US Midterm Elections Megathread III: Hitting The Wall

[San Lumen]

Never said i was against coalition governments and how does not embraced the system I want mean im against free and fair elections.

And as I already said multiple times it is not about my party losing power!

Ok and if you get rid of districts do you expect non whites to get elected in any significant numbers? No the party would pick people they thought had the best of chance of getting them the most votes.

In an ideal system, people would elect representatives not based on their sex, race, or sexual orientation, but based on their suggested policies.

But you seem to not quite understand MLK's dream.

I don't care what someone's race, sex or sexual orientation is when casting a ballot. I voted for Letitia James in the Attorney general primary in New York not because she's black but because i thought she was the best candidate.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

In an ideal system, people would elect representatives not based on their sex, race, or sexual orientation, but based on their suggested policies.

But you seem to not quite understand MLK's dream.

I don't care what someone's race, sex or sexual orientation is when casting a ballot. I voted for Letitia James in the Attorney general primary not because she was black but because i thought she was the best candidate.

Then women/PoC/LGBT+ people will have no troubles being elected as long as their policies appeal to the people. There is no point playing the identity politics card.

Your policies suck, you don't get elected. A very simple thing to comprehend.

[Thermodolia]

Not those 14%. Or the 49.9% of people in my district. We don’t have a voice in government.


You’re hyperpartisan. You think government is all about winning. You also decry those who dare vote for a third party. Your opposition to free and fair democracy is because you don’t want the democrats to lose power. You’ve said it before that you don’t want coalition governments.


But giving non-whites equal rights was radical, giving women equal rights is radical, and giving LGBT people equal rights is definitely radical. It’s hypocritical to say that you don’t want to radically change things when you already support radical change.


How many times do I have to tell you that I don’t give a shit about districts. And that I would change that bit of the law if I needed too.


Because you’d still have Gerrymandering. You’d still have a two party system, with maybe a smaller third party. Nothing would change.


Because you aren’t accounting for overhang seats or leveling seats or how do you give out the proportional votes. There’s a lot of complicated math involved. Which if you think MMP is simple then you should have no problem with PR.

Also what do you think MMP is?


And yet you’re against coalition governments in a PR system

Never said i was against coalition governments

Really now?

How?

Israel has proportional representation and no election districts. The threshold to enter the Knesset is so low that extremist parties hold the balance of power. There has never been a majority government in the history of the country and its unlikely there will be anytime soon.

That might be more indicative of the Israeli voting population than the system itself.

How? The system makes it nearly impossible to get a majority government.

Which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

why not? extremist parties on the left and right hold the balance of power. Multiple parties need to form a coalition and if any one pulls out there is a new election.

Ya know lying is bad.

and how does not embraced the system I want mean im against free and fair elections.

This hurt my head.

And as I already said multiple times it is not about my party losing power!

Press X for doubt.

Ok and if you get rid of districts do you expect non whites to get elected in any significant numbers?

Yes actually quite a lot. The democrats aren’t going to just abandon the non-whites just because of a voting change switch. And if they do that says more about the democrats than you want.

No the party would pick people they thought had the best of chance of getting them the most votes.

That’s not how PR works. You don’t vote for candidates you vote for parties. So that would be silly for a party to do.

[San Lumen]

Never said i was against coalition governments

Really now?

Israel has proportional representation and no election districts. The threshold to enter the Knesset is so low that extremist parties hold the balance of power. There has never been a majority government in the history of the country and its unlikely there will be anytime soon.

How? The system makes it nearly impossible to get a majority government.

why not? extremist parties on the left and right hold the balance of power. Multiple parties need to form a coalition and if any one pulls out there is a new election.

Ya know lying is bad.

and how does not embraced the system I want mean im against free and fair elections.

This hurt my head.

And as I already said multiple times it is not about my party losing power!

Press X for doubt.

Ok and if you get rid of districts do you expect non whites to get elected in any significant numbers?

Yes actually quite a lot. The democrats aren’t going to just abandon the non-whites just because of a voting change switch. And if they do that says more about the democrats than you want.

No the party would pick people they thought had the best of chance of getting them the most votes.

That’s not how PR works. You don’t vote for candidates you vote for parties. So that would be silly for a party to do.

How was I lying?

What I meant to say was how does not embracing the system you want mean Im against free and fair elections?

How is having a unstable majority a good thing? In Israel because the threshold to enter the Knesset is so low extremist parties hold the balance of power. If they pull out of the coalition the government falls and a new election must be held.

