Marijuana research

[Valgora]

Some states in the USA has legalized or decriminalized Marijuana, Trump said he wants to uplift the federal ban (and supports it): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPneh8putkg

I hope he does.
It would be the first actual good thing he done in my opinion.

I'm surprised he wants to. I guess he didn't really care that much about states making it legal while only his Attorney General cared about it.

[Azurius]

Logistics, costs and in the end, success too. You will be far more successfull with your research in the long run if you choose a high degree university. And since those universities don´t move we are stuck with the situation we are in, it´s a pity indeed.

I am certainly no friend of Israel but, fun fact: Cannabis is legal there, the were among the first to legalize it nationwide too, and they are actualy leading in cannabis research, study and knowledge about it. Their research since years already even includes tests with artificial cannabinoids. Hence the most interesting studies and finds will mostly come from Israel, that´s the place to look for serious bio-chemical and medical research into cannabis. That´s also the place where you will find most of the worlds leading scientists in this topic.

Israel was one of the first to legalize cannabis nationwide?
Never knew that.... learn something new everyday.

Another fun fact: if I recall correctly, Cannabis is legal in North Korea - well... personally growing and/or smoking psychoactive cannabis, while not likely condoned, it ain't punished severely.

True that I heard of that too. However to be fact orientated: It´s more like North Korea never had any laws against cannabis, nor was it ever a problem nor is it today. But yes, i´ve heard that quite some people enjoy a joint after their work or duties. Another fun fact is that North Koreans are actually quite fond of cigarrettes and smoking in general.

China has an similiar example: Alcohol. Traditionaly alcohol has always been officialy legal on paper, for all ages. Meaning can actualy legaly buy booze and drink it in China. However, up until a few years it has never been a "problem". I.e. minors drinking was frowned upon, and rarely would a minor even attempt to do so. Modernization and new trends have changed that, and from my information, 2-3 years ago China was debatting on a nationwide drinking limit for adults(18+) for the first time.

I don´t know what became of this, but they did at least discuss it. One may wouldn´t think that but chinese laws on alcohol are or were at least very lax.

[Azurius]

But still... why can't American scientists come to Canada, and/or bring their research resources to Canada, to do their research here?

Why can't the US government just let people do what they please with a plant?

Sure, an airplane ticket to Canada and the costs of room and board aren't too high, I'm sure researchers could manage it. But it would be even cheaper to just legalize it all together. Not only does that not cost money, it makes money - a shitload of money. Cannabis can help fund education, public health, research, and more. And it would take away a big chunk of drug cartels' markets which in turn would reduce violence - those of you on the conservative side of the aisle might be especially interested in the fact that if drug related violence goes down in Central America, so does immigration to the US.

I can't remember the costs of researching on a Schedule 1 drug, but they're high. And American researchers face lots of ridiculous requirements - like being limited in the amount they can have on hand and be required to buy some kind of ridiculously expensive safe. It's not just weed. MDMA combined with therapy is showing a lot of potential for treating PTSD. Psilocybin mushrooms have been demonstrated to improve the well-being of terminally ill people, to help them come to terms with their mortality.

Every substance on this Earth has a use. Even heroin is used in other countries as morphine in the US, and it's safe when administered by a trained physician. It's time to end the insanity, end the war on drugs.

True, LSD too. In controlled dosages together with therepheutic effort it shows good to even great promise in serious cases like serial murders, rapists, sadists etc.

Another interesting drug is Iboga. It´s main effects are actualy as paradox as it sounds: Fighting addiction. It has shown great results in harsh and long term heroin, crack and opium addicts. It would seem to have a certain therapeutic effect on a persons mind too. The person becomes more aware of other people around them and the effects their behaviour and choiced actualy have on other people.

[Holy Tedalonia]

The nation panicky to anything relating to drugs. And ensures its public is not under harmful effects. The only reason to legalize it for research is to see its effect on the public. Essentially researching people and checking the harmful effects while they take it. I don’t consider that a morally good concept.

[Valgora]

The nation panicky to anything relating to drugs. And ensures its public is not under harmful effects. The only reason to legalize it for research is to see its effect on the public. Essentially researching people and checking the harmful effects while they take it. I don’t consider that a morally good concept.

