NATION

PASSWORD

US Midterm Elections Megathread III: Hitting The Wall

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Advertisement

Remove ads

User avatar
Reikoku
Senator
 
Posts: 3645
Founded: Apr 01, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Reikoku » Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:42 pm

Senkaku wrote:
Reikoku wrote:
Though NYC becoming the new Athens would be cool.

nyc can't even keep the fucking subway running, I'm pretty sure it can't subjugate America


I said "cool," I didn't say "possible."

User avatar
Valrifell
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20786
Founded: Aug 18, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Valrifell » Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:43 pm

Senkaku wrote:
Shrillland wrote:
So yes, what India did with the Rajya Sabha. Its makeup is more or less what you're suggesting. Nonetheless, that runs contrary to one of the founding tenets of our country, that all of the states should be equal regardless of size.

TRICAMERAL GANG


Why stop there?! We could go quadracameral or even PENTACAMERAL! Hexacameral is off limits, tho, verboten knowledge.
I like to imagine Sisyphus happy
I did some things

How not to debate: put snarky things implicitly calling out other posters in your sig

User avatar
Conserative Morality
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 76428
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Conserative Morality » Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:43 pm

Soldati Senza Confini wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:There is exactly no difference between the house of representatives, which is elected by the voting population directly, and a senate the likes that is proposed: elected by the voting population directly.

t. an opponent of the 17th amendment

See? I can ignore literally everything else to make retarded comparisons as well.


I mean, if you don't want to define it just because my question seems confrontational is fine, but you are the one who is allowing a bad interpretation of it by not clarifying when someone asks you to.

Literally clarified where you underlined, not my fault you don't feel like reading that which you emphasized in my post.
On the hate train. Choo choo, bitches. Bi-Polar. Proud Crypto-Fascist and Turbo Progressive. Dirty Étatist. Lowly Humanities Major. NSG's Best Liberal.
Caesar and Imperator of RWDT
Got a blog up again. || An NS Writing Discussion

User avatar
Soldati Senza Confini
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 86050
Founded: Mar 11, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Soldati Senza Confini » Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:44 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
Soldati Senza Confini wrote:
I mean, if you don't want to define it just because my question seems confrontational is fine, but you are the one who is allowing a bad interpretation of it by not clarifying when someone asks you to.

Literally clarified where you underlined, not my fault you don't feel like reading that which you emphasized in my post.


If you did I wouldn't have to ask you to clarify it in the first place, boyo.
Soldati senza confini: Better than an iPod in shuffle more with 20,000 songs.
Tekania wrote:Welcome to NSG, where informed opinions get to bump-heads with ignorant ideology under the pretense of an equal footing.

"When it’s a choice of putting food on the table, or thinking about your morals, it’s easier to say you’d think about your morals, but only if you’ve never faced that decision." - Anastasia Richardson

Current Goal: Flesh out nation factbook.

User avatar
Shrillland
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9448
Founded: Apr 12, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Shrillland » Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:44 pm

Tarsonis wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:They shouldn't. Good thing I am not recommending rule by city-state.


You really are. CA and NY are two of three most populace states of the union and the politics are pretty much dominated by their major cities. Many people Buffalo and rural favor cutting NYC out if Nay stars because they dominate the state politics. What you propose is exactly that. The populous states will dominate politics while the less populous states will be dictated to, even though cultures and needs are different.


Say rather five states instead of two. When we say cities would rule, it's kind of a misnomer, we mean urban areas as a whole. There's a difference between the 12 million that make up NY and LA and the 50 million that make up their metro areas as a whole, but it's the latter that we actually see as a problem.
Help a fellow NSGer(Eternal Lotharia) become a city councillor!
Factbook
Embassy
25 Days since the 2020 Megathread was 2016-jacked Maximum Period without 2016-jack: 25 Days
In 1963, Doctor Who taught us all we need to know about politics when a cave woman said, "Old men see no further than tomorrow's meat".

