NATION

PASSWORD

Tabula rasa, or science denial of the left

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)
User avatar
Darussalam
Minister
 
Posts: 2469
Founded: May 15, 2012
Compulsory Consumerist State

Tabula rasa, or science denial of the left

Postby Darussalam » Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:22 pm

The right gets a lot of flak for its supposed tendency for science denialism. Rejecting climate science, endorsing creationism, so on and so on. As a rightist, I think that to a certain extent, climate science deniers and creationists deserved it. Creationism, especially young-earth creationism, deserves to be belittled and mocked. Evolution is so blindingly obvious that nothing in biology makes sense without it. It is so intuitive that even creationists act in understanding that traits and behaviors are inherited and selected.

In fact, many creationists act like they actually believe in evolution, while many supposedly secular leftists don't.

To be more precise, many seem to be convinced that evolution stops at the neck. From the neck upwards, humans stay the same, endowed with equal dignity by the Creator. This is soft-core creationism in the same way that Intelligent Design is also soft-core creationism. It is simply impossible, according to the mainstream leftist trend, that visible traits imply certain behavioral tendencies. Women, for example, have completely the exact same brain, the exact same inborn preferences and traits, as men do. The median black person is as smart and advantaged at birth as the median white person. Everyone is born with equal ability to succeed. There couldn't be possibly such thing as population clusters with varying average cognitive ability. Women want to be engineers and computer scientists as much as men do.

This doctrine of blank slate egalitarianism is pure, undiluted religion - worse, these claims are falsifiable and have actually been falsified. Augustine of Hippo was more rational than modern leftists. Now, the question of policy prescriptions is different from the question of empirical fact. It's entirely possible to advocate egalitarian policies while keeping inherited traits and behaviors in mind. The proposed policies no doubt will differ from the blank-slatists', but that's the point - when you figure out that x doesn't help anyone you changed it to y or to z instead of doubling down.

But my observation is that hereditarian leftists have always been regarded as crypto-rightists, or worse, crypto-fascists, by the figures of the mainstream left. You can be an atheist and a rightist, you can be a gay and a rightist, you can be a godless social darwinist and a rightist, but leftism seems to go beyond egalitarian redistributionism and is instead defined through certain key dogma that contradict reality. Reject them, and you're the part of the Intellectual Dark Web, or worse: Alt-Rightism.

tl;dr: We have a serious problem of science denialism from the left in the form of blank-slate social sciences. What do you think about it, and what should we do?

link for elaborations and sources
Last edited by Darussalam on Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Eternal Phantasmagoria
Nation Maintenance
A Lovecraftian hybrid of totalitarian panopticon and crypto-anarchy with Arabian Nights aesthetics.

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60892
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:57 pm

Excuse me, OP, but are you trying to "subtly" peddle "race realism" or some shit? Because unless you are gonna specify a bit more, your bloggy as fuck opening post reeks of dog-whistling.
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60892
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:00 pm

Also, what the fuck is that source? Who's the author? Why should we take them seriously? What the fuck you doing with my time?
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Philjia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10322
Founded: Sep 15, 2014
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Philjia » Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:01 pm

The ideas that all people are created equal and that we have natural rights are both bunk and are what social policy and laws are for.
Last edited by Philjia on Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mclusky wrote:How can fifteen people be wrong?

⚧ Gender and sex aren't the same thing. ⚧
Progressive reformist co-operativist democratic market socialist. Pro LGBT rights and gay marriage, pro gay adoption, pro EU, atheist, pro free speech and expression, pro legalisation of prostitution and soft drugs, and pro choice. Anti authoritarian, anti bigotry, anti radfem. White cishet male.

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60892
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:05 pm

The fuck... OP, are you seriously citing a Marxist economist's hot take on biological differences within the human species to make some dumb ass thinly veiled "race realism" argument?
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Darussalam
Minister
 
Posts: 2469
Founded: May 15, 2012
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Darussalam » Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:06 pm

Liriena wrote:Excuse me, OP, but are you trying to "subtly" peddle "race realism" or some shit? Because unless you are gonna specify a bit more, your bloggy as fuck opening post reeks of dog-whistling.

