NationStates

Shrillland wrote:

Greed and Death wrote:The social Liberal Party (PSL) won. So I assume that means the conservatives lost right ?

No, PSL is the conservative party led by Bolsonaro. They were actual social liberals until Bolsonaro hijacked the party and made it right-wing nationalist so saith Wiki.

He also made them start winning. So as I always say Power is Power.

Shrillland wrote:

Greed and Death wrote:The social Liberal Party (PSL) won. So I assume that means the conservatives lost right ?

No, PSL is the conservative party led by Bolsonaro. They were actual social liberals until Bolsonaro hijacked the party and made it right-wing nationalist so saith Wiki.

sigh

the world does not revolve around america

in fact, in the vast majority of the planet outside of america, canada and the UK, 'liberal' does not mean liberal in social views. not just is this visible in australia of all places, but also brazil.

PSL was never progressive-liberal in the western sense. it was, and continues to be, a libertarian party.

Germanic Templars wrote:

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
No proper Fascist would permit, endorse, or tolerate the destruction of the Amazon. Fascists have always been Environmentalists, sorry to break that to you.

Shhhhhh. Torrocca cannot handle the truth.

Sure I can.

The truth's pretty different from dishonest debate, though. :^)

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:

Torrocca wrote:
>History is written by the victors

Aaaaand there's about the point where I came to the natural conclusion that I've no reason to take anything you say at face value, either, considering how mind-bogglingly stupid and bullshit that statement alone is.

Just as well. I already put you on my foes list anyway, seeing as you can't hold a mature argument with anyone who even slightly dissents from your opinion.

Sure I can; Fascist apologia's a wee bit more than just, "slight dissent," for your information.

You don't know everything; stop acting like it.

I never said I do. Seems you fancy yourself one to know everything about me, though.

San Lumen wrote:

Trumptonium1 wrote:
liberals find it hard to stomach that fascists were the first to endorse environmentalism and animal rights, since liberals find breathing the same air as fascists scandalous, so anything they did must be done in the opposite manner. unfortunately that brings them to realities they don't want to face, like supporting industry over the environment.

Bolsonaro said he wants to end all environmental regulations and could care less about the Amazon

Bol, represents the Federal government. There is still the State governments in which these jungles are located.

San Lumen wrote:

Trumptonium1 wrote:
liberals find it hard to stomach that fascists were the first to endorse environmentalism and animal rights, since liberals find breathing the same air as fascists scandalous, so anything they did must be done in the opposite manner. unfortunately that brings them to realities they don't want to face, like supporting industry over the environment.

Bolsonaro said he wants to end all environmental regulations and could care less about the Amazon

he doesn't want to end environmental regulations, he wants to end pollution regulations, and he said he is apathetic towards the amazon. in any case, as the poster above said, this is actually the job of the state governments, not the federal government. these sorts of farming permits are not granted by the federal government. did you ever see someone applying for a homestead pasture to the white house?

Torrocca wrote:

Germanic Templars wrote:
Shhhhhh. Torrocca cannot handle the truth.

Sure I can.

The truth's pretty different from dishonest debate, though. :^)

So, something that you have been spewing? Dishonesty? It seems like it to me there, pot.

Germanic Templars wrote:

Torrocca wrote:
Sure I can.

The truth's pretty different from dishonest debate, though. :^)

So, something that you have been spewing? Dishonesty? It seems like it to me there, pot.

Considering I've only really used Bolsonaro's own positions to come to the logical conclusion that he's indeed a Fascist fuckwit, I'd hardly call that dishonesty. :^)

Trumptonium1 wrote:

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
No proper Fascist would permit, endorse, or tolerate the destruction of the Amazon. Fascists have always been Environmentalists, sorry to break that to you.

liberals find it hard to stomach that fascists were the first to endorse environmentalism and animal rights, since liberals find breathing the same air as fascists scandalous, so anything they did must be done in the opposite manner. unfortunately that brings them to realities they don't want to face, like supporting industry over the environment.

You know what? I actually hold a lot of political views that one might consider 'liberal', and even I can't fucking stand the average liberal. I miss the days when politics were toxic on every spectrum.

Germanic Templars wrote:

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
No proper Fascist would permit, endorse, or tolerate the destruction of the Amazon. Fascists have always been Environmentalists, sorry to break that to you.

