Trump threatens to Nullify the 14th Amendment

[Genivaria]

I’ve never taken it
I feel like I wouldnt

Well I wouldn't advise living in America at present, quite fascist.

America is pretty damn far from being Fascist atm.

[Neutraligon]

So I’ve decided that everyone who supports this should be mandated to legally go through the process of becoming a citizen
If they fail to make it through they’re deported

Isn't it funny how people keep proposing batshit ideas assuming it will never touch them?

I did that at Ellis Island. I am glad to say I passed the test.

I’ve never taken it
I feel like I wouldnt

Seems that they think it would touch them if they supported Trump's action.

[Des-Bal]

It's not a serious suggestion. It's a snarky way of pointing out that how much one hates immigrants is usually inversely proportional to how well they would do on the test.

It's a shitty way of implying the stupidity of those who hold contrary positions.

[Nyoronet]

a

[Alvecia]

So I’ve decided that everyone who supports this should be mandated to legally go through the process of becoming a citizen
If they fail to make it through they’re deported

Shit, I'm not all that confident I'd pass a citzenship test here (UK).

[Mischland]

Ok, once more: No, I said that if Mexico doesn't want to be accused of being complicit in an invading force, they will uphold their hypothetical, not-currently-existing duty to prosecute their own citizens when they commit crimes in our country.

Like I said, threadjack. Start a new thread if you want to talk about this hypothetical.
Anyway, back to the actual topic. We seem to have already determined who falls under the jurisdiction of the US in various Supreme Court rulings.

I wasn't even the one to bring it up, my reply just happened to be the one to get a lot of replies.

Those rulings are not final. They were not true to the intent of the 14 amendment:
During the original congressional debate over the amendment Senator Jacob M. Howard of Michigan—the author of the Citizenship Clause[46]—described the clause as having the same content, despite different wording, as the earlier Civil Rights Act of 1866, namely, that it excludes Native Americans who maintain their tribal ties and "persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers."[47] According to historian Glenn W. LaFantasie of Western Kentucky University, "A good number of his fellow senators supported his view of the citizenship clause."[46] Others also agreed that the children of ambassadors and foreign ministers were to be excluded

[Neutraligon]

It's honestly not that difficult. Just took it. 100%. Only guessed right on one question - when you have to register for selective service, I didn't realize that 26 was the limit, but the rest of the answers made even less sense

I think there was a mistype in the one I took at Ellis Island, which my brother and mother also noted. Or rather there was an ambiguous question. We had fun with that though I don't remember what the question was.

[Neutraligon]

Like I said, threadjack. Start a new thread if you want to talk about this hypothetical.
Anyway, back to the actual topic. We seem to have already determined who falls under the jurisdiction of the US in various Supreme Court rulings.

I wasn't even the one to bring it up, my reply just happened to be the one to get a lot of replies.

Those rulings are not final. They were not true to the intent of the 14 amendment:
During the original congressional debate over the amendment Senator Jacob M. Howard of Michigan—the author of the Citizenship Clause[46]—described the clause as having the same content, despite different wording, as the earlier Civil Rights Act of 1866, namely, that it excludes Native Americans who maintain their tribal ties and "persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers."[47] According to historian Glenn W. LaFantasie of Western Kentucky University, "A good number of his fellow senators supported his view of the citizenship clause."[46] Others also agreed that the children of ambassadors and foreign ministers were to be excluded

I already replied to this comment, namely that the original intent of the person who authored the amendment is irrelevant.

[Panslavicland]

https://abc7chicago.com/politics/14th-amendment-trump-plans-to-order-end-of-birthright-citizenship/4580659/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... e880bf8896

Well, it's finally here, people. The crown jewel of impossible campaign promises has arrived. The Donald, from what I can tell, wants to end the 14th amendment, but only through an executive order. We all know an amendment trying to nullify it wouldn't pass, so this is his only option. However, although I may not be a constitutional lawyer, even I know he can't do that. However, it seems like what he's trying to do is just exclude illegal immigrants from 14th amendment protection, and that seems to be pretty damn unconstitutional to me.

Thoughts, NSG?