User avatar
Senkaku
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16493
Founded: Sep 01, 2012
Father Knows Best State

Postby Senkaku » Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:45 pm

Tarsonis wrote:Why should LA and NYC get to dictate nationwide policy?

Also ik I've been rather rude triple posting but I'd just like to say-

When people say this, what they're basically saying is "why should a majority of the American people (who, by and large, live in urban areas and on the coasts, but LA and NYC are easily villainized metonyms for places with lots of scary brown urbanites) get to dictate national policy?"

But it sounds better when you can cast democracy as some terrifying regime of imperial rule by distant coastal cities over the REAL American people living in the long-suffering heartland :roll:
Instagay

Athrax wrote:
Gauthier wrote:How many times a month did Kennedy visit Dallas?


Only once. He got a mindblowing reception though

The Nuclear Fist wrote:Just try and find a seat without getting your bollocks stuck in a light socket.

Lunas Legion wrote:That's NS for you. It has 2 speeds; a rape train with no brakes or brakes with no train.

Diopolis wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:Sanders/Trump 2016

Mexico will pay for our universal healthcare!

The Empire of Pretantia wrote:
Dogmeat wrote:The strobe was a little much.

But then the beat dropped and it was just perfect.

User avatar
Soldati Senza Confini
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 86050
Founded: Mar 11, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Soldati Senza Confini » Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:45 pm

Shrillland wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:
You really are. CA and NY are two of three most populace states of the union and the politics are pretty much dominated by their major cities. Many people Buffalo and rural favor cutting NYC out if Nay stars because they dominate the state politics. What you propose is exactly that. The populous states will dominate politics while the less populous states will be dictated to, even though cultures and needs are different.


Say rather five states instead of two. When we say cities would rule, it's kind of a misnomer, we mean urban areas as a whole. There's a difference between the 12 million that make up NY and LA and the 50 million that make up their metro areas as a whole, but it's the latter that we actually see as a problem.


Why should urban areas dictate what happens in the rest of the country?
Soldati senza confini: Better than an iPod in shuffle more with 20,000 songs.
Tekania wrote:Welcome to NSG, where informed opinions get to bump-heads with ignorant ideology under the pretense of an equal footing.

"When it’s a choice of putting food on the table, or thinking about your morals, it’s easier to say you’d think about your morals, but only if you’ve never faced that decision." - Anastasia Richardson

Current Goal: Flesh out nation factbook.

User avatar
Len Hyet
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10701
Founded: Jun 25, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Len Hyet » Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:46 pm

Senkaku wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:Why should LA and NYC get to dictate nationwide policy?

Also ik I've been rather rude triple posting but I'd just like to say-

When people say this, what they're basically saying is "why should a majority of the American people (who, by and large, live in urban areas and on the coasts, but LA and NYC are easily villainized metonyms for places with lots of scary brown urbanites) get to dictate national policy?"

But it sounds better when you can cast democracy as some terrifying regime of imperial rule by distant coastal cities over the REAL American people living in the long-suffering heartland :roll:

Direct democracy sucks in every way shape and form.

Republicanism isn't great, but it's better.

Federalism is even better.

And oh what I wouldn't do for a Heinleinian Confederacy.
=][= Founder, 1st NSG Irregulars. Our Militia is Well Regulated and Well Lubricated!

On a recently declared one-man campaign to elevate the discourse of you heathens.

User avatar
Conserative Morality
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 76428
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Conserative Morality » Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:46 pm

Soldati Senza Confini wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:Literally clarified where you underlined, not my fault you don't feel like reading that which you emphasized in my post.


If you did I wouldn't have to ask you to clarify it in the first place, boyo.

>> not reading a post lambasting you for not reading

Astounding.
Senkaku wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:Why should LA and NYC get to dictate nationwide policy?

Also ik I've been rather rude triple posting but I'd just like to say-

When people say this, what they're basically saying is "why should a majority of the American people (who, by and large, live in urban areas and on the coasts, but LA and NYC are easily villainized metonyms for places with lots of scary brown urbanites) get to dictate national policy?"

