Tabula rasa, or science denial of the left

[Darussalam]

You really aren't helping your case by classifying notoriously repressive and discriminatory governments as "good".

Also, a bit hard to believe your claim that you "don't care" which race is doing it. You have been defending white supremacist governments and "research" that favored white people above most other categories.

Not really. IQ research favors East Asians and Jews over Whites.

Maybe instead of instinctively inferring bias from the outcome, you can start by considering whether the outcome might actually be correct or not. Bell Curve is just a trivial foundation - their research have been replicated countless times, unlike certain other fields in social sciences.

[Liriena]

You mean you somehow missed all the sources I provided disputing your two main sources?

Also, yeah, it does make you a racist to peddle the idea that arcane racial categories that have nothing to do with our contemporary understanding of genetics can be argued to possess biologically predetermined behavior and intelligence. Specially when the "science" you use to peddle that idea is infamous for being poorly made at best.

If a white man drives 100 miles in 2 hours and a black drives the same 100 miles in 3 hours, the white man arrived first because the timekeeper is racist.

You sure are very enthusiastic about spewing dumb nonsense to defend the OP's "scientific" racism.

[Darussalam]

If a white man drives 100 miles in 2 hours and a black drives the same 100 miles in 3 hours, the white man arrived first because the timekeeper is racist.

What the fuck does that even mean and what does it have to do with the topic at hand?

Holomodoria is using an allegorical example to point out the problem of regarding situations where whites come out as advantaged as obviously the cause of racism. Is that quite clear for you, or should I explain it more so that you can understand it better?

[Liriena]

You mean you somehow missed all the sources I provided disputing your two main sources?

Also, yeah, it does make you a racist to peddle the idea that arcane racial categories that have nothing to do with our contemporary understanding of genetics can be argued to possess biologically predetermined behavior and intelligence. Specially when the "science" you use to peddle that idea is infamous for being poorly made at best.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10. ... 6.11821659

I'm going to ask, because you might not have read this. This is one of the supposed refutations given to me. Do you think this in any way constitutes a valid refutation?

Yeah, I love ir. :3

[Bombadil]

What the fuck does that even mean and what does it have to do with the topic at hand?

Holomodoria is using an allegorical example to point out the problem of regarding situations where whites come out as advantaged as obviously the cause of racism. Is that quite clear for you, or should I explain it more so that you can understand it better?

Well it’s a dumb analogy because given the same car then there’s something wrong, either the car is different or the roads are different because given equal ability to drive a straight line at 50 km/h is nothing to do with intelligence.

The mistake you’re making is that you think we’re saying the timekeeper is wrong as opposed to the disparities in vehicle or road.

[Darussalam]

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10. ... 6.11821659

I'm going to ask, because you might not have read this. This is one of the supposed refutations given to me. Do you think this in any way constitutes a valid refutation?

Yeah, I love ir. :3

"The essay concludes that Pioneer-funded scientists engage in an illicit dialectical shift when they claim to be interested only in scientific, rather than political, questions. The essay calls for attention to the social context of arguers and arguing rather than abstract analytical categories."

....

Well, should I elaborate on my social context? I'm a full-blooded Asian of Indonesian descent, living in the country in question. As a marginalized person of color, I would like to defy white privilege of shutting down debates of inherited traits and behaviors as racism. I feel like this debate has been hijacked by whites who are overflown with guilt and absolutely reject empirical evidences advanced by non-whites. It is necessary for whites to reflect themselves for this, and correct their position in the system.

[Liriena]

You really aren't helping your case by classifying notoriously repressive and discriminatory governments as "good".

Also, a bit hard to believe your claim that you "don't care" which race is doing it. You have been defending white supremacist governments and "research" that favored white people above most other categories.

Not really. IQ research favors East Asians and Jews over Whites.

Maybe instead of instinctively inferring bias from the outcome, you can start by considering whether the outcome might actually be correct or not. Bell Curve is just a trivial foundation - their research have been replicated countless times, unlike certain other fields in social sciences.

The outcome is not correct. Also, if the bell curve is a "trivial" foundation, what is the non-trivial one? The blog post from your opening?

Also, don't play coy with the "East Asians and Jews" shit. That does not change the known white supremacist intent, context and nature of how your "science" was produced and used.