Shhhhhh. Torrocca cannot handle the truth.

As for destroying the Amazon, that has been fucked for decades well before the "fascist" got in control. Because let's face it, the party in control gave little shits about the country in the first place.

Brazil has pretty much always been in the gutter. I mean, who the Hell in their right mind chooses FIFA over a space program?

Torrocca wrote:

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
No proper Fascist would permit, endorse, or tolerate the destruction of the Amazon. Fascists have always been Environmentalists, sorry to break that to you.

Ooh baby, it's everyone's favorite fallacy! A, "No True Scotsman," in the wild, and an actual, proper one at that!

It's not a fallacy when it's literally fucking part of the belief system.

Jesus Christ...

Wonder if Bol. foreign policy toward his neighboring nations will be tough or stay has it is. If he wants Brazilian trade to get to the Pacific via an overland route he cannot be too tough with his neighbors.

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:

Torrocca wrote:
Ooh baby, it's everyone's favorite fallacy! A, "No True Scotsman," in the wild, and an actual, proper one at that!

It's not a fallacy when it's literally fucking part of the belief system.

Jesus Christ...

Not all Fascists are pro-environmentalists, therefore you're wrong.

Shrillland wrote:

San Lumen wrote:With Bolsonaro’s victory it is time to say farewell to democracy in Brazil and even more sadly the Amazon rainforest. This will be a day remembered for generations to come. That’s if there even is a world for our children to inherit.

AH, well. Democracy's died in Latin America before, it always bounces back. Besides, the Social Liberals are second behind the PT in the Chamber and tied for 10th place in the Senate, so he'll still need a hefty coalition to get things done.

PT wasn’t much better either. It was basically the choice between a left dictatorship or a right dictatorship.

Rio Cana wrote:Wonder if Bol. foreign policy toward his neighboring nations will be tough or stay has it is. If he wants Brazilian trade to get to the Pacific via an overland route he cannot be too tough with his neighbors.

So an invasion of Peru is out of the question?

Vassenor wrote:And looks like the Military Police is already raiding colleges to remove "ideological content" and anti-fascist materials. (Link in Portuguese)

[unexpected love for the state of Argie politics intensifies]

Trumptonium1 wrote:Haddad is LITERALLY Stalin. did you even see his policies?

Don't threaten me with a good time

San Lumen wrote:

Freezic Vast wrote:

Forgive me for caring about the planet and not just myself

Besides, he still has Congress to contend with. Here are the totals of the pro-Bolsonaro and pro-Haddad blocs based on who gave support during the second campaign:

Chamber:
Pro-Bolsonaro: 104(PSL, PSD, PTB, PSC,)
Pro-Haddad: 129(PT, PDT, PSB, PSOL, PPL, REDE, DC)
Unpledged: 280

Senate:
Pro-Bolsonaro: 15
Pro-Haddad: 22
Unpledged: 44

So it won't be as simply as you think, Lumen. And there's no guarantee that the military would just stand by and go with his dreams of restoring the junta.

Torrocca wrote:

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
It's not a fallacy when it's literally fucking part of the belief system.

Jesus Christ...

Not all Fascists are pro-environmentalists, therefore you're wrong.

Got any examples? Because I've never met one that wasn't. Fascists are all about spiritual reverence for their nation and homeland, so I find it really hard to believe they'd endorse letting corporations and industry just trash it to make a quick buck.

Trumptonium1 wrote:

Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... s-to-fight

he's >>literally hitler<< because he wants to jail corrupt leftist politicians and violent leftist mobs?

aight, sounds legit then. someone better be on the lookout for any import requests of gases at this point.

Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States wrote:Well, last time it landed us with the most destructive war in human history. Name me a radical right-wing populist, nationalist government that does not have the blood of dissidents and minorities on its hands.

singapore, south korea, interwar poland, interwar czechoslovakia, interwar finland, interwar yugoslavia (for the most part), salazar portugal (colonies excluded), apartheid south africa (for the most part)

South Korea. I’m gonna need proof of all this right wing populism.
Also, wasn’t Salazar’s Portugal radical left wing?

And no, Apartheid South Africa has a crap ton of blood on its hands.