But it sounds better when you can cast democracy as some terrifying regime of imperial rule by distant coastal cities over the REAL American people living in the long-suffering heartland :roll:

"We r not a democracy"
On the hate train. Choo choo, bitches. Bi-Polar. Proud Crypto-Fascist and Turbo Progressive. Dirty Étatist. Lowly Humanities Major. NSG's Best Liberal.
Caesar and Imperator of RWDT
Got a blog up again. || An NS Writing Discussion

User avatar
Shrillland
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9448
Founded: Apr 12, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Shrillland » Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:47 pm

Senkaku wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:Why should LA and NYC get to dictate nationwide policy?

Also ik I've been rather rude triple posting but I'd just like to say-

When people say this, what they're basically saying is "why should a majority of the American people (who, by and large, live in urban areas and on the coasts, but LA and NYC are easily villainized metonyms for places with lots of scary brown urbanites) get to dictate national policy?"

But it sounds better when you can cast democracy as some terrifying regime of imperial rule by distant coastal cities over the REAL American people living in the long-suffering heartland :roll:


No, it's a legitimate question when the system is set up so only one set of interests and ideals is given total control. And race doesn't come into it..at least not in my view.
Help a fellow NSGer(Eternal Lotharia) become a city councillor!
Factbook
Embassy
25 Days since the 2020 Megathread was 2016-jacked Maximum Period without 2016-jack: 25 Days
In 1963, Doctor Who taught us all we need to know about politics when a cave woman said, "Old men see no further than tomorrow's meat".

User avatar
Tarsonis
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7856
Founded: Sep 20, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Tarsonis » Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:48 pm

Senkaku wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:Why should LA and NYC get to dictate nationwide policy?

Also ik I've been rather rude triple posting but I'd just like to say-

When people say this, what they're basically saying is "why should a majority of the American people (who, by and large, live in urban areas and on the coasts, but LA and NYC are easily villainized metonyms for places with lots of scary brown urbanites) get to dictate national policy?"

But it sounds better when you can cast democracy as some terrifying regime of imperial rule by distant coastal cities over the REAL American people living in the long-suffering heartland :roll:


Yeah I don’t actually give a shit about racial demographics. Shove your race baiting up your ass
Last edited by Tarsonis on Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Proud NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005.
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Galatians 6:7 " Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

User avatar
Senkaku
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16493
Founded: Sep 01, 2012
Father Knows Best State

Postby Senkaku » Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:49 pm

Shrillland wrote:
Senkaku wrote:TRICAMERAL GANG


Why tricameral? What would the third house's use be?

Y'all want to keep the Senate, CM wants a more proportional thing, so why not compromise and do both

Shrillland wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:
You really are. CA and NY are two of three most populace states of the union and the politics are pretty much dominated by their major cities. Many people Buffalo and rural favor cutting NYC out if Nay stars because they dominate the state politics. What you propose is exactly that. The populous states will dominate politics while the less populous states will be dictated to, even though cultures and needs are different.


Say rather five states instead of two. When we say cities would rule, it's kind of a misnomer, we mean urban areas as a whole. There's a difference between the 12 million that make up NY and LA and the 50 million that make up their metro areas as a whole, but it's the latter that we actually see as a problem.

I mean, for starters those 50 million are less politically homogeneous than you give them credit for (@Staten Island and Orange County, for example), and secondly- if a majority or large plurality of the American people are concentrated in the metro areas/combined statistical regions surrounding several major cities, what the fuck is wrong with giving them adequate representation?

The real issue here is that some people happen not to agree with the party that tends to do well in many large regions of those metropolitan areas, so they paint giving them adequate representation as giving them undue power.

Soldati Senza Confini wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:There is exactly no difference between the house of representatives, which is elected by the voting population directly, and a senate the likes that is proposed: elected by the voting population directly.

t. an opponent of the 17th amendment

See? I can ignore literally everything else to make retarded comparisons as well.