[Bombadil]

Holomodoria is using an allegorical example to point out the problem of regarding situations where whites come out as advantaged as obviously the cause of racism. Is that quite clear for you, or should I explain it more so that you can understand it better?

To be fair the black racer may have been delayed for driving while black...

Especially if it was a car perceived as above his station..

[Liriena]

Yeah, I love ir. :3

"The essay concludes that Pioneer-funded scientists engage in an illicit dialectical shift when they claim to be interested only in scientific, rather than political, questions. The essay calls for attention to the social context of arguers and arguing rather than abstract analytical categories."

....

Well, should I elaborate on my social context? I'm a full-blooded Asian of Indonesian descent, living in the country in question. As a marginalized person of color, I would like to defy white privilege of shutting down debates of inherited traits and behaviors as racism. I feel like this debate has been hijacked by whites who are overflown with guilt and absolutely reject empirical evidences advanced by non-whites. It is necessary for whites to reflect themselves for this, and correct their position in the system.

Nice try.

[Caracasus]

"The essay concludes that Pioneer-funded scientists engage in an illicit dialectical shift when they claim to be interested only in scientific, rather than political, questions. The essay calls for attention to the social context of arguers and arguing rather than abstract analytical categories."

....

Well, should I elaborate on my social context? I'm a full-blooded Asian of Indonesian descent, living in the country in question. As a marginalized person of color, I would like to defy white privilege of shutting down debates of inherited traits and behaviors as racism. I feel like this debate has been hijacked by whites who are overflown with guilt and absolutely reject empirical evidences advanced by non-whites. It is necessary for whites to reflect themselves for this, and correct their position in the system.

Nice try.

r/asablackman basically.

[Blackledge]

To be more precise, many seem to be convinced that evolution stops at the neck. From the neck upwards, humans stay the same, endowed with equal dignity by the Creator. This is soft-core creationism in the same way that Intelligent Design is also soft-core creationism. It is simply impossible, according to the mainstream leftist trend, that visible traits imply certain behavioral tendencies. Women, for example, have completely the exact same brain, the exact same inborn preferences and traits, as men do. The median black person is as smart and advantaged at birth as the median white person. Everyone is born with equal ability to succeed. There couldn't be possibly such thing as population clusters with varying average cognitive ability. Women want to be engineers and computer scientists as much as men do.

I don't think "the left" is denying there are some small differences between racial groups or physical differences between men and women. It's about recognizing everyone should be treated equally under law.

[Darussalam]

The outcome is not correct. Also, if the bell curve is a "trivial" foundation, what is the non-trivial one? The blog post from your opening?

A whole load of psychological and economic literature regarding IQ. Like these:

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/0c14/d ... 6b3e61.pdf
http://www1.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/r ... atters.pdf
https://benthamopen.com/contents/pdf/TO ... YJ-3-9.pdf
emilkirkegaard.dk/en/wp-content/uploads/Is-the-Flynn-effect-on-g-A-meta-analysis.pdf
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 961300113X
http://www.iratde.org/issues/1-2009/tde ... _et_al.pdf

Also, don't play coy with the "East Asians and Jews" shit. That does not change the known white supremacist intent, context and nature of how your "science" was produced and used.

It does if you insinuate that from the assertion that whites have better outcome in these research. Well, East Asians and Jews have it even better. So either you want to make your claim unfalsifiable by retreating to the gaps, or maybe you should drop it altogether.

"The essay concludes that Pioneer-funded scientists engage in an illicit dialectical shift when they claim to be interested only in scientific, rather than political, questions. The essay calls for attention to the social context of arguers and arguing rather than abstract analytical categories."

....

Well, should I elaborate on my social context? I'm a full-blooded Asian of Indonesian descent, living in the country in question. As a marginalized person of color, I would like to defy white privilege of shutting down debates of inherited traits and behaviors as racism. I feel like this debate has been hijacked by whites who are overflown with guilt and absolutely reject empirical evidences advanced by non-whites. It is necessary for whites to reflect themselves for this, and correct their position in the system.

Nice try.

Nice try of what? Your source want us to "call attention" on my social context instead. Or is that no longer relevant?