I'm not dog-whistling, why would you dog-whistle science? Also I don't explicitly elaborate on racism because the topic covers more than races: genetic variation between the sexes, socioeconomic classes, etc. are also subject to denialism as well.
The Eternal Phantasmagoria
Nation Maintenance
A Lovecraftian hybrid of totalitarian panopticon and crypto-anarchy with Arabian Nights aesthetics.

User avatar
Genivaria
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 66027
Founded: Mar 29, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Genivaria » Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:08 pm

So other than the ramblings and strawmans I'm not actually seeing a straight claim with a source.
Liberal Social Democrat. Vague leftist, growing more cynical as each day passes.
The DNC is better than the GOP like Manslaughter is better than Murder: Seems like a lesser crime, but the victim can't tell the difference.

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60892
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:09 pm

Darussalam wrote:I'm not dog-whistling, why would you dog-whistle science?

I don't know. I'm not the one citing some random economist's blog posts as the basis for this sort of rhetoric:
To be more precise, many seem to be convinced that evolution stops at the neck. From the neck upwards, humans stay the same, endowed with equal dignity by the Creator. This is soft-core creationism in the same way that Intelligent Design is also soft-core creationism. It is simply impossible, according to the mainstream leftist trend, that visible traits imply certain behavioral tendencies. Women, for example, have completely the exact same brain, the exact same inborn preferences and traits, as men do. The median black person is as smart and advantaged at birth as the median white person. Everyone is born with equal ability to succeed. There couldn't be possibly such thing as population clusters with varying average cognitive ability. Women want to be engineers and computer scientists as much as men do.


So you've done your critique of alleged leftist "creationism". Now I await your actual stance on your "scientific" observations.
Last edited by Liriena on Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Bombadil
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13947
Founded: Oct 13, 2011
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Bombadil » Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:12 pm

Maybe some people think that but I think the actual position is that regardless of differences it shouldn't be used to single out or discriminate against a perceived set of people. There should be equality of opportunity. In addition, any average is not a statement on the individual. Finally in all the examples you cite there are far greater similarities than difference, perhaps we should accept the fact we're all basically the same and should be treated as such.
Eldest, that's what I am...Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn...he knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless — before the Dark Lord came from Outside..

十年

User avatar
Philjia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10322
Founded: Sep 15, 2014
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Philjia » Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:14 pm

Darussalam wrote:
Liriena wrote:Excuse me, OP, but are you trying to "subtly" peddle "race realism" or some shit? Because unless you are gonna specify a bit more, your bloggy as fuck opening post reeks of dog-whistling.

I'm not dog-whistling, why would you dog-whistle science? Also I don't explicitly elaborate on racism because the topic covers more than races: genetic variation between the sexes, socioeconomic classes, etc. are also subject to denialism as well.

Variation between race and class is so minute as to be infinitesimal. There's a bit more variation between the sexes, but all things considered it's not that much. The environment you grow up in is the factor most likely to determine how you turn out, plus the effects of any random or inherited severe physical or mental abnormalities.
Mclusky wrote:How can fifteen people be wrong?

⚧ Gender and sex aren't the same thing. ⚧
Progressive reformist co-operativist democratic market socialist. Pro LGBT rights and gay marriage, pro gay adoption, pro EU, atheist, pro free speech and expression, pro legalisation of prostitution and soft drugs, and pro choice. Anti authoritarian, anti bigotry, anti radfem. White cishet male.

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60892
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:15 pm

Bombadil wrote:Maybe some people think that but I think the actual position is that regardless of differences it shouldn't be used to single out or discriminate against a perceived set of people. There should be equality of opportunity. In addition, any average is not a statement on the individual. Finally in all the examples you cite there are far greater similarities than difference, perhaps we should accept the fact we're all basically the same and should be treated as such.

Also, a lot of the alleged differences are observed through the lenses of socially and historically constructed categories that leave a lot to be desired in terms of scientific standards.
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Genivaria
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 66027
Founded: Mar 29, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Genivaria » Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:22 pm

Liriena wrote:
Bombadil wrote:Maybe some people think that but I think the actual position is that regardless of differences it shouldn't be used to single out or discriminate against a perceived set of people. There should be equality of opportunity. In addition, any average is not a statement on the individual. Finally in all the examples you cite there are far greater similarities than difference, perhaps we should accept the fact we're all basically the same and should be treated as such.

Also, a lot of the alleged differences are observed through the lenses of socially and historically constructed categories that leave a lot to be desired in terms of scientific standards.

"Why did Europeans do so much better then Africans? Because they're racially superior!"
"Or because Europe won the geography lottery and has both tons of natural resources for industry as well as a climate to encourage urbanization?"
Sub-Saharan Africa not so much.
Liberal Social Democrat. Vague leftist, growing more cynical as each day passes.
The DNC is better than the GOP like Manslaughter is better than Murder: Seems like a lesser crime, but the victim can't tell the difference.

User avatar
The Liberated Territories
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11831
Founded: Dec 03, 2013
Capitalizt

Postby The Liberated Territories » Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:22 pm

You are entirely correct Dar. The fact is, the races aren't equal. To believe they are engages in a form of Rousseauvian "blank-state creationism."
"Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig."
—Robert Heinlein

a libertarian, which means i want poor babies to die or smth

User avatar
Darussalam
Minister
 
Posts: 2469
Founded: May 15, 2012
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Darussalam » Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:26 pm

Philjia wrote:Variation between race and class is so minute as to be infinitesimal. There's a bit more variation between the sexes, but all things considered it's not that much. The environment you grow up in is the factor most likely to determine how you turn out, plus the effects of any random or inherited severe physical or mental abnormalities.

The variation between race and classes are as substantial as variation of wealth held by average members of the subgroup. Murray and Herrnstein have extensively elaborated on that. It explains income differences between various ethnic groups in the United States. It also explained differences in development in various countries of the world.

Sex differences are more pronounced in affluent, gender-egalitarian countries than poorer, more patriarchal countries. This is not the work of power structures, otherwise you'd expect the reverse trend instead.
Liriena wrote:
Bombadil wrote:Maybe some people think that but I think the actual position is that regardless of differences it shouldn't be used to single out or discriminate against a perceived set of people. There should be equality of opportunity. In addition, any average is not a statement on the individual. Finally in all the examples you cite there are far greater similarities than difference, perhaps we should accept the fact we're all basically the same and should be treated as such.

Also, a lot of the alleged differences are observed through the lenses of socially and historically constructed categories that leave a lot to be desired in terms of scientific standards.

So you don't believe traits and behaviors could be innate or inherited?
The Eternal Phantasmagoria
Nation Maintenance
A Lovecraftian hybrid of totalitarian panopticon and crypto-anarchy with Arabian Nights aesthetics.

User avatar
East Gondwana
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 445
Founded: Jun 24, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby East Gondwana » Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:26 pm

Funny how OP is basically just peddling the usual racist pseudoscience, while conveniently failing to provide any scientific evidence to back up the claims.

And here I was thinking this would be a much needed critique on the left's unwarranted suspicion and even rejection of GMOs.
PRO: Queer rights and liberation, social democracy, libertarian socialism, trade unions, Uluru Statement From The Heart, democracy, human rights, feminism, climate action and environmentalism, BLM/SOSBA

ANTI: capitalism, fascism, authoritarianism, bolshevism, Australian immigration policy, cops at pride, corporate 'activism', racism, fossil fuels industry, state violence

User avatar
Genivaria
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 66027
Founded: Mar 29, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Genivaria » Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:27 pm

East Gondwana wrote:Funny how OP is basically just peddling the usual racist pseudoscience, while conveniently failing to provide any scientific evidence to back up the claims.