I mean, if you don't want to define it just because my question seems confrontational is fine, but you are the one who is allowing a bad interpretation of it by not clarifying when someone asks you to.

I think CM already identified single-member districts in speaking of election directly by the voting population, though I could be mistaken, and STV rather than FPTP like the Rajya Sabha is a big change, so characterizing there as being "exactly no difference" is quite silly, and being belligerent about your error is even sillier
Last edited by Senkaku on Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Instagay

Athrax wrote:
Gauthier wrote:How many times a month did Kennedy visit Dallas?


Only once. He got a mindblowing reception though

The Nuclear Fist wrote:Just try and find a seat without getting your bollocks stuck in a light socket.

Lunas Legion wrote:That's NS for you. It has 2 speeds; a rape train with no brakes or brakes with no train.

Diopolis wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:Sanders/Trump 2016

Mexico will pay for our universal healthcare!

The Empire of Pretantia wrote:
Dogmeat wrote:The strobe was a little much.

But then the beat dropped and it was just perfect.

User avatar
Conserative Morality
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 76428
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Conserative Morality » Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:52 pm

Shrillland wrote:No, it's a legitimate question when the system is set up so only one set of interests and ideals is given total control. And race doesn't come into it..at least not in my view.

Tell me, how has that interplay of interests and ideals worked out for us? Increasing polarization, crippled national government, inability to respond to serious national concerns with coherent policy, rampant corruption, pork for miles...

The founding of this country was dependent, explicitly stated by many of the Founding Fathers, on the idea that we all had more-or-less the same general goal for the nation; that we were one nation of many parts. The nation has quadrupled in size and become a breeding ground for several conflicting ideologies. That is no longer the case.
On the hate train. Choo choo, bitches. Bi-Polar. Proud Crypto-Fascist and Turbo Progressive. Dirty Étatist. Lowly Humanities Major. NSG's Best Liberal.
Caesar and Imperator of RWDT
Got a blog up again. || An NS Writing Discussion

User avatar
Soldati Senza Confini
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 86050
Founded: Mar 11, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Soldati Senza Confini » Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:52 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
Soldati Senza Confini wrote:
If you did I wouldn't have to ask you to clarify it in the first place, boyo.

>> not reading a post lambasting you for not reading

Astounding.


I read it, but I didn't understanding among all that gourmet cheese wording.

Which is why I asked the question I asked, considering apportioning is: "the determination of the proportional number of members each US state sends to the House of Representatives, based on population figures.".

So essentially a senate partitioned by states depending on population figures, just like the House of Representatives. To do that, you would have to keep count of the population every few years, meaning a census. Same like the House of Representatives.

And if you are basically going to make it proportional to state populations, just like the house of representatives, why not just get rid of the senate and just keep the house of representatives with the rules you propose instead? Which is essentially what I was wondering. I mean, it's more efficient than to modify an old structure you despise anyways because it represents an entire landmass, not the people living in it, and unicameral legislatures are not that uncommon anyways.
Last edited by Soldati Senza Confini on Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Soldati senza confini: Better than an iPod in shuffle more with 20,000 songs.
Tekania wrote:Welcome to NSG, where informed opinions get to bump-heads with ignorant ideology under the pretense of an equal footing.

"When it’s a choice of putting food on the table, or thinking about your morals, it’s easier to say you’d think about your morals, but only if you’ve never faced that decision." - Anastasia Richardson

Current Goal: Flesh out nation factbook.

User avatar
Senkaku
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16493
Founded: Sep 01, 2012
Father Knows Best State

Postby Senkaku » Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:52 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
Senkaku wrote:Also ik I've been rather rude triple posting but I'd just like to say-

When people say this, what they're basically saying is "why should a majority of the American people (who, by and large, live in urban areas and on the coasts, but LA and NYC are easily villainized metonyms for places with lots of scary brown urbanites) get to dictate national policy?"

