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US Midterm Elections Megathread III: Hitting The Wall

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Major-Tom
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15690
Founded: Mar 09, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Major-Tom » Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:29 pm

Freezic Vast wrote:
Communist Xomaniax wrote:Democracy is flawed because your views are odious and unpopular?

No, Democracy is flawed because of people like you.


In other words, democracy is flawed because people who I disagree with have a say.

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:31 pm

Frievolk wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Black people's desire for freedom is the problem, not the institution of slavery!

This might be the single falsest equivalence I've ever seen on this site, and that's saying something.


I'm sure you have a reasoning for his, other than "but nuh uh!"
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:34 pm

Major-Tom wrote:
Freezic Vast wrote:No, Democracy is flawed because of people like you.


In other words, democracy is flawed because people who I disagree with have a say.


I would say that this particular democracy is flawed because people I disagree with have an oppressive say.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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Frievolk
Minister
 
Posts: 3368
Founded: Jun 14, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Frievolk » Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:35 pm

Telconi wrote:
Frievolk wrote:This might be the single falsest equivalence I've ever seen on this site, and that's saying something.


I'm sure you have a reasoning for his, other than "but nuh uh!"

Alright.
We have two scenarios:
Scenario one: You can't allow the minority to trample the majority's rights because they don't like the majority's views/the majority has its views implemented.

Scenario two: The Slavers can and do trample over the slaves (being the majority in a slave society) because the slaves have no rights.

Therefore Slavery == democracy.

And yes. I did simplify your """""""""""argument""""""""""" on purpose so even you can get how fucking stupid it is.
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San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 81247
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:35 pm

Telconi wrote:
Major-Tom wrote:
In other words, democracy is flawed because people who I disagree with have a say.


I would say that this particular democracy is flawed because people I disagree with have an oppressive say.

Yeah how dare people have the audacity to disagree with you

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Freezic Vast
Minister
 
Posts: 3219
Founded: Jul 30, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Freezic Vast » Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:37 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Telconi wrote:
I would say that this particular democracy is flawed because people I disagree with have an oppressive say.

Yeah how dare people have the audacity to disagree with you

Oh the irony.
20 year old, male from Pennsylvania and proud of it. Love sports like football, baseball and hockey, enjoy video games and TV. Music is love, music is life. I'm bi and conservative.
Nothing Breaks Like A Heart by Mark Ronson ft. Miley Cyrus
Tired, and bored, need sleep.

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San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 81247
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:38 pm

Freezic Vast wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Yeah how dare people have the audacity to disagree with you

Oh the irony.

I ask again was the governor election in your state unfair because your candidate lost even though they won more land area?

User avatar
Major-Tom
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15690
Founded: Mar 09, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Major-Tom » Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:38 pm

Telconi wrote:
Major-Tom wrote:
In other words, democracy is flawed because people who I disagree with have a say.


I would say that this particular democracy is flawed because people I disagree with have an oppressive say.


How do you reach that conclusion? The Republicans hold the Senate, Presidency, and arguably the Supreme Court is as conservative as it has been in decades.

I find it strange to have a notion that the minority party in this country is able to have an oppressive say when they're not really in control. Add on the fact that the people I know you agree with actually have a strong propensity to unfair voter laws (see Georgia), where they actually lean towards the idea of suppression, I just don't know how you could say those you disagree with have an oppressive say.

It's quite the logical leap.

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Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:38 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Telconi wrote:
I would say that this particular democracy is flawed because people I disagree with have an oppressive say.

Yeah how dare people have the audacity to disagree with you


I have no problem with people who disagree with me, I have a problem when they enforce their disagreeing views on me.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:40 pm

Major-Tom wrote:
Telconi wrote:
I would say that this particular democracy is flawed because people I disagree with have an oppressive say.


How do you reach that conclusion? The Republicans hold the Senate, Presidency, and arguably the Supreme Court is as conservative as it has been in decades.

I find it strange to have a notion that the minority party in this country is able to have an oppressive say when they're not really in control. Add on the fact that the people I know you agree with actually have a strong propensity to unfair voter laws (see Georgia), where they actually lean towards the idea of suppression, I just don't know how you could say those you disagree with have an oppressive say.

It's quite the logical leap.


Only if you operate from the flawed assumption that I agree with your alleged majority.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44696
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:40 pm

Telconi wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Yeah how dare people have the audacity to disagree with you


I have no problem with people who disagree with me, I have a problem when they enforce their disagreeing views on me.

How dare everyone else vote.
Abolitionism in the North has leagued itself with Radical Democracy, and so the Slave Power was forced to ally itself with the Money Power; that is the great fact of the age.




The triumph of the Democracy is essential to the struggle of popular liberty


Currently Rehabilitating: Martin Van Buren, Benjamin Harrison, and Woodrow Wilson
Currently Vilifying: George Washington, Theodore Roosevelt, and Jimmy Carter

User avatar
Major-Tom
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15690
Founded: Mar 09, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Major-Tom » Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:40 pm

Telconi wrote:
Major-Tom wrote:
How do you reach that conclusion? The Republicans hold the Senate, Presidency, and arguably the Supreme Court is as conservative as it has been in decades.

I find it strange to have a notion that the minority party in this country is able to have an oppressive say when they're not really in control. Add on the fact that the people I know you agree with actually have a strong propensity to unfair voter laws (see Georgia), where they actually lean towards the idea of suppression, I just don't know how you could say those you disagree with have an oppressive say.

It's quite the logical leap.


Only if you operate from the flawed assumption that I agree with your alleged majority.


My presumption was that you vaguely aligned with the GOP and prefer them to the Democrats/Liberals, who I presumed you think have an oppressive say. If I'm wrong, then I apologize.