If you only legalize it to test it's effects on people, that ain't really a morally good concept.
However, legalizing it because it shouldn't have been illegal in the first place and then researching its effects on people is fine.
Of course, if it's already been researched before legalizing it, then there ain't a problem.

[Holy Tedalonia]

The nation panicky to anything relating to drugs. And ensures its public is not under harmful effects. The only reason to legalize it for research is to see its effect on the public. Essentially researching people and checking the harmful effects while they take it. I don’t consider that a morally good concept.

If you only legalize it to test it's effects on people, that ain't really a morally good concept.
However, legalizing it because it shouldn't have been illegal in the first place and then researching its effects on people is fine.
Of course, if it's already been researched before legalizing it, then there ain't a problem.

Agreed, I find little wrong in legalizing marijuana. I just find the argument the op presented a poor one.

[Ifreann]

A few years ago, I remember TheYoungTurks mentioning in a video that US anti-marijuana laws are holding back research into marijuana's actual effects. It made me so angry that the very people trying to smear it as an inherently negative and never-beneficial thing somehow get to hold back research that could prove them wrong. It seems like such a conflict of interest.

I don't recall what video it was, but I've found an article suggesting the same.

https://www.statnews.com/2016/08/10/mar ... earch-dea/

But cannabis, at the moment, is perfectly legal in Canada.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/17/health/c ... index.html

I get that Canada has only a ninth as many people as the United States, and as such, fewer resources with which to study marijuana's effects. But still... why can't American scientists come to Canada, and/or bring their research resources to Canada, to do their research here?

The resources don't belong to the scientists.

[Azurius]

The nation panicky to anything relating to drugs. And ensures its public is not under harmful effects. The only reason to legalize it for research is to see its effect on the public. Essentially researching people and checking the harmful effects while they take it. I don’t consider that a morally good concept.

Then I hope this nation ensures their public ingest no alcohol, caffeine or refined sugar either, since those, are drugs too. And actualy sadly have a harmfull effect on peoples intelligence and also judgement as multiple studies show. If we talk about things harmfull on peoples judgement and behaviour the nation should ensure that trans-fats are in fact banned too.

If you only legalize it to test it's effects on people, that ain't really a morally good concept.
However, legalizing it because it shouldn't have been illegal in the first place and then researching its effects on people is fine.
Of course, if it's already been researched before legalizing it, then there ain't a problem.

Agreed, I find little wrong in legalizing marijuana. I just find the argument the op presented a poor one.

Agreed on that. Plus the OP´s mathematical errors.

[Valgora]

If you only legalize it to test it's effects on people, that ain't really a morally good concept.
However, legalizing it because it shouldn't have been illegal in the first place and then researching its effects on people is fine.
Of course, if it's already been researched before legalizing it, then there ain't a problem.

Agreed, I find little wrong in legalizing marijuana. I just find the argument the op presented a poor one.

Fair enough.

[Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio]

I consider drugs to be a bad idea in general if done for recreation, but not immoral. Parkour is also a very bad idea. So is juggling chainsaws while riding a unicycle. If someone is aware of the risks of something, it harms no one else, and accepts the risks, then let them do it. That also might mean only using edible marijuana, although, because second hand smoke affects others who may not consent to the effects. I personally would only use drugs that are currently illegal for medicinal purposes, and maybe not then if there are alternatives.

[Azurius]

I consider drugs to be a bad idea in general if done for recreation, but not immoral. Parkour is also a very bad idea. So is juggling chainsaws while riding a unicycle. If someone is aware of the risks of something, it harms no one else, and accepts the risks, then let them do it. That also might mean only using edible marijuana, although, because second hand smoke affects others who may not consent to the effects. I personally would only use drugs that are currently illegal for medicinal purposes, and maybe not then if there are alternatives.

Eaten cannabis indeed has zero harmfull attributed effects, only positive ones. When it comes to intelligence: Read the studies, the most compelling is the twin study, which was done on 250+ identical twins where one twin started smoking cannabis in his life, where the other didn´t. Social life as well as performance in intelligent test and grades were absolutely identical.

Recrational users will often prefer to smoke it though. In my oppinion there is not much you can do about that either, people are going to do it anyway, legaly or not. Why not provide education, healthcare and legalize the ones that are about as harmfull as sugar and far less harmfull then alcohol? So that people never go near the realy destructive and harmfull drugs. Although seriously, alcohol is a very harmfull and barely tolerable substance itself already. However if we tolerate that, we must tolerate anything less harmfull. Anything else is hypocrisy that will always lead to negative results.

[Thermodolia]

Marijuana should be legalized and all other drugs should be decriminalized.

Those who are caught with any of the decriminalized drugs will be sent to state funded rehabilitation. Dealers will get prison sentences after rehab is complete and drug kingpins will get life in prison or death if anyone OD’d on their drugs

[Guelder]

Marijuana should be legalized and all other drugs should be decriminalized.

Those who are caught with any of the decriminalized drugs will be sent to state funded rehabilitation. Dealers will get prison sentences after rehab is complete and drug kingpins will get life in prison or death if anyone OD’d on their drugs

Do you know what decriminalization is?

[Valgora]

I consider drugs to be a bad idea in general if done for recreation, but not immoral. Parkour is also a very bad idea. So is juggling chainsaws while riding a unicycle. If someone is aware of the risks of something, it harms no one else, and accepts the risks, then let them do it. That also might mean only using edible marijuana, although, because second hand smoke affects others who may not consent to the effects. I personally would only use drugs that are currently illegal for medicinal purposes, and maybe not then if there are alternatives.

Eaten cannabis indeed has zero harmfull attributed effects, only positive ones.

Recrational users will often prefer to smoke it though. In my oppinion there is not much you can do about that either, people are going to do it anyway, legaly or not. Why not provide education, healthcare and legalize the ones that are about as harmfull as sugar and far less harmfull then alcohol? So that people never go near the realy destructive and harmfull drugs. Although seriously, alcohol is a very harmfull and barely tolerable substance itself already. However if we tolerate that, we must tolerate anything less harmfull. Anything else is hypocrisy that will always lead to negative results.

I can say that those who use cannabis recreationally will usually prefer to smoke it.
However, using it for certain medical reasons - like anxiety - it would be better to smoke it since the effect of cannabis is quicker when smoked compared to eating it.

[Azurius]

Marijuana should be legalized and all other drugs should be decriminalized.

Those who are caught with any of the decriminalized drugs will be sent to state funded rehabilitation. Dealers will get prison sentences after rehab is complete and drug kingpins will get life in prison or death if anyone OD’d on their drugs

I disagree with decriminalizing certain drugs. I don´t think hard ones should be legal. Plus, realife cases and data show that when you legalize a soft drug like cannabis, the demand for hard drugs and even alcohol falls automaticaly.

Which is why I see no sense in legalizing the hard drugs personaly, especialy not given the plentifull safer alternatives that should also be legal.

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

Why can't the US government just let people do what they please with a plant?

Because of pressure from lobbyists and/or voters.

Scientists, however, don't need either group's permission to leave the country.

[Valgora]

Marijuana should be legalized and all other drugs should be decriminalized.

Those who are caught with any of the decriminalized drugs will be sent to state funded rehabilitation. Dealers will get prison sentences after rehab is complete and drug kingpins will get life in prison or death if anyone OD’d on their drugs

Do you know what decriminalization is?

What Therm is appearing to say is that drugs are decriminalized for users while drug dealers will face actual punishment for it.
That ain't actual decriminalization, but it's closer to decriminalization compared to what we currently have.

[Valgora]

Marijuana should be legalized and all other drugs should be decriminalized.

Those who are caught with any of the decriminalized drugs will be sent to state funded rehabilitation. Dealers will get prison sentences after rehab is complete and drug kingpins will get life in prison or death if anyone OD’d on their drugs

I disagree with decriminalizing certain drugs. I don´t think hard ones should be legal. Plus, realife cases and data show that when you legalize a soft drug like cannabis, the demand for hard drugs and even alcohol falls automaticaly.

Which is why I see no sense in legalizing the hard drugs personaly, especialy not given the plentifull safer alternatives that should also be legal.

Decriminalizing hard drugs would make it better for people to seek help and rehabilitation since they won't be afraid of being punished.

[Thermodolia]

Marijuana should be legalized and all other drugs should be decriminalized.