[Shrillland]

To be fair, we wouldn't have coalition governments, just coalition house leadership. Our system of government with its three distinct branches precludes governments being set up in Congress... and hopefully, this will be the last I have to say on the subject since, like everyone else, this carousel is starting to bore me.

[Telconi]

Really now?




Ya know lying is bad.


This hurt my head.


Press X for doubt.


Yes actually quite a lot. The democrats aren’t going to just abandon the non-whites just because of a voting change switch. And if they do that says more about the democrats than you want.


That’s not how PR works. You don’t vote for candidates you vote for parties. So that would be silly for a party to do.

How was I lying?

What I meant to say was how does not embracing the system you want mean Im against free and fair elections?

How is having a unstable majority a good thing? In Israel because the threshold to enter the Knesset is so low extremist parties hold the balance of power. If they pull out of the coalition the government falls and a new election must be held.

So people shouldn't have representation because they might disagree?

What ever happened to those elections, the ones you call free and fair?

[Genivaria]

To be fair, we wouldn't have coalition governments, just coalition house leadership. Our system of government with its three distinct branches precludes governments being set up in Congress... and hopefully, this will be the last I have to say on the subject since, like everyone else, this carousel is starting to bore me.

This is true actually, since we don't have a prime minister chosen by the majority of the legislature.

[Thermodolia]

To be fair, we wouldn't have coalition governments, just coalition house leadership. Our system of government with its three distinct branches precludes governments being set up in Congress... and hopefully, this will be the last I have to say on the subject since, like everyone else, this carousel is starting to bore me.

Well ya. But I’d rather have a federal semi-Presidential Republic than what we got now. But that’s not really a major issue

[Thermodolia]

Really now?




Ya know lying is bad.


This hurt my head.


Press X for doubt.


Yes actually quite a lot. The democrats aren’t going to just abandon the non-whites just because of a voting change switch. And if they do that says more about the democrats than you want.


That’s not how PR works. You don’t vote for candidates you vote for parties. So that would be silly for a party to do.

How was I lying?

You claimed that you never said you where against coalition governments. I proved that to be wrong.

What I meant to say was how does not embracing the system you want mean Im against free and fair elections?

Because you think that 14% or 49.9% of the population doesn’t matter. That’s not being for free and fair elections.

How is having a unstable majority a good thing?

Generally coalitions aren’t unstable and are made up of like minded parties.

In Israel because the threshold to enter the Knesset is so low extremist parties hold the balance of power.

Actually that’s more because of Israel’s voting patterns and not the low threshold. Spain and Greece have lower thresholds and yet they don’t have extremist parties running the show.

If they pull out of the coalition the government falls and a new election must be held.

Actually in most systems a new governing coalition would attempt to form if one can’t a new election is called. And I really don’t see an issue with that.

[San Lumen]

How was I lying?

You claimed that you never said you where against coalition governments. I proved that to be wrong.

What I meant to say was how does not embracing the system you want mean Im against free and fair elections?

Because you think that 14% or 49.9% of the population doesn’t matter. That’s not being for free and fair elections.

How is having a unstable majority a good thing?

Generally coalitions aren’t unstable and are made up of like minded parties.

In Israel because the threshold to enter the Knesset is so low extremist parties hold the balance of power.

Actually that’s more because of Israel’s voting patterns and not the low threshold. Spain and Greece have lower thresholds and yet they don’t have extremist parties running the show.

If they pull out of the coalition the government falls and a new election must be held.

Actually in most systems a new governing coalition would attempt to form if one can’t a new election is called. And I really don’t see an issue with that.

I never said people dont matter. But to change the whole system so a small minority is represented such as in Albany or Baltimore is ridiculous. The minor parties in this country I doubt would get propelled into power overnight. The minor parties in New York are a joke. They almost never put up their own candidates and have no plan whatsoever.

If you and others really want the system changed get a referendum on the ballot or run for state legislature otherwise nothing os going to change.

[Thermodolia]

You claimed that you never said you where against coalition governments. I proved that to be wrong.


Because you think that 14% or 49.9% of the population doesn’t matter. That’s not being for free and fair elections.


Generally coalitions aren’t unstable and are made up of like minded parties.


Actually that’s more because of Israel’s voting patterns and not the low threshold. Spain and Greece have lower thresholds and yet they don’t have extremist parties running the show.


Actually in most systems a new governing coalition would attempt to form if one can’t a new election is called. And I really don’t see an issue with that.

I never said people dont matter. But to change the whole system so a small minority is represented such as in Albany or Baltimore is ridiculous.

>says that they never said people don’t matter
>proceeds to say that people in the minority don’t matter

I’m loving the mental gymnastics here Lumen.