Rio Cana wrote:Wonder if Bol. foreign policy toward his neighboring nations will be tough or stay has it is. If he wants Brazilian trade to get to the Pacific via an overland route he cannot be too tough with his neighbors.

Yeah, he's gonna need to have a good relationship with us argies or the Bolivians for that, and things aren't looking very good for Macrismo over here.

Trumptonium1 wrote:

Shrillland wrote:
No, PSL is the conservative party led by Bolsonaro. They were actual social liberals until Bolsonaro hijacked the party and made it right-wing nationalist so saith Wiki.

sigh

the world does not revolve around america

in fact, in the vast majority of the planet outside of america, canada and the UK, 'liberal' does not mean liberal in social views. not just is this visible in australia of all places, but also brazil.

PSL was never progressive-liberal in the western sense. it was, and continues to be, a libertarian party.

When did I say that it did? I know what social liberal means in the world, and that's why I said they were. They're not exactly libertarian at the moment considering Bolsonaro's views, they're more like an illiberal party right now.

Kowani wrote:

Trumptonium1 wrote:
he's >>literally hitler<< because he wants to jail corrupt leftist politicians and violent leftist mobs?

aight, sounds legit then. someone better be on the lookout for any import requests of gases at this point.



singapore, south korea, interwar poland, interwar czechoslovakia, interwar finland, interwar yugoslavia (for the most part), salazar portugal (colonies excluded), apartheid south africa (for the most part)

South Korea. I’m gonna need proof of all this right wing populism.
Also, wasn’t Salazar’s Portugal radical left wing?

And no, Apartheid South Africa has a crap ton of blood on its hands.

Salazar was definitely not a Leftist. He was heavily inspired by Fascism, even though he thought Fascism was "barbaric".

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:

Kowani wrote:South Korea. I’m gonna need proof of all this right wing populism.
Also, wasn’t Salazar’s Portugal radical left wing?

And no, Apartheid South Africa has a crap ton of blood on its hands.

Salazar was definitely not a Leftist. He was heavily inspired by Fascism, even though he thought Fascism was "barbaric".

Thank you.

Kowani wrote:

Trumptonium1 wrote:
he's >>literally hitler<< because he wants to jail corrupt leftist politicians and violent leftist mobs?

aight, sounds legit then. someone better be on the lookout for any import requests of gases at this point.



singapore, south korea, interwar poland, interwar czechoslovakia, interwar finland, interwar yugoslavia (for the most part), salazar portugal (colonies excluded), apartheid south africa (for the most part)

South Korea. I’m gonna need proof of all this right wing populism.
Also, wasn’t Salazar’s Portugal radical left wing?

And no, Apartheid South Africa has a crap ton of blood on its hands.

Estado Novo was pretty much a right wing coalition ruling under Salazar's wings.

We are opposed to all forms of Internationalism, Communism, Socialism, Syndicalism and everything that may divide or minimise, or break up the family. We are against class warfare, irreligion and disloyalty to one's country; against serfdom, a materialistic conception of life, and might over right.

His policies towards the left and minorities aside, How will he handle the Brazilian Economy is very important, because if he doesn't do a good job it won't be just the brazilians who will be affected,but South America as a whole.


Edit: Changed it a bit for clarification.

Shrillland wrote:

San Lumen wrote:Forgive me for caring about the planet and not just myself

Besides, he still has Congress to contend with. Here are the totals of the pro-Bolsonaro and pro-Haddad blocs based on who gave support during the second campaign:

Chamber:
Pro-Bolsonaro: 104(PSL, PSD, PTB, PSC,)
Pro-Haddad: 129(PT, PDT, PSB, PSOL, PPL, REDE, DC)
Unpledged: 280

Senate:
Pro-Bolsonaro: 15
Pro-Haddad: 22
Unpledged: 44

So it won't be as simply as you think, Lumen. And there's no guarantee that the military would just stand by and go with his dreams of restoring the junta.

If he has as much support from the military as he seems to, he can, and he's said that he does want to restore the junta.

Trumptonium1 wrote:it was, and continues to be, a libertarian party.

Oh hell yeah dude keep helping

You are doing god's work undermining the very idea of right-wing "libertarianism" by identifying it with a party led by militaristic authoritarians who want to slaughter those who dissent with them and whose followers attack women and minorities