Trump threatens to Nullify the 14th Amendment

[Des-Bal]

Well we want good Mericans in the country right?

Speaking of shitty ways to malign the opposition, dropping letters.

[Neutraligon]

I already replied to this comment, namely that the original intent of the person who authored the amendment is irrelevant.

You say that the original intent of the authors is irrelevant because court rulings intended to interpret its intent has already been made?

No it is irrelevant because court rulings are intended to interpret the law, not to interpret the original intent. The two are very different things.

[Washington Resistance Army]

President threatens to shit all over constitutional amendment he doesn't like, news at 11. Other stories at the hour: 4th amendment still dead, Democrats still trying to remove the 2nd amendment, collective disdain for 1st amendment grows.

Very few Democrats want to ban guns altogether, half of them only support the most minuscule forms of gun controls, and those who do think guns should be banned understand that can't happen without a Constitutional Convention and 3 or 4 states ratifying it. That's not quite the same thing as a wannabe dictator thinking he can override the Constitution with an executive order.

The post was more just to show that attacks on the bill of rights are nothing new, don't read too much into it.

[Valgora]

Prejudice and such doesn't mean that America is fascist.

There would be a lot that has to happen for America to become fascist.

What element of fascism does it not have?

America doesn't have an actual dictatorship.

I found this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitio ... of_Marxism

Using that, I'd say that America doesn't have fit into the characteristics well enough to be fascist. It's really just scratching the surface.

[Des-Bal]

The post was more just to show that attacks on the bill of rights are nothing new, don't read too much into it.

The 14th amendment is not part of the bill of rights.

[Vince Vaughn]

So I’ve decided that everyone who supports this should be mandated to legally go through the process of becoming a citizen
If they fail to make it through they’re deported

Why? We inherited our citizenship.

[Panslavicland]

Seems like a smart move to me. Not only does it keep the focus of debate going into the midterms on important issues like immigration I can definitely see this succeeding. There's plenty of records from the time of the passage of the 14th amendment supporting the view that it does not cover the children of illegal immigrants, only US citizens and lawful residents. By issuing an executive order that will inevitably be challenged by a liberal judge this should end up before the supreme court before too long, who should find in favour based on its current composition.

It is a smart move for the president to illegal try to amend the Constitution, a power that is not his, or to interpret the constitution, a power that is also not his?

He's not amending or interpreting the constitution, he's issuing an executive order which seems to be entirely compliant with the 14th amendment and I'm sure that when it comes to it the supreme court will agree.

[Vassenor]

It is a smart move for the president to illegal try to amend the Constitution, a power that is not his, or to interpret the constitution, a power that is also not his?

He's not amending or interpreting the constitution, he's issuing an executive order which seems to be entirely compliant with the 14th amendment and I'm sure that when it comes to it the supreme court will agree.

So how does declaring that "All persons born or naturalized in the United States" aren't citizens comply with "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."?

[Valgora]

It is a smart move for the president to illegal try to amend the Constitution, a power that is not his, or to interpret the constitution, a power that is also not his?

He's not amending or interpreting the constitution, he's issuing an executive order which seems to be entirely compliant with the 14th amendment and I'm sure that when it comes to it the supreme court will agree.

An executive order to end Birthright Citizenship is unconstitutional.
Attempting to legally interpret the constitution is also unconstitutional since Trump also lacks the power to do so.

[Valgora]

The post was more just to show that attacks on the bill of rights are nothing new, don't read too much into it.

The 14th amendment is not part of the bill of rights.

I personally think it should be considering how important it is. Especially the importance of the Due Process Clause.

[Page]

He's not amending or interpreting the constitution, he's issuing an executive order which seems to be entirely compliant with the 14th amendment and I'm sure that when it comes to it the supreme court will agree.

An executive order to end Birthright Citizenship is unconstitutional.
Attempting to legally interpret the constitution is also unconstitutional since Trump also lacks the power to do so.

Trump is counting on Kavanaugh to be a good boy.

[Communist Xomaniax]

Look obviously Trump isn't actually a fascist but conspiring to strip millions of Americans of their lawful citizenship is something fascists would do and have historically done.

[Ifreann]

The 14th amendment is not part of the bill of rights.