The minor parties in this country I doubt would get propelled into power overnight.

You’d be quite surprised. Only 29% of the population truly supports the democrats, 28% for the republicans. That leaves a huge chunk that would flock to other parties almost instantaneously under PR system.

The minor parties in New York are a joke. They almost never put up their own candidates and have no plan whatsoever.

Probably because that’s the only way they can exist. Under FPTP and IRV the top two parties rule the government and kill all opposition.

If you and others really want the system changed get a referendum on the ballot or run for state legislature otherwise nothing os going to change.

Why do you offer such cop-out and canned answers? No politician in their right mind is going to give up power. We need a revolution to remind the politicians that they work for us.

[San Lumen]

I never said people dont matter. But to change the whole system so a small minority is represented such as in Albany or Baltimore is ridiculous.

>says that they never said people don’t matter
>proceeds to say that people in the minority don’t matter

I’m loving the mental gymnastics here Lumen.

The minor parties in this country I doubt would get propelled into power overnight.

You’d be quite surprised. Only 29% of the population truly supports the democrats, 28% for the republicans. That leaves a huge chunk that would flock to other parties almost instantaneously under PR system.

The minor parties in New York are a joke. They almost never put up their own candidates and have no plan whatsoever.

Probably because that’s the only way they can exist. Under FPTP and IRV the top two parties rule the government and kill all opposition.

If you and others really want the system changed get a referendum on the ballot or run for state legislature otherwise nothing os going to change.

Why do you offer such cop-out and canned answers? No politician in their right mind is going to give up power. We need a revolution to remind the politicians that they work for us.

Did you not read what I wrote when i said the minor parties in New York have no plan and are literal jokes?

And whose going to lead this revolution? We can't coup our way to everything. There is something called a referendum. That's how you change the system not by a revolution or coup.

[Thermodolia]

>says that they never said people don’t matter
>proceeds to say that people in the minority don’t matter

I’m loving the mental gymnastics here Lumen.


You’d be quite surprised. Only 29% of the population truly supports the democrats, 28% for the republicans. That leaves a huge chunk that would flock to other parties almost instantaneously under PR system.


Probably because that’s the only way they can exist. Under FPTP and IRV the top two parties rule the government and kill all opposition.


Why do you offer such cop-out and canned answers? No politician in their right mind is going to give up power. We need a revolution to remind the politicians that they work for us.

Did you not read what I wrote when i said the minor parties in New York have no plan and are literal jokes

And did you not read my counter?

And whose going to lead this revolution?

Nice try FBI

We can't coup our way to everything. There is something called a referendum. That's how you change the system not by a revolution or coup.

And the powers that be will never let a national referendum on voting reform pass. Why? Because it kicks them out of power. At a certain point the system becomes so broken that a revolution is the only way to fix it.

I feel that if we where back in the US before the revolution you would be arguing for attempting change within the system instead of outright revolution.

[San Lumen]

Did you not read what I wrote when i said the minor parties in New York have no plan and are literal jokes

And did you not read my counter?

And whose going to lead this revolution?

Nice try FBI

We can't coup our way to everything. There is something called a referendum. That's how you change the system not by a revolution or coup.

And the powers that be will never let a national referendum on voting reform pass. Why? Because it kicks them out of power. At a certain point the system becomes so broken that a revolution is the only way to fix it.

I feel that if we where back in the US before the revolution you would be arguing for attempting change within the system instead of outright revolution.

That does not answer my questions as to whose going to lead this revolution

There is no precedent nor mechanism for a national referendum. Elections are state affairs. Voting reform managed to pass in Maine and several municipalities. Several states voted to ban gerrymandering this year. How did that happen?

Perhaps I might not have wanted war immediately but I would have supported the rebel cause eventually most likely.

But do tell who is going to lead this coup or revolt this time around?

[Thermodolia]

And did you not read my counter?


Nice try FBI


And the powers that be will never let a national referendum on voting reform pass. Why? Because it kicks them out of power. At a certain point the system becomes so broken that a revolution is the only way to fix it.

I feel that if we where back in the US before the revolution you would be arguing for attempting change within the system instead of outright revolution.

That does not answer my questions as to whose going to lead this revolution

I don’t have to tell you shit. Also a good revolution never reveals their leadership until after the fact.

There is no precedent nor mechanism for a national referendum. Elections are state affairs. Voting reform managed to pass in Maine and several municipalities. Several states voted to ban gerrymandering this year. How did that happen?

Again these are just treating the symptoms and the majority of them are ways of pandering to the voting reform crowd while not actually being voting reform or weakening the power base of the powers that be.