Those who are caught with any of the decriminalized drugs will be sent to state funded rehabilitation. Dealers will get prison sentences after rehab is complete and drug kingpins will get life in prison or death if anyone OD’d on their drugs

I disagree with decriminalizing certain drugs. I don´t think hard ones should be legal. Plus, realife cases and data show that when you legalize a soft drug like cannabis, the demand for hard drugs and even alcohol falls automaticaly.

Which is why I see no sense in legalizing the hard drugs personaly, especialy not given the plentifull safer alternatives that should also be legal.

I’m not saying we should legalize hard drugs just decriminalize them. Instead of going to prison for possession of hard drugs you will go to a rehab center. Portugal does this and it seems to work fine

[Ifreann]

Why can't the US government just let people do what they please with a plant?

Because of pressure from lobbyists and/or voters.

Scientists, however, don't need either group's permission to leave the country.

Scientists do not.

But if they tried to bring lab equipment or funds that do not belong to them out of the country then that would be a crime.

[Thermodolia]

Marijuana should be legalized and all other drugs should be decriminalized.

Those who are caught with any of the decriminalized drugs will be sent to state funded rehabilitation. Dealers will get prison sentences after rehab is complete and drug kingpins will get life in prison or death if anyone OD’d on their drugs

Do you know what decriminalization is?

Yes

[Azurius]

Eaten cannabis indeed has zero harmfull attributed effects, only positive ones.

Recrational users will often prefer to smoke it though. In my oppinion there is not much you can do about that either, people are going to do it anyway, legaly or not. Why not provide education, healthcare and legalize the ones that are about as harmfull as sugar and far less harmfull then alcohol? So that people never go near the realy destructive and harmfull drugs. Although seriously, alcohol is a very harmfull and barely tolerable substance itself already. However if we tolerate that, we must tolerate anything less harmfull. Anything else is hypocrisy that will always lead to negative results.

I can say that those who use cannabis recreationally will usually prefer to smoke it.
However, using it for certain medical reasons - like anxiety - it would be better to smoke it since the effect of cannabis is quicker when smoked compared to eating it.

This especially applies to rare and degenerative nervous diseases like tourette syndrom too. Those patiens will need a quick, fast acting medical aid at times. By legalizing and maybe also subsidizing(especially for medical purposes) you can promote the safer alternative of vaporiziation. Far less harmfull tar for the lungs and less beneficial cananbinoids with medical effects that are destroyed. Why not do the same for recrational users? You will always have those, encourage the safer alternative of vaporizing.

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

If you only legalize it to test it's effects on people, that ain't really a morally good concept.
However, legalizing it because it shouldn't have been illegal in the first place and then researching its effects on people is fine.
Of course, if it's already been researched before legalizing it, then there ain't a problem.

Agreed, I find little wrong in legalizing marijuana. I just find the argument the op presented a poor one.

It isn't really, though.

The choice is between two options.

1. Claim something is harmful while stacking the deck against anything that could prove you wrong.

2. With the help of willing volunteers, actually TEST your theories on whether or not it's harmful.

Which of these sounds more immoral to you?

Society tests on animals all the time even though they cannot consent to it. Why not find willing volunteers instead?

[Valgora]

I can say that those who use cannabis recreationally will usually prefer to smoke it.
However, using it for certain medical reasons - like anxiety - it would be better to smoke it since the effect of cannabis is quicker when smoked compared to eating it.

This especially applies to rare and degenerative nervous diseases like tourette syndrom too. Those patiens will need a quick, fast acting medical aid at times. By legalizing and maybe also subsidizing(especially for medical purposes) you can promote the safer alternative of vaporiziation. Far less harmfull tar for the lungs and less beneficial cananbinoids with medical effects that are destroyed. Why not do the same for recrational users? You will always have those, encourage the safer alternative of vaporizing.

Well... you can't have a bong and call it "Bing Bong" if you only use vaporization.

[Thermodolia]

Do you know what decriminalization is?

What Therm is appearing to say is that drugs are decriminalized for users while drug dealers will face actual punishment for it.
That ain't actual decriminalization, but it's closer to decriminalization compared to what we currently have.

Well you can decriminalize possession of said hard drugs while still having the dealing being illegal. Though because a lot of dealers tend to be users they’ll get rehab too.