And here I was thinking this would be a much needed critique on the left's unwarranted suspicion and even rejection of GMOs.

That (and speaking as a Leftist here) is one of those things that the Left really needs to shut up about, along with the hysteria over Nuclear Energy.
Nuclear Power is safe.
Liberal Social Democrat. Vague leftist, growing more cynical as each day passes.
The DNC is better than the GOP like Manslaughter is better than Murder: Seems like a lesser crime, but the victim can't tell the difference.

User avatar
Darussalam
Minister
 
Posts: 2469
Founded: May 15, 2012
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Darussalam » Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:31 pm

East Gondwana wrote:Funny how OP is basically just peddling the usual racist pseudoscience, while conveniently failing to provide any scientific evidence to back up the claims.

And here I was thinking this would be a much needed critique on the left's unwarranted suspicion and even rejection of GMOs.

The OP is meant as a general critique - the criticism is wide-ranged so I omitted quoting literature (of which there are many abound) that supported my claims until the debate is focused on certain aspects. I also don't provide sources because I naively thought NSGers are quite well-read in scientific literature to at least have knowledge of them. In that respect I am quite disappointed.
The Eternal Phantasmagoria
Nation Maintenance
A Lovecraftian hybrid of totalitarian panopticon and crypto-anarchy with Arabian Nights aesthetics.

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60892
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:31 pm

Darussalam wrote:
Liriena wrote:Also, a lot of the alleged differences are observed through the lenses of socially and historically constructed categories that leave a lot to be desired in terms of scientific standards.

So you don't believe traits and behaviors could be innate or inherited?

Not in the terms you clearly wish to express it. Your "scientific racism" isn't very subtle, specially after you unironically cited the bell curve.

The idea that there are significant traits and behaviors that are part of some sort of "racial biological essence", which you are blatantly pushing, is nothing more than an ad hoc attempt to cram the square peg of arcane racial categories into the round hole of contemporary genetics.
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60892
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:33 pm

Liriena wrote:
Darussalam wrote:So you don't believe traits and behaviors could be innate or inherited?

Not in the terms you clearly wish to express it. Your "scientific racism" isn't very subtle, specially after you unironically cited the bell curve.

The idea that there are significant traits and behaviors that are part of some sort of "racial biological essence", which you are blatantly pushing, is nothing more than an ad hoc attempt to cram the square peg of arcane racial categories into the round hole of contemporary genetics.

Also, friendly reminder to everyone else in the thread that the bell curve is a pile of bullshit, and here's why: http://www.mdcbowen.org/p2/rm/debunk/dBell.htm
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60892
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:34 pm

The Liberated Territories wrote:You are entirely correct Dar. The fact is, the races aren't equal. To believe they are engages in a form of Rousseauvian "blank-state creationism."

Does that mean we can do mayocide now?
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
The Liberated Territories
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11831
Founded: Dec 03, 2013
Capitalizt

Postby The Liberated Territories » Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:35 pm

Liriena wrote:
The Liberated Territories wrote:You are entirely correct Dar. The fact is, the races aren't equal. To believe they are engages in a form of Rousseauvian "blank-state creationism."

Does that mean we can do mayocide now?


yes :^)
"Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig."
—Robert Heinlein

a libertarian, which means i want poor babies to die or smth

User avatar
Auzkhia
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27795
Founded: Mar 11, 2010
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Auzkhia » Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:37 pm

The OP reads like some giant incoherent disaster, is it a rant about race and gender?


Genivaria wrote:
East Gondwana wrote:Funny how OP is basically just peddling the usual racist pseudoscience, while conveniently failing to provide any scientific evidence to back up the claims.

And here I was thinking this would be a much needed critique on the left's unwarranted suspicion and even rejection of GMOs.

That (and speaking as a Leftist here) is one of those things that the Left really needs to shut up about, along with the hysteria over Nuclear Energy.
Nuclear Power is safe.