Perhaps I might not have wanted war immediately but I would have supported the rebel cause eventually most likely

Only after it has already started because of people like me

But do tell who is going to lead this coup or revolt this time around?

Nice try FBI

[San Lumen]

That does not answer my questions as to whose going to lead this revolution

I don’t have to tell you shit. Also a good revolution never reveals their leadership until after the fact.

There is no precedent nor mechanism for a national referendum. Elections are state affairs. Voting reform managed to pass in Maine and several municipalities. Several states voted to ban gerrymandering this year. How did that happen?

Again these are just treating the symptoms and the majority of them are ways of pandering to the voting reform crowd while not actually being voting reform or weakening the power base of the powers that be.

Perhaps I might not have wanted war immediately but I would have supported the rebel cause eventually most likely

Only after it has already started because of people like me

But do tell who is going to lead this coup or revolt this time around?

Nice try FBI

No get a petition together for a referendum on PR. Elections are not national affairs therefore you cannot have a national referendum

What the heck does nice try FBI mean? Who is going to lead this revolution? The military, a citizens militia march on Atlanta?

[Thermodolia]

I don’t have to tell you shit. Also a good revolution never reveals their leadership until after the fact.


Again these are just treating the symptoms and the majority of them are ways of pandering to the voting reform crowd while not actually being voting reform or weakening the power base of the powers that be.


Only after it has already started because of people like me


Nice try FBI

No get a petition together for a referendum on PR. Elections are not national affairs therefore you cannot have a national referendum

Either you are intentionally being obtuse or you really don’t understand what I’m saying.

What the heck does nice try FBI mean? Who is going to lead this revolution? The military, a citizens militia march on Atlanta?

Have you never heard of memes? Again nice try NSA.

[San Lumen]

No get a petition together for a referendum on PR. Elections are not national affairs therefore you cannot have a national referendum

Either you are intentionally being obtuse or you really don’t understand what I’m saying.

What the heck does nice try FBI mean? Who is going to lead this revolution? The military, a citizens militia march on Atlanta?

Have you never heard of memes? Again nice try NSA.

How else are you going to get what you want? We can't just have a coup. I doubt your going to have the peoples support

I know what memes are but I dont get your point

[Thermodolia]

Either you are intentionally being obtuse or you really don’t understand what I’m saying.


Have you never heard of memes? Again nice try NSA.

How else are you going to get what you want? We can't just have a coup. I doubt your going to have the peoples support

I haven’t said anything about a coup. You’re the one saying that. We need a revolution or at the very least a brand new constitution. The system is broken. And I think people would support a revolution that gives them more freedom in how the government is run.

I know what memes are but I dont get your point

I’m not going to tell you anything about how a revolution would go down so you can stop asking about it. How’s that?!

[San Lumen]

How else are you going to get what you want? We can't just have a coup. I doubt your going to have the peoples support

I haven’t said anything about a coup. You’re the one saying that. We need a revolution or at the very least a brand new constitution. The system is broken. And I think people would support a revolution that gives them more freedom in how the government is run.

I know what memes are but I dont get your point

I’m not going to tell you anything about how a revolution would go down so you can stop asking about it. How’s that?!

So go tell friends of yours in the military or National Guard to start one then.

If your not going to say it why say you want one?

[Thermodolia]

I haven’t said anything about a coup. You’re the one saying that. We need a revolution or at the very least a brand new constitution. The system is broken. And I think people would support a revolution that gives them more freedom in how the government is run.


I’m not going to tell you anything about how a revolution would go down so you can stop asking about it. How’s that?!

So go tell friends of yours in the military or National Guard to start one then.

If your not going to say it why say you want one?

Do you just not listen to anything?

[Corrian]

Can we just kill this thread already? It basically serves no purpose.

Unless we're waiting for the new government to be seated.

[Luminesa]

Can we just kill this thread already? It basically serves no purpose.

Unless we're waiting for the new government to be seated.

*Holds the nuke-button ready.*

[Luminesa]

I haven’t said anything about a coup. You’re the one saying that. We need a revolution or at the very least a brand new constitution. The system is broken. And I think people would support a revolution that gives them more freedom in how the government is run.


I’m not going to tell you anything about how a revolution would go down so you can stop asking about it. How’s that?!

So go tell friends of yours in the military or National Guard to start one then.

If your not going to say it why say you want one?

...That's...not how that works my dude.

[Maineiacs]

So go tell friends of yours in the military or National Guard to start one then.

If your not going to say it why say you want one?

...That's...not how that works my dude.

I think that was Lumen's point; that Therm can't just round up a couple of his drinking buddies and launch a coup.