It's an honest approach, but not a very practical one. As it happens, I might well have been a loyalist.

I suppose then you need to take into account perspective.

Hypothetically (as in actually hypothetically), one might be able to hold the mention positions re: political violence logically consistent if you were to view it through the lens of self defense.
I.e. These people, should they gain power, would literally put me to death. Therefore political violence is employed to prevent their coming to power.
Similarly, these people performing political violence against myself are doing so in an honest attempt to kill me. Therefore political violence is employed to prevent this.

[Page]

Until America starts hoarding people into trains and sending them off to camps to be "processed" then there is no fascism in America. And to say that there is would be to undermine and deny peoples free speech. And we all know how that works. Don't we, Scotland?

By the time ethnic cleansing starts, it's too late. The entire reason for opposing fascism is to never get to that point.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

Until America starts hoarding people into trains and sending them off to camps to be "processed" then there is no fascism in America. And to say that there is would be to undermine and deny peoples free speech. And we all know how that works. Don't we, Scotland?

By the time ethnic cleansing starts, it's too late. The entire reason for opposing fascism is to never get to that point.

There's no fascists in power. Antifa violence is not justified, and it leads to incidents like what my OP explains.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Until America starts hoarding people into trains and sending them off to camps to be "processed" then there is no fascism in America. And to say that there is would be to undermine and deny peoples free speech. And we all know how that works. Don't we, Scotland?

By the time ethnic cleansing starts, it's too late. The entire reason for opposing fascism is to never get to that point.

That doesn't mean assaulting Liberals is a good idea.

[Page]

By the time ethnic cleansing starts, it's too late. The entire reason for opposing fascism is to never get to that point.

There's no fascists in power. Antifa violence is not justified, and it leads to incidents like what my OP explains.

The entire point of antifa is to keep fascists from gaining power. Is this such a difficult concept?

If someone runs at me on the streets with a knife, should I wait to be stabbed before I respond?

[Page]

By the time ethnic cleansing starts, it's too late. The entire reason for opposing fascism is to never get to that point.

That doesn't mean assaulting Liberals is a good idea.

If this story is true exactly as it is told, then I condemn that. But I don't know if that's the case, especially since the far-right tries to infiltrate antifacists groups to encourage violence, or just straight up stages something. They have a history of doing that.

[Fahran]

I suppose then you need to take into account perspective.

So long as we can agree that political violence is in most instances detrimental, we can then begin to discuss exceptions to that rule. It'll be something akin of the Just War Theory for civil insurrection and street violence.

Hypothetically (as in actually hypothetically), one might be able to hold the mention positions re: political violence logically consistent if you were to view it through the lens of self defense.
I.e. These people, should they gain power, would literally put me to death. Therefore political violence is employed to prevent their coming to power.

That's a plausible argument, though one would not err in questioning the immediacy and probability of a genuine threat from white nationalists, given that they're routinely outnumbered by anti-protesters at their own rallies and have lost their focus and organization since the 90's. Likewise, that same argument can just as easily be employed against communists and anarchists whose eventual goal is a violent revolution. By that logic, we can conclude quite easily that McCarthy did nothing wrong except that he did not deal more harshly with political dissidents. We're attacking them based on their ideology in the argument you made, and that's an argument that can be turned against a wide assortment of groups that seek to alter the status quo.

Similarly, these people performing political violence against myself are doing so in an honest attempt to kill me. Therefore political violence is employed to prevent this.

The same argument still applies. Unless we bind it still further, all politics becomes naked force. Keeping that in mind, my best choice would be to endorse Mattis or another strong(wo)man and allow him or her to imprison and/or execute the entirety of the far-left and far-right - who are a threat to me in the vauge future.

[Ifreann]

Here's the thing. You didn't say anything about the government. And with that in mind, where is the "hoarding people into trains and sending them off to camps to be "processed"" going on in Scotland?

Nice job trying to cherrypick, but you're not good at it. So you should stop.

You know full well that they are as fascist as a dead crab. They have no power beyond waving their flag and yelling, unlike Antifa who willfully tries to fistfight people...

He says of the rally where a woman was murdered by a fascist, a fascist who was coincidentally photographed alongside another fascist who was later arrested on entirely separate terror charges.

[Harelia]

Nice job trying to cherrypick, but you're not good at it. So you should stop.

You know full well that they are as fascist as a dead crab. They have no power beyond waving their flag and yelling, unlike Antifa who willfully tries to fistfight people. And I never said anything about Scotland stuffing people in trains, so your intensely concerted effort to grasp at straws falls pretty flat. Putting a man on criminal trial though just for satirically making a dog do a Nazi salute seems pretty fascist though. But it wouldn't be to you people since fascism is the endgame goal you want to achieve because "they hurt my fefe's." God forbid someone fart the wrong way and you get so angry you start hurling people into a gulag at random.