I'm also a leftist and there are some anti-vaxxers on the left too, mostly you'll find them under Green banners, I'm all for protecting the environment, but nuclear energy isn't as bad some make it to me, especially if people work fusion, and every food is GMO, since selective breeding is genetic modification, and literally everything is a chemical, stop saying chemicals like it's some scary word.

User avatar
Darussalam
Minister
 
Posts: 2469
Founded: May 15, 2012
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Darussalam » Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:37 pm

Liriena wrote:
Darussalam wrote:So you don't believe traits and behaviors could be innate or inherited?

Not in the terms you clearly wish to express it. Your "scientific racism" isn't very subtle, specially after you unironically cited the bell curve.

The idea that there are significant traits and behaviors that are part of some sort of "racial biological essence", which you are blatantly pushing, is nothing more than an ad hoc attempt to cram the square peg of arcane racial categories into the round hole of contemporary genetics.

I'm not pushing essentialism, I'm pushing statistics.

Human populations cluster and evolve independently, so it's not a surprise they would evolve a variety of different traits. For all intents and purposes, races are a good proxy for this. It is observable that there is disparity in average cognitive ability among different races. Gaussian distribution ("bell curve") means that slight difference in mean could translate to extreme disparity in the tails. This is not because of "racism", this is because of differences in ability. etc., etc.
The Eternal Phantasmagoria
Nation Maintenance
A Lovecraftian hybrid of totalitarian panopticon and crypto-anarchy with Arabian Nights aesthetics.

User avatar
Darussalam
Minister
 
Posts: 2469
Founded: May 15, 2012
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Darussalam » Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:42 pm

Liriena wrote:
Liriena wrote:Not in the terms you clearly wish to express it. Your "scientific racism" isn't very subtle, specially after you unironically cited the bell curve.

The idea that there are significant traits and behaviors that are part of some sort of "racial biological essence", which you are blatantly pushing, is nothing more than an ad hoc attempt to cram the square peg of arcane racial categories into the round hole of contemporary genetics.

Also, friendly reminder to everyone else in the thread that the bell curve is a pile of bullshit, and here's why: http://www.mdcbowen.org/p2/rm/debunk/dBell.htm

The first link gives us an article about how your average American is stupid, which is to no one's surprise. No one is arguing in the Bell Curve that your average American, or your average white American for that matter, is exceptionally intelligent. This does not refute the point in any way.

The rest are speculating on the authors' covert ill intent of racist libertarianism. I see nothing substantial to be addressed.
The Eternal Phantasmagoria
Nation Maintenance
A Lovecraftian hybrid of totalitarian panopticon and crypto-anarchy with Arabian Nights aesthetics.

User avatar
East Gondwana
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 445
Founded: Jun 24, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby East Gondwana » Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:47 pm

Darussalam wrote:
East Gondwana wrote:Funny how OP is basically just peddling the usual racist pseudoscience, while conveniently failing to provide any scientific evidence to back up the claims.

And here I was thinking this would be a much needed critique on the left's unwarranted suspicion and even rejection of GMOs.

The OP is meant as a general critique - the criticism is wide-ranged so I omitted quoting literature (of which there are many abound) that supported my claims until the debate is focused on certain aspects. I also don't provide sources because I naively thought NSGers are quite well-read in scientific literature to at least have knowledge of them. In that respect I am quite disappointed.

Sorry to disappoint you that I'm not spending my free time researching scientific evidence that supports racism. You're right, it was naive of you to assume that everyone would be able to just know about the sources you used for your claims.

And you made the claims here, you have the burden of proof.
PRO: Queer rights and liberation, social democracy, libertarian socialism, trade unions, Uluru Statement From The Heart, democracy, human rights, feminism, climate action and environmentalism, BLM/SOSBA

ANTI: capitalism, fascism, authoritarianism, bolshevism, Australian immigration policy, cops at pride, corporate 'activism', racism, fossil fuels industry, state violence

Next

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Altion, Badassistanian, Gangnamtopia, Heloin, New Carthagea, Silver Commonwealth, Ther Armirearia, Unrulyland, Vistulange

Advertisement

Remove ads