But it sounds better when you can cast democracy as some terrifying regime of imperial rule by distant coastal cities over the REAL American people living in the long-suffering heartland :roll:

"We r not a democracy"

we

r

R E P U B L I K

Tarsonis wrote:
Senkaku wrote:Also ik I've been rather rude triple posting but I'd just like to say-

When people say this, what they're basically saying is "why should a majority of the American people (who, by and large, live in urban areas and on the coasts, but LA and NYC are easily villainized metonyms for places with lots of scary brown urbanites) get to dictate national policy?"

But it sounds better when you can cast democracy as some terrifying regime of imperial rule by distant coastal cities over the REAL American people living in the long-suffering heartland :roll:


Yeah I don’t actually give a shit about racial demographics. Shove your race baiting up your ass

Care to identify what about this is race baiting lmfao, was it saying the word "brown"? Feel free to ignore it if even mentioning race is now "race baiting" but my point still stands regardless of it

Shrillland wrote:
Senkaku wrote:Also ik I've been rather rude triple posting but I'd just like to say-

When people say this, what they're basically saying is "why should a majority of the American people (who, by and large, live in urban areas and on the coasts, but LA and NYC are easily villainized metonyms for places with lots of scary brown urbanites) get to dictate national policy?"

But it sounds better when you can cast democracy as some terrifying regime of imperial rule by distant coastal cities over the REAL American people living in the long-suffering heartland :roll:


No, it's a legitimate question when the system is set up so only one set of interests and ideals is given total control.

It wouldn't be be given "total control" lmfao it would be being given proportional control
And race doesn't come into it..at least not in my view.

literally I say the word "brown" fucking ONCE and everyone fucking fixates on race suddenly rather than paying attention to my point jesus fucking christ on a rusty bronze pike
Instagay

Athrax wrote:
Gauthier wrote:How many times a month did Kennedy visit Dallas?


Only once. He got a mindblowing reception though

The Nuclear Fist wrote:Just try and find a seat without getting your bollocks stuck in a light socket.

Lunas Legion wrote:That's NS for you. It has 2 speeds; a rape train with no brakes or brakes with no train.

Diopolis wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:Sanders/Trump 2016

Mexico will pay for our universal healthcare!

The Empire of Pretantia wrote:
Dogmeat wrote:The strobe was a little much.

But then the beat dropped and it was just perfect.

User avatar
Tarsonis
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7856
Founded: Sep 20, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Tarsonis » Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:53 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
Shrillland wrote:No, it's a legitimate question when the system is set up so only one set of interests and ideals is given total control. And race doesn't come into it..at least not in my view.

Tell me, how has that interplay of interests and ideals worked out for us? Increasing polarization, crippled national government, inability to respond to serious national concerns with coherent policy, rampant corruption, pork for miles...

The founding of this country was dependent, explicitly stated by many of the Founding Fathers, on the idea that we all had more-or-less the same general goal for the nation; that we were one nation of many parts. The nation has quadrupled in size and become a breeding ground for several conflicting ideologies. That is no longer the case.


That was never the case
Proud NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005.
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Galatians 6:7 " Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

User avatar
Senkaku
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16493
Founded: Sep 01, 2012
Father Knows Best State

Postby Senkaku » Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:55 pm

Len Hyet wrote:
Senkaku wrote:Also ik I've been rather rude triple posting but I'd just like to say-

When people say this, what they're basically saying is "why should a majority of the American people (who, by and large, live in urban areas and on the coasts, but LA and NYC are easily villainized metonyms for places with lots of scary brown urbanites) get to dictate national policy?"

But it sounds better when you can cast democracy as some terrifying regime of imperial rule by distant coastal cities over the REAL American people living in the long-suffering heartland :roll:

Direct democracy sucks in every way shape and form.

Republicanism isn't great, but it's better.

Federalism is even better.

And oh what I wouldn't do for a Heinleinian Confederacy.

