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Antifa Attacks Liberal Over American Flag.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Is this attack justifiable?

Poll ended at Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:40 pm

Yes
9
12%
No
66
88%
 
Total votes : 75

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Kubumba Tribe
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Posts: 9444
Founded: Apr 09, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Kubumba Tribe » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:10 pm

Holy Tedalonia wrote:
Kubumba Tribe wrote:I wouldn't be a good Islamist if I were a supremacist ;)
Not that you have to be an Islamist to hats America.

And you don’t have to be American to love America ;)

And you don't have to be a foreigner to hate America ;)
Also, about the "I don't want dissidents in my country": :rofl: :rofl:
Hating a country =/= dissident
Marmapus wrote:Don't you mean, "stop acting like a hair and get out of my butthole"?
If you've got buttholes in your hair, I'd switch shampoos.

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South Ccanda wrote:
Scomagia wrote:Flag burning is an effective means of political speech. There shouldn't be any penalty provided the flag you burn belongs to you.

Using the army on a loose band of college attention whores, liberal activists, and violent communists is silly. Infiltration by the FBI for the purposes of finding and arresting the violent members is much better. Also, it's constitutional.

I absolutely hate to say it, but they DO have the rights granted to them by the US to burn the US flag if they wish, again, as long as its theirs. But at most of these protests, they dont go buy their own flags, they steal them from other protesters and THEN burn them.

Source?
Pro: (Pan-)Islamism--Palestine--RBG--Choice to an extent--Giving land back to Native Americans--East--Afrika--etc.
Anti: US gov--West gov--Capitalism--Imperialism/Colonialism--Racism/White Supremacy--Secularism getting into everything--Western 'intervention' in the East--Zionism--etc.
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Farnhamia wrote:A word of advice from your friendly neighborhood Mod, be careful how you use "kafir." It's derogatory usage by some people can get you in trouble unless you are very careful in setting the context for it's use.

This means we can use the word, just not in a bad way. So don't punish anyone who uses kafir.

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Cedoria
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Posts: 7342
Founded: Feb 22, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Cedoria » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:10 pm

Fahran wrote:
Scomagia wrote:Using the army on a loose band of college attention whores, liberal activists, and violent communists is silly. Infiltration by the FBI for the purposes of finding and arresting the violent members is much better. Also, it's constitutional.

This. Just arrest everyone who engages in violence and call it a day. We do the same to white nationalist groups.

Except you don't, which is part of the problem. If you did, there'd probably be no Antifa in the first place.
In real life I am a libertarian socialist

Abolish the state!

Ni Dieu ni Maitre!
Founding member of The Leftist Assembly

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Scomagia
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Founded: Apr 14, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Scomagia » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:11 pm

The Lone Alliance wrote:
Fahran wrote:This. Just arrest everyone who engages in violence and call it a day. We do the same to white nationalist groups.

Seriously this. If we want to be especially cruel we can send them all to the same prison and let them be forced to work together.

No. Looking at prison gangs it becomes clear that you should separate group members from each other.
Insert trite farewell here

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Nakena
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Posts: 15010
Founded: May 06, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Nakena » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:12 pm

Cedoria wrote:So how do we know they identify as Antifa? The source doesn't say explicitly.

Regardless, Antifa is not an organisation, so calling them 'members' is a stretch. The attack itself is both stupid and sick, if indeed the source is telling the truth about it. Absolutely should throw the book at em if that's what happened.


Have a better source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwE620VkaD0

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Liriena
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Posts: 60885
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:12 pm

I love it when someone unironically thinks that hurting an inanimate piece of fabric should be treated as a serious crime
be gay do crime


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Nakena
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Founded: May 06, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Nakena » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:13 pm

Liriena wrote:I love it when someone unironically thinks that hurting an inanimate piece of fabric should be treated as a serious crime


Actually the guy got hurt.

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Cedoria
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Posts: 7342
Founded: Feb 22, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Cedoria » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:14 pm

Nakena wrote:
Cedoria wrote:So how do we know they identify as Antifa? The source doesn't say explicitly.

Regardless, Antifa is not an organisation, so calling them 'members' is a stretch. The attack itself is both stupid and sick, if indeed the source is telling the truth about it. Absolutely should throw the book at em if that's what happened.