Seems like a smart move to me. Not only does it keep the focus of debate going into the midterms on important issues like immigration I can definitely see this succeeding. There's plenty of records from the time of the passage of the 14th amendment supporting the view that it does not cover the children of illegal immigrants, only US citizens and lawful residents. By issuing an executive order that will inevitably be challenged by a liberal judge this should end up before the supreme court before too long, who should find in favour based on its current composition.

[Ifreann]

So I’ve decided that everyone who supports this should be mandated to legally go through the process of becoming a citizen
If they fail to make it through they’re deported

Shit, I'm not all that confident I'd pass a citzenship test here (UK).

After all the years I've spent correcting internet Americans who don't know the first thing about their own country I would be more confident of passing the US citizenship test than the Irish one.

[Mischland]

It's not a serious suggestion. It's a snarky way of pointing out that how much one hates immigrants is usually inversely proportional to how well they would do on the test.

It's a shitty way of implying the stupidity of those who hold contrary positions.

Is this common on these forums?

[Saranidia]

Well I wouldn't advise living in America at present, quite fascist.

America is pretty damn far from being Fascist atm.

Are you a Muslim American, African American, child of an undocumented immigrant,
Guantanamo Bay inmate, refugee, Hispanic or Jewish American?

[Neutraligon]

https://abc7chicago.com/politics/14th-amendment-trump-plans-to-order-end-of-birthright-citizenship/4580659/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... e880bf8896

Well, it's finally here, people. The crown jewel of impossible campaign promises has arrived. The Donald, from what I can tell, wants to end the 14th amendment, but only through an executive order. We all know an amendment trying to nullify it wouldn't pass, so this is his only option. However, although I may not be a constitutional lawyer, even I know he can't do that. However, it seems like what he's trying to do is just exclude illegal immigrants from 14th amendment protection, and that seems to be pretty damn unconstitutional to me.

Thoughts, NSG?

Seems like a smart move to me. Not only does it keep the focus of debate going into the midterms on important issues like immigration I can definitely see this succeeding. There's plenty of records from the time of the passage of the 14th amendment supporting the view that it does not cover the children of illegal immigrants, only US citizens and lawful residents. By issuing an executive order that will inevitably be challenged by a liberal judge this should end up before the supreme court before too long, who should find in favour based on its current composition.

It is a smart move for the president to illegal try to amend the Constitution, a power that is not his, or to interpret the constitution, a power that is also not his?

[Shofercia]

It's honestly not that difficult. Just took it. 100%. Only guessed right on one question - when you have to register for selective service, I didn't realize that 26 was the limit, but the rest of the answers made even less sense

I think there was a mistype in the one I took at Ellis Island, which my brother and mother also noted. Or rather there was an ambiguous question. We had fun with that though I don't remember what the question was.

Some of the answers are wrong, but I figured I knew what they wanted me to pick:

Who does the Senator from your state represent?

A. All of the people from your state
B. All of the people who voted for the Senator
C. All of the people of the Senator's Political Party
D. All those who funded the Senator's Campaign

I thought it was D, but I knew the right answer as A

[Saranidia]

I think there was a mistype in the one I took at Ellis Island, which my brother and mother also noted. Or rather there was an ambiguous question. We had fun with that though I don't remember what the question was.

Some of the answers are wrong, but I figured I knew what they wanted me to pick:

Who does the Senator from your state represent?

A. All of the people from your state
B. All of the people who voted for the Senator
C. All of the people of the Senator's Political Party
D. All those who funded the Senator's Campaign

I thought it was D, but I knew the right answer as A

probably social control.

[Valgora]

America is pretty damn far from being Fascist atm.

Are you a Muslim American, African American, child of an undocumented immigrant,
Guantanamo Bay inmate, refugee, Hispanic or Jewish American?

Prejudice and such doesn't mean that America is fascist.

There would be a lot that has to happen for America to become fascist.

[Washington Resistance Army]

President threatens to shit all over constitutional amendment he doesn't like, news at 11. Other stories at the hour: 4th amendment still dead, Democrats still trying to remove the 2nd amendment, collective disdain for 1st amendment grows.

[Saranidia]

Are you a Muslim American, African American, child of an undocumented immigrant,
Guantanamo Bay inmate, refugee, Hispanic or Jewish American?