Which is why I'm not proposing ditching all aspects of indirect democracy lmao

If it's any reassurance to those of you who I'm sure are preparing to mischaracterize me as a proponent of mob rule ( :roll: ), I'd not be totally opposed to having senators be indirectly elected again, since it might make people actually give more of a fuck about state legislatures


furthermore portraying "republicanism" and "federalism" as somehow at odds with "democracy" remains idiotic
Last edited by Senkaku on Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Instagay

Athrax wrote:
Gauthier wrote:How many times a month did Kennedy visit Dallas?


Only once. He got a mindblowing reception though

The Nuclear Fist wrote:Just try and find a seat without getting your bollocks stuck in a light socket.

Lunas Legion wrote:That's NS for you. It has 2 speeds; a rape train with no brakes or brakes with no train.

Diopolis wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:Sanders/Trump 2016

Mexico will pay for our universal healthcare!

The Empire of Pretantia wrote:
Dogmeat wrote:The strobe was a little much.

But then the beat dropped and it was just perfect.

User avatar
Senkaku
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16493
Founded: Sep 01, 2012
Father Knows Best State

Postby Senkaku » Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:56 pm

Valrifell wrote:
Senkaku wrote:TRICAMERAL GANG


Why stop there?! We could go quadracameral or even PENTACAMERAL! Hexacameral is off limits, tho, verboten knowledge.

no no, tricameral will be sufficient
Instagay

Athrax wrote:
Gauthier wrote:How many times a month did Kennedy visit Dallas?


Only once. He got a mindblowing reception though

The Nuclear Fist wrote:Just try and find a seat without getting your bollocks stuck in a light socket.

Lunas Legion wrote:That's NS for you. It has 2 speeds; a rape train with no brakes or brakes with no train.

Diopolis wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:Sanders/Trump 2016

Mexico will pay for our universal healthcare!

The Empire of Pretantia wrote:
Dogmeat wrote:The strobe was a little much.

But then the beat dropped and it was just perfect.

User avatar
Len Hyet
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10701
Founded: Jun 25, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Len Hyet » Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:57 pm

Senkaku wrote:
Len Hyet wrote:Direct democracy sucks in every way shape and form.

Republicanism isn't great, but it's better.

Federalism is even better.

And oh what I wouldn't do for a Heinleinian Confederacy.

Which is why I'm not proposing ditching all aspects of indirect democracy lmao

If it's any reassurance to those of you who I'm sure are preparing to mischaracterize me as a proponent of mob rule ( :roll: ), I'd not be totally opposed to having senators be indirectly elected again, since it might make people actually give more of a fuck about state legislatures

17th Amendment worst Amendment.

Except the 12th which also kinda sucks. As does the 16th. The 18th was stupid too but it got repealed so that's okay.
=][= Founder, 1st NSG Irregulars. Our Militia is Well Regulated and Well Lubricated!

On a recently declared one-man campaign to elevate the discourse of you heathens.

User avatar
Conserative Morality
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 76428
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Conserative Morality » Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:58 pm

Soldati Senza Confini wrote:I read it, but I didn't understanding among all that gourmet cheese wording.

Which is why I asked the question I asked, considering apportioning is: "the determination of the proportional number of members each US state sends to the House of Representatives, based on population figures.".

So essentially a senate partitioned by states depending on population figures, just like the House of Representatives. To do that, you would have to keep count of the population every few years, meaning a census. Same like the House of Representatives.

And if you are basically going to make it proportional to state populations, just like the house of representatives, why not just get rid of the senate and just keep the house of representatives with the rules you propose instead? Which is essentially what I was wondering. I mean, it's more efficient than to modify an old structure you despise anyways because it represents an entire landmass, not the people living in it.

Because the Senate provides a more stable rotation of representatives rather than being replaced all at once.

Because the Senate has a number of procedural duties and responsibilities not shared by the House.

Because the Senate would represent larger areas as a whole proportional to their population rather than House representatives, who represent smaller areas piecemeal proportional to their population that are often gerrymandered to hell.

Because the overhaul of the US system would actually be much more difficult if you just 'removed' the Senate, regardless of your claim.