Have a better source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwE620VkaD0


The day when Youtube is considered a better source...

Thanks anyway.
In real life I am a libertarian socialist

Abolish the state!

Ni Dieu ni Maitre!
Founding member of The Leftist Assembly

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Scomagia
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Founded: Apr 14, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Scomagia » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:15 pm

Liriena wrote:I love it when someone unironically thinks that hurting an inanimate piece of fabric should be treated as a serious crime

Provided it belongs to you it really shouldn't be. Theft and destruction of someone else's flag should be a very serious crime.
Insert trite farewell here

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Liriena
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Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:18 pm

Nakena wrote:
Liriena wrote:I love it when someone unironically thinks that hurting an inanimate piece of fabric should be treated as a serious crime


Actually the guy got hurt.

I was just too lazy to quote the one poster who argued for treating flag desecration as a crime. The guy getting attacked I do think is a crime and just plain wrong.
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

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The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp
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Posts: 34994
Founded: Dec 18, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:21 pm

Liriena wrote:
Scomagia wrote:t isn't a minor story.

Yes, it's a minor story. It is for the purposes of making a broad discussion about political violence.

A single case of battery and potentially attempted murder, specially when it's not premeditated or really organized, is a very sorry sample if you want to talk about political violence in a broad context. And it becomes even worse when the case is not even recent enough that its immediacy would justify intense attention. OP might as well have made the thread about Richard Spencer getting punched last year.

It's kinda scary to me.

I don't want Antifa attacking me now that they show that they don't care about moderate liberals.

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Nakena
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Posts: 15010
Founded: May 06, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Nakena » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:22 pm

Liriena wrote:
Nakena wrote:
Actually the guy got hurt.

I was just too lazy to quote the one poster who argued for treating flag desecration as a crime. The guy getting attacked I do think is a crime and just plain wrong.


Interestingly flag desecration isn't a crime in the US, and chances are that this is not going to change.

The problem is the self-righteous attitude of Antifa when it comes to violence. Aside from the fact that it doesn't helps their cause. But they don't want or care to know.
Last edited by Nakena on Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Kubumba Tribe
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Posts: 9444
Founded: Apr 09, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Kubumba Tribe » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:24 pm

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:
Liriena wrote:Yes, it's a minor story. It is for the purposes of making a broad discussion about political violence.

A single case of battery and potentially attempted murder, specially when it's not premeditated or really organized, is a very sorry sample if you want to talk about political violence in a broad context. And it becomes even worse when the case is not even recent enough that its immediacy would justify intense attention. OP might as well have made the thread about Richard Spencer getting punched last year.

It's kinda scary to me.

I don't want Antifa attacking me now that they show that they don't care about moderate liberals.

Hey at least you're still alive. I'd get probs dismembered lol.
Buy you'd be fine, most Antifa groups would like you.
Pro: (Pan-)Islamism--Palestine--RBG--Choice to an extent--Giving land back to Native Americans--East--Afrika--etc.
Anti: US gov--West gov--Capitalism--Imperialism/Colonialism--Racism/White Supremacy--Secularism getting into everything--Western 'intervention' in the East--Zionism--etc.
I'm a New Afrikan Muslim :) https://www.16personalities.com/isfj-personality Sister nation of El-Amin Caliphate
Farnhamia wrote:A word of advice from your friendly neighborhood Mod, be careful how you use "kafir." It's derogatory usage by some people can get you in trouble unless you are very careful in setting the context for it's use.

This means we can use the word, just not in a bad way. So don't punish anyone who uses kafir.

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Vassenor
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 68157
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:26 pm

Cedoria wrote:So how do we know they identify as Antifa? The source doesn't say explicitly.

Regardless, Antifa is not an organisation, so calling them 'members' is a stretch. The attack itself is both stupid and sick, if indeed the source is telling the truth about it. Absolutely should throw the book at em if that's what happened.


We're not allowed to mention that bit.
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LiberNovusAmericae
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Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:54 pm

Vassenor wrote:
Cedoria wrote:So how do we know they identify as Antifa? The source doesn't say explicitly.

Regardless, Antifa is not an organisation, so calling them 'members' is a stretch. The attack itself is both stupid and sick, if indeed the source is telling the truth about it. Absolutely should throw the book at em if that's what happened.


We're not allowed to mention that bit.

You can mention it, but others have the right to tell you that you're wrong.

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El-Amin Caliphate
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Founded: Apr 05, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:57 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
We're not allowed to mention that bit.

You can mention it, but others have the right to tell you that you're wrong.

So where does the source mention antifa?
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Cedoria
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Founded: Feb 22, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Cedoria » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:59 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
We're not allowed to mention that bit.

You can mention it, but others have the right to tell you that you're wrong.

And you also have a right to BE wrong when you tell other people that.

Which is lucky for you, as it turns out.
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Abolish the state!

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LiberNovusAmericae
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Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:59 pm

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:You can mention it, but others have the right to tell you that you're wrong.

So where does the source mention antifa?

It's in the title of the news article, as well as in several other paragraphs in said article.

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Chernoslavia
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Posts: 9890
Founded: Jun 13, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Chernoslavia » Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:01 pm

B-but guyz he was a fascist!
Last edited by Chernoslavia on Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn

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Cedoria
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Founded: Feb 22, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Cedoria » Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:01 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:So where does the source mention antifa?

It's in the title of the news article, as well as in several other paragraphs in said article.

Which presents no evidence beyond it's own say-so that it is Antifa, hence my query as to whether there was independent verification.

The source is not one I trusted to report accurately, so I wanted to know if anyone heard them say they were Antifa, or if another group picked it up with another verification. If it IS Antifa, I would imagine dozens of media organisations will jump on it.
In real life I am a libertarian socialist

Abolish the state!

Ni Dieu ni Maitre!
Founding member of The Leftist Assembly

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The Liberated Territories
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Founded: Dec 03, 2013
Capitalizt

Postby The Liberated Territories » Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:03 pm

Antifa are violent. What else is new?
Left Wing Market Anarchism

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LiberNovusAmericae
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Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:09 pm

Cedoria wrote:

Which presents no evidence beyond it's own say-so that it is Antifa, hence my query as to whether there was independent verification.

The source is not one I trusted to report accurately, so I wanted to know if anyone heard them say they were Antifa, or if another group picked it up with another verification. If it IS Antifa, I would imagine dozens of media organisations will jump on it.

Doubt it. The mainstream media barely covers violence in Portland at all. The Hill has reported on it, but not many others have. Antifa violence has not unheard of though, because they have started a riot at Berkeley, and that was something that mainstream media has covered.

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Nakena
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Founded: May 06, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Nakena » Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:11 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Cedoria wrote:Which presents no evidence beyond it's own say-so that it is Antifa, hence my query as to whether there was independent verification.

The source is not one I trusted to report accurately, so I wanted to know if anyone heard them say they were Antifa, or if another group picked it up with another verification. If it IS Antifa, I would imagine dozens of media organisations will jump on it.

Doubt it. The mainstream media barely covers violence in Portland at all. The Hill has reported on it, but not many others have. Antifa violence has not unheard of though, because they have started a riot at Berkeley, and that was something that mainstream media has covered.


Thats a good source. Thank you for it.

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El-Amin Caliphate
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Founded: Apr 05, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:15 pm

The Liberated Territories wrote:Antifa are violent. What else is new?

Which group are you talking about?
Kubumba Tribe's sister nation. NOT A PUPPET! >w< In fact, this one came 1st.
Proud Full Member of the Council of Islamic Cooperation!^u^
I'm a (Pan) Islamist ;)
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Nakena
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Founded: May 06, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Nakena » Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:16 pm

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
The Liberated Territories wrote:Antifa are violent. What else is new?

Which group are you talking about?


The one that attacked the guy in Portland, because he was carrying an american flag. Supposedly it is now a fascist symbol (sic!)

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South Ccanda
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Posts: 611
Founded: Mar 21, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby South Ccanda » Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:04 pm

Cedoria wrote:So how do we know they identify as Antifa? The source doesn't say explicitly.

Regardless, Antifa is not an organisation, so calling them 'members' is a stretch. The attack itself is both stupid and sick, if indeed the source is telling the truth about it. Absolutely should throw the book at em if that's what happened.

they wear a signature all-black attire plus a face mask. they don't wear markings on their clothing to avoid getting caught.
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