Prejudice and such doesn't mean that America is fascist.

There would be a lot that has to happen for America to become fascist.

What element of fascism does it not have?

[Page]

If only people were as concerned about legal loopholes when it comes to corporations zero income tax and the American military using white phosphorous as a chemical weapon.

Just because a legal loophole doesn’t concern many people, it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t ignore it. Loopholes and poor laws is how corruption usually takes control of a government

That's quite a generalization you're making too. You realize that these kids end up going to public schools, right? They tend to meet Americans and adapt to the culture. One gets culture from how they're raised, not from their ethnic background.

Yes, that’s true, however when a kid returns home their parents remind or influence them on who they are. I consider myself different from my generation, having closer ties with earlier generations, and I consider that it was my father who raised me that way.

To assume that, a parent doesn’t influence or enforce the type of culture the kid is a part of is a silly way of thinking.

You're right. If we don't take care of corruption now, a criminal tax evader might eventually become President, violate the Emoluments Clause by accepting bribes from Saudis in exchange for weapons deals, and eventually try to issue executive orders that directly violate the Constitution he's sworn to uphold. And the corruption will spread far. Our government will sell arms to a foreign power committing genocide and our own Attorney General will order migrant children to be kidnapped, held in worse conditions than convicted murderers, drugged with anti-psychotics to make them docile, and left to die of respiratory infections they contract in overcrowded cages.

I sure hope none of that stuff happens.

And I never assumed parents don't influence culture. What's so bad about a kid liking both American and Mexican food, speaking English and Spanish, celebrating Dia de Muertos and Halloween?

[Petrasylvania]

Isn't it funny how people keep proposing batshit ideas assuming it will never touch them?

I’ve never taken it
I feel like I wouldnt

Seems that they think it would touch them if they supported Trump's action.

I was talking about the people screaming about abolishing birthright citizenship.

[Internationalist Bastard]

So I’ve decided that everyone who supports this should be mandated to legally go through the process of becoming a citizen
If they fail to make it through they’re deported

That's a silly and illogical thing that comes up anytime someone talks about immigration. I don't see why our way of doing things is better than the way that most countries do it.

Well we want good Mericans in the country right?

[Mischland]

I wasn't even the one to bring it up, my reply just happened to be the one to get a lot of replies.

Those rulings are not final. They were not true to the intent of the 14 amendment:
During the original congressional debate over the amendment Senator Jacob M. Howard of Michigan—the author of the Citizenship Clause[46]—described the clause as having the same content, despite different wording, as the earlier Civil Rights Act of 1866, namely, that it excludes Native Americans who maintain their tribal ties and "persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers."[47] According to historian Glenn W. LaFantasie of Western Kentucky University, "A good number of his fellow senators supported his view of the citizenship clause."[46] Others also agreed that the children of ambassadors and foreign ministers were to be excluded

I already replied to this comment, namely that the original intent of the person who authored the amendment is irrelevant.

You say that the original intent of the authors of an amendment is irrelevant because court rulings intended to interpret its intent have already been made?

[Internationalist Bastard]

Prejudice and such doesn't mean that America is fascist.

There would be a lot that has to happen for America to become fascist.

What element of fascism does it not have?

Our uniforms arent fly as hell

[Page]

President threatens to shit all over constitutional amendment he doesn't like, news at 11. Other stories at the hour: 4th amendment still dead, Democrats still trying to remove the 2nd amendment, collective disdain for 1st amendment grows.

Very few Democrats want to ban guns altogether, half of them only support the most minuscule forms of gun controls, and those who do think guns should be banned understand that can't happen without a Constitutional Convention and 3 or 4 states ratifying it. That's not quite the same thing as a wannabe dictator thinking he can override the Constitution with an executive order.

[Saranidia]

What element of fascism does it not have?

Our uniforms arent fly as hell

true lol
reminds me of an argument I was having. People were talking about the mafia "crushing someone's head with a gulf club because their boss ordered them to do it" and I compared them to the US Army(not that I hate veterans or anything i'm just describing the institution) then this guy made a comment "we do better than gulf clubs a--hole" and mentioned the machine guns they used.

I was like exactly.