Take your pick.
On the hate train. Choo choo, bitches. Bi-Polar. Proud Crypto-Fascist and Turbo Progressive. Dirty Étatist. Lowly Humanities Major. NSG's Best Liberal.
Caesar and Imperator of RWDT
Got a blog up again. || An NS Writing Discussion

User avatar
Pasong Tirad
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8720
Founded: May 31, 2007
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Pasong Tirad » Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:59 pm

And hey to some election news Kyrsten Sinema's currently leading in Arizona by like 9.6k votes with around 99% of the ballots already counted
"If there is no friendship with them [the poor] and no sharing of the life of the poor, then there is no authentic commitment to liberation, because love exists only among equals."
- Gustavo Gutiérrez
Filipino||Catholic Liberationist||Leftist||He/Him||Bisexual||Trans Rights
Rojava||Free Taiwan||Assyria||Zapatistas
Puppet: Nangka

User avatar
Shrillland
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9448
Founded: Apr 12, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Shrillland » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:00 pm

Pasong Tirad wrote:And hey to some election news Kyrsten Sinema's currently leading in Arizona by like 9.6k votes with around 99% of the ballots already counted


I saw that...well, here's hoping.
Help a fellow NSGer(Eternal Lotharia) become a city councillor!
Factbook
Embassy
25 Days since the 2020 Megathread was 2016-jacked Maximum Period without 2016-jack: 25 Days
In 1963, Doctor Who taught us all we need to know about politics when a cave woman said, "Old men see no further than tomorrow's meat".

User avatar
Valrifell
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20786
Founded: Aug 18, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Valrifell » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:02 pm

For some bad news, Scott is suing several Florida counties alleging that Democrats were trying to rig the election.

Well apparently they did a piss-poor job at that, didn't they?
I like to imagine Sisyphus happy
I did some things

How not to debate: put snarky things implicitly calling out other posters in your sig

User avatar
Conserative Morality
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 76428
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Conserative Morality » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:03 pm

Valrifell wrote:For some bad news, Scott is suing several Florida counties alleging that Democrats were trying to rig the election.

Well apparently they did a piss-poor job at that, didn't they?

tbqf if we ever tried to rig an election that's about the outcome I would expect.
On the hate train. Choo choo, bitches. Bi-Polar. Proud Crypto-Fascist and Turbo Progressive. Dirty Étatist. Lowly Humanities Major. NSG's Best Liberal.
Caesar and Imperator of RWDT
Got a blog up again. || An NS Writing Discussion

User avatar
Tarsonis
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7856
Founded: Sep 20, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Tarsonis » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:04 pm

Senkaku wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:Yeah I don’t actually give a shit about racial demographics. Shove your race baiting up your ass

Care to identify what about this is race baiting lmfao, was it saying the word "brown"? Feel free to ignore it if even mentioning race is now "race baiting" but my point still stands regardless of it

Sure


When people say this, what they're basically saying is "why should a majority of the American people (who, by and large, live in urban areas and on the coasts, but LA and NYC are easily villainized metonyms for places with lots of scary brown urbanites) get to dictate national policy?"



And race doesn't come into it..at least not in my view.

literally I say the word "brown" fucking ONCE and everyone fucking fixates on race suddenly rather than paying attention to my point jesus fucking christ on a rusty bronze pike


Because your point was to slander us as racists and insinuate our real motive is we just don’t those uppity niggers to touch our white democracy. And then when we call you on it you deflect and deny “I didn’t do anything! You’re missing my point”. FFS my high school students have more integrity than you do, and that’s saying something.
Proud NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005.
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Galatians 6:7 " Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Aeritai, Andsed, Bluelight-R006, Dumb Ideologies, Ebirea, Gahngers, Geneviev, Heloin, Ifreann, Jolthig, Melondonia, Nakena, Napkizemlja, Petrolheadia, Tarsonis, The Alma Mater, The Black Forrest, The Brytish Isles, The Galactic Liberal Democracy, The Huskar Social Union, The Legion of Mankind, The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord, The Sutherland

Advertisement

Remove ads