User avatar
Valrifell
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31063
Founded: Aug 18, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Valrifell » Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:40 pm

Kowani wrote:
Telconi wrote:
I have no problem with people who disagree with me, I have a problem when they enforce their disagreeing views on me.

How dare everyone else vote.


Democracy would be perfect if I were the only one voting.
HAVING AN ALL CAPS SIG MAKES ME FEEL SMART

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Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:41 pm

Kowani wrote:
Telconi wrote:
I have no problem with people who disagree with me, I have a problem when they enforce their disagreeing views on me.

How dare everyone else vote.


I doubt un-inhibited majority rule is something you truly want.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
The South Falls
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13353
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The South Falls » Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:41 pm

Telconi wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Yeah how dare people have the audacity to disagree with you


I have no problem with people who disagree with me, I have a problem when they enforce their disagreeing views on me.

I mean, if they make laws you don't like, protest them. Run yourself. Saying that they shouldn't be allowed to exist because of it doesn't make sense.
This is an MT nation that reflects some of my beliefs, trade deals and debate always welcome! Call me TeaSF. A level 8, according to This Index.


Political Compass Results:

Economic: -5.5
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.51
I make dumb jokes. I'm really serious about that.

User avatar
Freezic Vast
Minister
 
Posts: 3219
Founded: Jul 30, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Freezic Vast » Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:41 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Freezic Vast wrote:Oh the irony.

I ask again was the governor election in your state unfair because your candidate lost even though they won more land area?

And I answered your question month ago, I'm not gonna repeat myself for you because you have memory loss apparently. I ask what is so great about this map of California?

Image
20 year old, male from Pennsylvania and proud of it. Love sports like football, baseball and hockey, enjoy video games and TV. Music is love, music is life. I'm bi and conservative.
Nothing Breaks Like A Heart by Mark Ronson ft. Miley Cyrus
Tired, and bored, need sleep.

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 81247
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:42 pm

Freezic Vast wrote:
San Lumen wrote:I ask again was the governor election in your state unfair because your candidate lost even though they won more land area?

And I answered your question month ago, I'm not gonna repeat myself for you because you have memory loss apparently. I ask what is so great about this map of California?

Image

So therefore your vote ought to count more for statewide office because you have less population

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:42 pm

Major-Tom wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Only if you operate from the flawed assumption that I agree with your alleged majority.


My presumption was that you vaguely aligned with the GOP and prefer them to the Democrats/Liberals, who I presumed you think have an oppressive say. If I'm wrong, then I apologize.


I 'vaguely align' with a lot of folks, that's so vague as to be a worthless metric.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
The South Falls
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13353
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The South Falls » Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:43 pm

Freezic Vast wrote:
San Lumen wrote:I ask again was the governor election in your state unfair because your candidate lost even though they won more land area?

And I answered your question month ago, I'm not gonna repeat myself for you because you have memory loss apparently. I ask what is so great about this map of California?

Image

You act as if democratic gerrymandering is the only sort of gerrymandering in our Congress.
Last edited by The South Falls on Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
This is an MT nation that reflects some of my beliefs, trade deals and debate always welcome! Call me TeaSF. A level 8, according to This Index.


Political Compass Results:

Economic: -5.5
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.51
I make dumb jokes. I'm really serious about that.

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:43 pm

The South Falls wrote:
Telconi wrote:
I have no problem with people who disagree with me, I have a problem when they enforce their disagreeing views on me.

I mean, if they make laws you don't like, protest them. Run yourself. Saying that they shouldn't be allowed to exist because of it doesn't make sense.


It makes perfect sense, and it's done literally all the time.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Freezic Vast
Minister
 
Posts: 3219
Founded: Jul 30, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Freezic Vast » Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:43 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Freezic Vast wrote:And I answered your question month ago, I'm not gonna repeat myself for you because you have memory loss apparently. I ask what is so great about this map of California?

Image

So therefore your vote ought to count more for statewide office because you have less population

Do you not understand what I am saying, I answered it before, I'm not answering it again, your question is irrelevant and you have failed to answer my question.
20 year old, male from Pennsylvania and proud of it. Love sports like football, baseball and hockey, enjoy video games and TV. Music is love, music is life. I'm bi and conservative.
Nothing Breaks Like A Heart by Mark Ronson ft. Miley Cyrus
Tired, and bored, need sleep.

User avatar
Major-Tom
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15690
Founded: Mar 09, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Major-Tom » Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:44 pm

Telconi wrote:
Major-Tom wrote:
My presumption was that you vaguely aligned with the GOP and prefer them to the Democrats/Liberals, who I presumed you think have an oppressive say. If I'm wrong, then I apologize.


I 'vaguely align' with a lot of folks, that's so vague as to be a worthless metric.


In that case, who are those who you would say have an oppressive say, if anyone?

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 81247
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:44 pm

Freezic Vast wrote:
San Lumen wrote:So therefore your vote ought to count more for statewide office because you have less population

Do you not understand what I am saying, I answered it before, I'm not answering it again, your question is irrelevant and you have failed to answer my question.

No it’s not irrelevant. You simply don’t like you have less population and think the system ought to be rigged in your favor. It fairly represents the people that map
Last edited by San Lumen on Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:45 pm

Major-Tom wrote:
Telconi wrote:
I 'vaguely align' with a lot of folks, that's so vague as to be a worthless metric.


In that case, who are those who you would say have an oppressive say, if anyone?


Our governmen..
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 81247
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:46 pm

Telconi wrote:
Major-Tom wrote:
In that case, who are those who you would say have an oppressive say, if anyone?


Our governmen..

Yeah how dare anyone vote who disagrees with you

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