[Darussalam]

To be more precise, many seem to be convinced that evolution stops at the neck. From the neck upwards, humans stay the same, endowed with equal dignity by the Creator. This is soft-core creationism in the same way that Intelligent Design is also soft-core creationism. It is simply impossible, according to the mainstream leftist trend, that visible traits imply certain behavioral tendencies. Women, for example, have completely the exact same brain, the exact same inborn preferences and traits, as men do. The median black person is as smart and advantaged at birth as the median white person. Everyone is born with equal ability to succeed. There couldn't be possibly such thing as population clusters with varying average cognitive ability. Women want to be engineers and computer scientists as much as men do.

I don't think "the left" is denying there are some small differences between racial groups or physical differences between men and women. It's about recognizing everyone should be treated equally under law.

Then you haven't read the thread in its glorious entirety.

[British Tackeettlaus]

Not really. IQ research favors East Asians and Jews over Whites.

Funny how IQ testing on Jewish immigrants in the 1920s found them to be below average. Or how IQs in Sub-Saharan Africa have been rising significantly since the 1980s.

Its almost as if intelligence and IQ is determined more by your environment, education and upbringing than your genetics.

[Blackledge]

I don't think "the left" is denying there are some small differences between racial groups or physical differences between men and women. It's about recognizing everyone should be treated equally under law.

Then you haven't read the thread in its glorious entirety.

Are you talking about a cited source someone provided or just their internet anecdotes? Because no one here encompasses and represents "the left."

[Internationalist Bastard]

Am I super sleep deprived or does this make no sense

[Caracasus]

Am I super sleep deprived or does this make no sense

Both I am guessing.

[Blackledge]

Not really. IQ research favors East Asians and Jews over Whites.

Funny how IQ testing on Jewish immigrants in the 1920s found them to be below average. Or how IQs in Sub-Saharan Africa have been rising significantly since the 1980s.

Could you cite those for my own edification?

[Bombadil]

The outcome is not correct. Also, if the bell curve is a "trivial" foundation, what is the non-trivial one? The blog post from your opening?

Also, don't play coy with the "East Asians and Jews" shit. That does not change the known white supremacist intent, context and nature of how your "science" was produced and used.

"Yeah Darussalam you damned brown person. You're not supposed to agree with non-approved white people. Get back in your cage! Hrrrrr grrrrr!"

Within Indonesia there are still perceptions of who is ‘whiter’ and who is more negroid, that this translates to a theory of racial hierarchy is not odd.

By whiter I mean perceived as superior over rural native.

So it’s as assumptive to assume non-whites can’t be racist, just look at caste in India.. stop viewing the world through the prism of Euro-Asian-African lens of colour, class, race or etc.,

Why not categorise people on their relative length of finger, or curve of spine.. these can have generalised local genes by wider global spread.. why do certain genetic outcomes act as the categorisation by which we define the whole world?

[Internationalist Bastard]

Am I super sleep deprived or does this make no sense

Both I am guessing.

As long as you agree with the unicorn in the corner I’ll trust you

[Darussalam]

Nice try.

r/asablackman basically.

Then you understand how retarded that essay's "recommendation" is.

[Bombadil]

Especially if it was a car perceived as above his station..

But it would never be that the black racer didn't try to win.

Well if historically the society he lived in created all manner of rules and norms to disqualify him then I can’t blame the lack of trying.

Anyway, this gets tedious for the same tired manufactured points.

[Blackledge]

Are you talking about a cited source someone provided or just their internet anecdotes? Because no one here encompasses and represents "the left."

Just the ones screaming RACIST at the scary Indonesian.

He'd probably go farther directly identifying groups or individuals instead of making a sweeping generalization of "the left" is doing X. It's as ignorant as the constant "the right" nonsense here in NSG.

[Kowani]

This thread is insanely stupid and depressing. I leave now.

[British Tackeettlaus]

Funny how IQ testing on Jewish immigrants in the 1920s found them to be below average. Or how IQs in Sub-Saharan Africa have been rising significantly since the 1980s.

Could you cite those for my own edification?

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1995/09/the-great-sorting/376451/

One of the main findings of American intelligence testing in Brigham's day was that immigrants were less intelligent than native-born Americans, with the most recent crop of immigrants being the least intelligent ever. The highest-scoring group today is Jews, but in 1923, when most American Jews were recent immigrants, Brigham reported that "our figures ... would rather tend to disprove the popular belief that the Jew is highly intelligent... "]

Also read about the Flynn Effect
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect