Florida Yoga Studio Shooter Identified As InCel

[Internationalist Bastard]

Very much this. Masculinity is fine. It's that there's just sorta a low key sexism that's been tied to it, similar to femininity, and it's been tied to it for so long that I think people don't know how to seperate the two all that well

Yeah.

Again, being LGBT+ probably helps in that your very identity necessitates you challenging certain expectations regarding one's own gender, expression and roles, and when you get there you've got a vibrant and genuinely varied constellation of subcultures through which you can explore your masculinity or femininity freely and guilt-free.

Very true. I've both experienced both gender roles first hand and went through the awkwardness of realizing my identity as a woman who like many traditionally masculine things.

[Grenartia]

I have been in a similar position, but through a lot of hard work I learned to deal with it. And more importantly, I didn't let myself just accept and naturalize whatever resentment I had. I challenged it, refuted it, and moved past it.

Although the fact that I also liked dudes probably made things easier, to be honest.

Things are usually easier with men groups of people who society shares similar expectations for.

Phicksed.

Women say things are easier with other women, men say things are easier with other men. This leads me to believe that the problem isn't women or men, but with how society treats women and men.

[Foryis]

I often say a lot of this would be solved if everyone just lowered their standards.

I agree. People need to have realistic expectations of themselves.

A lot of people think incels are only chasing after super attractive women when that isn't the case at all.

[Liriena]

A general question for this thread. There's been a lot of talk of masculinity and toxic masculinity. What would you (the reader) consider non-toxic masculinity to be?

I figure the best definition of such a masculinity would be a negative one? Like, non-toxic masculinity would be masculinity without its toxic bits? I don't think such a masculinity could have a singular, universal positive definition.

[Petrasylvania]

I agree. People need to have realistic expectations of themselves.

A lot of people think incels are only chasing after super attractive women when that isn't the case at all.

So why all the rage at Chad and Stacy? Seems like they want Stacy for themselves.

[Balican]

So would the male in a relationship beeing expected to be a physical protector and do manual labor be sexist?

No.
At least, I don't think so.

By that same logic, the woman in the relationship should do the majority of the chores. Is that considered sexist?

[Valgora]

No.
At least, I don't think so.

By that same logic, the woman in the relationship should do the majority of the chores. Is that considered sexist?

I don't see how the same logic implies that the woman in the relationship should do the majority of the chores.

[Vince Vaughn]

A lot of people think incels are only chasing after super attractive women when that isn't the case at all.

So why all the rage at Chad and Stacy? Seems like they want Stacy for themselves.

Because Stacy's sorority sister hooked her up at SullCrom and Chad's father got him into Harvard Business School.

[Bombadil]

I often say a lot of this would be solved if everyone just lowered their standards.

You think people would be willing to settle?

Not everyone gets to sleep with the cheerleader, other than Christie-Lou.. that girl..

I think a part is not about whether one can get laid, anyone can get laid to be fair, it's as much as whether you're with someone that reflects who you want to be, not always who you are.

[Foryis]

I feel like many are willing. It's just that that minority that insults people for being virgins is the only time it's ever talked about so it creates an illusion that the world is against you. I have some very severe mental illnesses myself so I can very much attest to the feeling that world exists to crush you because of a handful of rejections.

Minority?
I can’t remember a woman who found out about me who hasn’t attempted abuse. Everything from being ostracised to extortion. It’s like a I’m a victim you may abuse me sign to women.

Most men ask a couple of questions and then treat you like you’re a kid. There’s been a few shit cunts, but yeah mostly not that negative.

It’s pretty much to the point where we don’t tell my own staff about it.

Women absolutely hate virgins.

[Balican]

Would you consider men being expected to pay for meals and buy the flowers sexist? What about rings?

Yes. I proposed to my husband actually. There's nothing wrong with a man being the sole provider and the woman being at home cooking meals, just the same as theres nothing wrong with the opposite.

Okay, so equality is not considered toxic-masculinity, but what is something definitively masculine that is not toxic?

[Internationalist Bastard]

By that same logic, the woman in the relationship should do the majority of the chores. Is that considered sexist?

I don't see how the same logic implies that the woman in the relationship should do the majority of the chores.

Traditional gender roles state man is provider, woman is caretaker

[Liriena]

Things are usually easier with men groups of people who society shares similar expectations for.

Phicksed.

Women say things are easier with other women, men say things are easier with other men. This leads me to believe that the problem isn't women or men, but with how society treats women and men.

Lack of open communication when it comes to issues of gender and relationships is definitely a big factor. As far as I can tell, and speaking from my own personal experiences as well, most guys learn how to flirt with girls exclusively from other guys... which is basically shitty anthropology applied to dating.

[Foryis]

You think people would be willing to settle?

Not everyone gets to sleep with the cheerleader, other than Christie-Lou.. that girl..

I think a part is not about whether one can get laid, anyone can get laid to be fair, it's as much as whether you're with someone that reflects who you want to be, not always who you are.

From what I've seen an average woman won't even give an average looking man the time of day.

[Ostroeuropa]

A general question for this thread. There's been a lot of talk of masculinity and toxic masculinity. What would you (the reader) consider non-toxic masculinity to be?

I figure the best definition of such a masculinity would be a negative one? Like, non-toxic masculinity would be masculinity without its toxic bits? I don't think such a masculinity could have a singular, universal positive definition.

You don't know the answer because it's a term feminists appropriated for disingenuous reasons in order to derail a conversation pertaining to mens issues and distort terminology. Same as they did with rape culture.

This is a pretty good take but it ignores the actual history of the term is much like rape culture.

Rape culture was coined to discuss prison rape of men, and then appropriated by feminists and spammed constantly to reframe it and derail the original discussion. This is something their movement constantly does, utilizing its large amounts of influence over culture to render discussion of mens problems impossible by appropriating their language and distorting it.

Toxic masculinity originates as a concept from the mythopoetic mens movement which described it as pretty much what you just did, but only ever in contrast to "Deep" masculinity, and specifically, masculinity became toxic due to the destruction of male spaces, destruction and demonization of male solidarity and shifting to pitting men against eachother, removal of fathers from the home and so on, that feminism caused. (This is backed up by the fact fatherlessness tends to cause more toxic masculinity traits.). Masculinity was "Deep" through connection to other men and deepened by connection to other men.

This was, at the time it was coined, heretical to the feminist movement and the view of masculinity as the source of problems and something learned by men from men, hence the push to destroy male spaces, remove fathers, and so on.

The mythopoetic mens movement became defunct as its hippyish tendencies made it too strange, and basically rolled up into the MRM.

Feminist appropriation of the term and redefining it is another example of their movement being relentlessly hostile to men and their attempts to express their experience and form a discourse to deal with and discuss sexism against them, same as they did with "rape culture.".

You'll notice the feminist conception of it has conveniently erased the elements of the discourse that are most relevant and have used the term to argue for exactly the opposite of what it was coined.

[Valgora]

I don't see how the same logic implies that the woman in the relationship should do the majority of the chores.

Traditional gender roles state man is provider, woman is caretaker

But the man being a physical protector and doing manual labor doesn't really imply that the woman should do the majority of the chores.
Especially since there are chores that require manual labor.

[Vince Vaughn]

You think people would be willing to settle?

Not everyone gets to sleep with the cheerleader, other than Christie-Lou.. that girl..

I think a part is not about whether one can get laid, anyone can get laid to be fair, it's as much as whether you're with someone that reflects who you want to be, not always who you are.

The majority of people believe they are above average.

Think about it.

[Balican]

By that same logic, the woman in the relationship should do the majority of the chores. Is that considered sexist?

I don't see how the same logic implies that the woman in the relationship should do the majority of the chores.

By expecting the male to do the manual labor not being sexist, why is expecting the female to do the majority chores sexist?
I didn't see the below post, this thread is moving too fast for my liking.

But the man being a physical protector and doing manual labor doesn't really imply that the woman should do the majority of the chores.
Especially since there are chores that require manual labor.

I was essentially referring to this. The male doing yardwork/moving stuff/building stuff would be the manual labor. While the chores would consist of things like laundry, and dishes, and cleaning. I hope this clears things up, I'm really tired, so sorry for any confusion.

[Foryis]

Not everyone gets to sleep with the cheerleader, other than Christie-Lou.. that girl..

I think a part is not about whether one can get laid, anyone can get laid to be fair, it's as much as whether you're with someone that reflects who you want to be, not always who you are.

The majority of people believe they are above average.

Think about it.[/quote
Instagram and Tinder helped with that.

[Grenartia]

I do, actually. That's why I said what I fucking did. Nowhere in any of my posts have I denied the existence of objective truth. Learn to read, kiddo.

You don't seem to understand the concept very well.

I understand it just fine. You don't seem to read very well, despite my attempts to write in a way that you cannot possibly misunderstand.

I never said it did. If you knew how to read, you'd know that.

You seem to very think it did since you believe someone can be "more correct" than someone else.

That's a non-sequitur if I've ever seen one.

I never said it should be the only basis. I've already said as much. You have a serious problem with thinking I'm saying the exact opposite of what I actually am.

I assume that's why you tried to dismiss my entire argument based only on me being a man, and then disagreed with appeal to authority being a fallacious argument.

"Dismisssed my entire argumetn based only on me being a man" is quite the oversimplification. And yes, I do disagree with the idea that appeal to authority should be considered a fallacy.

Fucking of course there is. That's the entire reason the concept of 'accuracy' exists.

Apparently you don't understand this concept.

Apparently you don't understand that "accuracy" is a way of determining how correct something is.

Either objective truth exists, and accuracy is a way of measuring how close it is, or objective truth does not exist, in which case there's no use for accuracy.

I'll take "Things I never said" for $800, Alex.

"more correct"

Broken record.

[Valgora]

I don't see how the same logic implies that the woman in the relationship should do the majority of the chores.

By expecting the male to do the manual labor not being sexist, why is expecting the female to do the majority chores sexist?

Saying the male is expected to do manual labor doesn't mean the woman doesn't do manual labor.
And there are chores that require manual labor too.
And if the man does do all the manual labor, that doesn't mean the male and female can't split doing the chores 50-50.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Yes. I proposed to my husband actually. There's nothing wrong with a man being the sole provider and the woman being at home cooking meals, just the same as theres nothing wrong with the opposite.

Okay, so equality is not considered toxic-masculinity, but what is something definitively masculine that is not toxic?

Well honestly that goes into my general belief that gender roles are stupid to begin with but I'll use beards. Beards are often seen as important to male culture. One's facial hair often reflects the personality and culture of the individual. Many men spend long periods of time carefully grooming their hair to achieve the exact look they desire. I see this as masculine, and something men rightfully take pride in.

[Foryis]

Traditional gender roles state man is provider, woman is caretaker

But the man being a physical protector and doing manual labor doesn't really imply that the woman should do the majority of the chores.
Especially since there are chores that require manual labor.

If the man gets severely injured who is going to protect him?

[LiberNovusAmericae]

Can we outlaw both?

Dunno. Trump has expressed interest in banning porn at least. If the GOP gets a supermajority, I predict national restrictions on porn and prostitution, also ban on abortion and a reintroduction of DOMA.

Why can't we have the government stay out of our personal lives?

[Grenartia]

Phicksed.

Women say things are easier with other women, men say things are easier with other men. This leads me to believe that the problem isn't women or men, but with how society treats women and men.

Lack of open communication when it comes to issues of gender and relationships is definitely a big factor. As far as I can tell, and speaking from my own personal experiences as well, most guys learn how to flirt with girls exclusively from other guys... which is basically shitty anthropology applied to dating.

Quite accurate.