I personally think it should be considering how important it is. Especially the importance of the Due Process Clause.

Bill of Rights is just a term people use. It doesn't have any special legal status.

[Genivaria]

America is pretty damn far from being Fascist atm.

Are you a Muslim American, African American, child of an undocumented immigrant,
Guantanamo Bay inmate, refugee, Hispanic or Jewish American?

There is prejudice against ethnic minorities yes.
That's been true since the founding of the country, still not fascist.

[Genivaria]

Prejudice and such doesn't mean that America is fascist.

There would be a lot that has to happen for America to become fascist.

What element of fascism does it not have?

You have this backwards, you claimed it was fascist so you demonstrate how it is fascist.

[Vassenor]

I personally think it should be considering how important it is. Especially the importance of the Due Process Clause.

Bill of Rights is just a term people use. It doesn't have any special legal status.

Generally it only refers to the first ten amendments though.

[Rio Cana]

An executive order to end Birthright Citizenship is unconstitutional.
Attempting to legally interpret the constitution is also unconstitutional since Trump also lacks the power to do so.

Trump is counting on Kavanaugh to be a good boy.

So he is pulling a Morales (you know Pres. of Bolivia). He lost a public referendum to allow him to run for a fourth time has Pres.. So he went to the Bolivian supreme court to get his way.

[Ifreann]

What element of fascism does it not have?

You have this backwards, you claimed it was fascist so you demonstrate how it is fascist.

Whatever about playing burden of proof games on NSG, consider reading up on Eco's Ur-Fascism.

[Des-Bal]

Trump is counting on Kavanaugh to be a good boy.

Impeachment and murder are the only possible ways to impose consequences on a supreme court justice. The amount of rhetoric implying that Kavanaugh is somehow more beholden to Trump than any Justice is to the president that appointed them is just dissapointing.

[Mischland]

You say that the original intent of the authors is irrelevant because court rulings intended to interpret its intent has already been made?

No it is irrelevant because court rulings are intended to interpret the law, not to interpret the original intent. The two are very different things.

The supreme court interprets the constitution. To interpret something means to explain or understand the meaning of something. The meaning of any written work is defined by what the author gave it. If we deliberately deviate from this meaning, we're not interpreting, we're augmenting, which is unconstitutional for the supreme court to do on its own.

[Mischland]

The 14th amendment is not part of the bill of rights.

I personally think it should be considering how important it is. Especially the importance of the Due Process Clause.

Bill of Rights is just the first set that the founders wrote.

[Frievolk]

Look obviously Trump isn't actually a fascist but conspiring to strip millions of Americans of their lawful citizenship is something fascists would do and have historically done.

Even if he himself wasn't a fascist (and I personally think he probably is), he's surrounded with fascists, a great deal of his supporters are fascists, and he's pulled a lot of fascist rhetoric this last 2 years. Are we waiting for him to make marshmallows over the flames of the Reichstag before we recognize he's a fascist?

[Genivaria]

Look obviously Trump isn't actually a fascist but conspiring to strip millions of Americans of their lawful citizenship is something fascists would do and have historically done.

Even if he himself wasn't a fascist (and I personally think he probably is), he's surrounded with fascists, a great deal of his supporters are fascists, and he's pulled a lot of fascist rhetoric this last 2 years.

The original claim that I responded to was that "America is quite fascist" which is just not true.

[Page]

Look obviously Trump isn't actually a fascist but conspiring to strip millions of Americans of their lawful citizenship is something fascists would do and have historically done.

Unlike most others who oppose Trump, I don't actually consider him to be a fascist or a racist, he's not even a conservative nor someone who cares about America, in my view he is nothing more than a conman and sociopath who has adopted the ideology that gets him the most admiration and power. He could have just as easily been a socialist if he thought he could do better with pandering to socialists. I don't think he actually believes in any of his ideals at all. He is an empty vessel who only craves more. More power, more wealth, more love from the people.

However, he is currently pandering to fascists and pushing fascist policies, so whether he believes in it or not doesn't matter - he's guilty of it.

[Blessed Doodlentroemon]

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

Assuming wikipedia isn't deceiving me, this seems pretty hard to interpret differently.