Just applying your definition of fascism. Also way to stuff words into my mouth in a futile attempt to portray hypocrisy.

Wow....

Pot meet kettle.

1) The riots following Trump's election sure seems like an effort to strong arm and harass into changing up the presidency. Lets not also forget the campus riots at Berkeley.

The inauguration day protests were almost entirely peaceful and didn't have anything to do with anti-fascism. And what about Berkeley?

2) Look outside, they're running loose in the streets wit htheir "Beat up anyone I dislike" campaign.

So you can't show me anyone from the Antifa Party standing for election.

3) There is no fascism in America. Just accept you just like terrorists, and are likely a terrorist sympathizer yourself.

If you think that there is no fascism in America then you are either wilfully blind or unable to recognise the most obvious symbols of fascism. Do you know what fasces are?

4) Portland Riot. Where Antifa tried to attack ICE agents (and failed). Berkeley, individual beat with a bike lock. Evergreen State, where one of them actually was wielding a knife. Charlottesville, where several Antifa members had clubs and chanted for people to "punch a nazi in the mouth."

I'm sorry if it wasn't clear, but what I meant is that they aren't the literal textbook definition of terrorism. They aren't trying to terrorise the general public in order to have them pressure the government into acceding to their demands. They're just trying to stop fascists from doing fascism. Certainly they're willing to be violent, and maybe you think that that alone makes them terrorists. I'll point out that the main perpetrators of political violence are the police(the law is obviously political and they enforce it violently) and the military(war is the continuation of politics by other means, as the saying goes). America only exists because of the successful application of political violence, and you are hardly the only nation to secure independence violently.

Imagine being so delusional you completely ignore everything bad that Antifa is doing. XD If it's not blathering some 'no true scotsman' fallacy on repeat, it's outright denying the existence of a problem entirely.

I'm not doing either of those things, though.

I didn't know that causing 100,000 worth of property damage was considered peaceful. Silly me. And yes, What about Berkeley beyond the fact Antifa can't stop assaulting people to the point that Jesse Arreguin is willing to list them as an official street gang?

And it's funny you think running as a candidate is the only way to brute force a political stance. It's almost as if the entire definition of terrorism just doesn't even exist in that case....Huh.

The only willfully blind person here is you if you think that denying the right to free speech is anywhere near laudable just because "it hurts my feelings."

Also the police are the terrorists now? Man, spoken like a true leftist, I guess. And not to burst your fragile bubble but

ter·ror·ism
/ˈterəˌrizəm/Submit
noun
the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

Even the FBI says so.

[Harelia]

That doesn't mean assaulting Liberals is a good idea.

If this story is true exactly as it is told, then I condemn that. But I don't know if that's the case, especially since the far-right tries to infiltrate antifacists groups to encourage violence, or just straight up stages something. They have a history of doing that.

Are you suggesting a false flag?

Well now...

[Alvecia]

I suppose then you need to take into account perspective.

So long as we can agree that political violence is in most instances detrimental, we can then begin to discuss exceptions to that rule. It'll be something akin of the Just War Theory for civil insurrection and street violence.

Hypothetically (as in actually hypothetically), one might be able to hold the mention positions re: political violence logically consistent if you were to view it through the lens of self defense.
I.e. These people, should they gain power, would literally put me to death. Therefore political violence is employed to prevent their coming to power.

That's a plausible argument, though one would not err in questioning the immediacy and probability of a genuine threat from white nationalists, given that they're routinely outnumbered by anti-protesters at their own rallies and have lost their focus and organization since the 90's. Likewise, that same argument can just as easily be employed against communists and anarchists whose eventual goal is a violent revolution. By that logic, we can conclude quite easily that McCarthy did nothing wrong except that he did not deal more harshly with political dissidents. We're attacking them based on their ideology in the argument you made, and that's an argument that can be turned against a wide assortment of groups that seek to alter the status quo.

Similarly, these people performing political violence against myself are doing so in an honest attempt to kill me. Therefore political violence is employed to prevent this.

The same argument still applies. Unless we bind it still further, all politics becomes naked force. Keeping that in mind, my best choice would be to endorse Mattis or another strong(wo)man and allow him or her to imprison and/or execute the entirety of the far-left and far-right - who are a threat to me in the vauge future.

Attacking them based on their political ideology isn’t necessarily bad depending on the ideology.
If the ideology necessarily would cause potentially fatal harm to a persons, then again, violence here would fall under the aforementioned banner of self defense.
Using an overly broad but real world example, if we did arrest people for any-semitism, then we at least know that there would 11 less people dead.

[Conserative Morality]

"Antifa" isn't an organization that can be targeted or blamed. The history of it is long and checkered in Euroland, but short and kind of pathetic here in the states, inciting hate disproportionate to their actual effect. But yeah, these antifa were thugs.