Brazil Second Presidential N Paliament Elections 2018 Genral

[Kubra]

Sure, PT is corrupt, but I mean in a lot of places the choice is between the corrupt who've been outed and the corrupt whose outing is merely pending.

The potential for corruption is still more appealing than proven corruption to the average voter.

Sure, but in the end all that's left is infinite recurrence, as has mostly been the case in latin america.
Corruption is a structural problem, rather than a political one. Sometimes it's baked into the structure (the philippines and its constitution is a very good example of this), and sometimes it's social; it's just how they folks do business in the first place, and in the context of politics what's everyday is a big no-no. It's not something that can be voted or coup'd away, else the americas would have been rid of it long ago.

[Aellex]

As I type this, Ocelot brings us the latest, and evidently well-nigh-nonexistent is NOT no chance in hell.

Old news. That has been happening since before he was elected, he wasn't the one who ordered it. The reason for this is simple, the universities were essentially making propaganda for Haddad and Brazilian law states that some 48 hours before an election, all kinds of propaganda are strictly forbidden. The places which were raided by the Police were probably known Antifa/Black Bloc groups as well, if the pictures I have seen do not betray my eyes. Of course, I don't endorse these actions either, but it's far from being a fascist takeover. At most, they're trying to stop people from getting hurt if conflicting parties get into a fight.

EDIT: I see that has already been covered. Thank you, Therm.

Against your words... are his words. A whole Wikiquote page devoted to him and his words, complete with attributions and dates. Nine from before 2000, eight between 2000 and 2009, and... I didn't count to the end, but let's say at least thrice nine this decade alone. The majority of those quotes express his hatred of all those people you've enumerated, and clearly his hatred has only grown more fervent (and his prominence became more elevated) with time.

Most of these are so taken out of context it's unbelivable.

For instance, when he said "These red outlaws will be banished from our homeland. It will be a cleanup the likes of which has never been seen in Brazilian history.", he didn't mean he was going to hunt down and kill every single socialist of left-winger in Brazil. He was specifically reffering to the Worker's Party - which in case you don't know, has conducted the greatest corruption scheme in known world history, has been ideologically destroying our education system for decades, killing our history, erasing our past, erasing our heroes, brainwashing the people. He claimed he was going to kick them out of the government, he never claimed he would go out and start murdering commies like it's the 60's all over again.

Now, he does say a lot of shit, again, he's a bit hot-headed when it comes to talking to people. That does not translate to his political actions And I wouldn't be surprised if, in his campaign, he made controversial statements on purpose. Because if he didn't - who is Jair Bolsonaro? No one would know him, because the other runners had much longer histories of trying to run for presidency.

Furthermore, a lot of what he says are things that make sense in their historical context (some about the military dictatorship), others are harsh truths, and others are a product of his formation as a military officer, both in respect to his views towards socialism, the military dictatorship (you know, the guerillas that operated in this country were far from guardians of liberty - of course it does not justify what the regime did, but everything on its historical context.) He's not going to have the same opinions as the common citizen in many aspects related to security because of this. Political correctness doesn't matter in a battlefield.

Of course you can elect someone who isn't fucking batshit -- pardon my French -- rather than elect him and hope the other branches of government check him before he does his worst, instead of seeing him as the key to their continued hold on power and thus ingratiating themselves to him through essentially being a rubber-stamp for the policies he wants, as has happened under my Duterte and the United States' Trump, or outright terrorizing all peaceful opposition into impotence, as seems likely with your Bolsonaro.

If I'm peevishly snarking now, it's because your electoral logic is ass backwards, but then again "ass backwards" seems to be the rule this longest year -- instead of electing someone sane to do the things he wants and you want, you elect someone insane, and expect him to act sane.

And what was the other option, do tell?
Haddad?
Because that was the only guy running up against him in the second round.

A complete incompetent, puppet to his party, which is the party that stole the most from this country and its people in our entire history. A party that sought to control media and softly but surely control each and every single aspect of the country entirely within their hands. A party which became so corrupted even the other left-wingers hate them, especially the moderate ones. They thought they were the owners of this country. The population had to either prove them right, lower their heads and allow it to continue doing what it has been doing for over a decade, or prove it wrong.

Which is why handing over the reins to someone who has vowed to industrialize the Amazon, instead to someone who promises to give its environmental and indigenous affairs agencies the money and muscle to enforce the laws already in place, is genius.

"Industrializing the Amazon" was also done by the previous government and it's something they boasted about all the time, how they were bringing prosperity and technology to the amazon.

And to be honest? They weren't too wrong on that regard.

Industrializing the amazon does not mean cutting down the forest and building industries in it. the Amazon is sparsely populated - most of it is jungle (or graze land, which is the greatest problem - farmers going around and just taking down jungle to plant soy or raise cattle, which of course doesn't last long before the soil dies down on them due to the lack of nutrients since the forest is what maintains its own soil, and once the soil dies down they go and take down more forest to get new land, rinse and repeat. That's our greatest problem, not factories.), but there are pockets of population. There are small riverside communities, there are cities - most small, but there are some large ones. Manaus, the capital of the state of Amazonas, is pretty large. There we have the Zona Franca de Manaus - an industrial area by the city, which creates a lot of jobs for people there. The population in the north has some of the highest poverty and unemployement rates. By creating industries around these important cities - not all over the jungle - these people will get more jobs, the economy of that place will improve, people's lives will improve.

The Amazon won't be destroyed under Bolsonaro... It is already being destroyed and has been for several decades. And what has the government done to stop it? Nothing. What would Haddad do to stop it? Nothing. Bolsonaro doesn't have a specific project for preservation either, but he has projects for enforcement, retaking of national sovereignity over strategic locations, and bringing economic alternatives to the region other than cutting down jungle to plant soybeans and raise cattle. That's more than any other president has ever done. Other leaders signed ambiental protection laws left and right... but with no action, with no enforcement, these laws are meaningless, nothing but ink on a sheet of paper.

Furthermore, that is part of a plan to de-centralize industry in the country. As it stands now, almost all industries are in the southeast and south, creating enormous economic disparity between regions. the North and Northeast are the most severely affected. Another plan of his is to bring Israeli technology to the Sertão of the norhteast - a barren, dry wasteland where many people don't even have access to water or food - in order to allow these people to plant vegetables, to feed themselves and their families, to sell to people. If you think most Brazilians voted for him just because they didn't want the other guy in power - that was a factor indeed, and a big one - but he does have genuinely great proposals, which in my opinion, weigh more than whatever bullshit he spouts.

I somehow doubt troops of inflamed gays would attack a morose Bolsonaro supporter had the second round turned against him, but let's continue.

Oh, you have no idea.
Inflamed gays... if only. We have several hard left wing groups, brutal criminal organizations that are essentially marxist in nature and have nation-wide reach, and our population routinely kills each other over soccer matches, yeah that's right, due to rooting for different clubs, let alone an election as polarizing as this.

I do have a lot of fears concerning Bolsonaro. For one, I am extremely concerned about a possible privatization of strategic resources, among other issues. As far as persecution is concerned, I have little doubt that he won't persecute anyone, but I do fear for the safety of some groups not because of government persecution but because of persecution from other members of the population itself. But overall, I think it's worth taking the chance. If I turn out to be wrong I'll be the first to admit it, but overall it's better to take the chance and get a chance at changing for the better, than going with the "safe" option that was going to take us on the same old, familiar path, which was very clearly not going to end well.

Very interesting post and quite enlightening about the situation in Brazil.

[Nouveau Yathrib]

As I type this, Ocelot brings us the latest, and evidently well-nigh-nonexistent is NOT no chance in hell.

Old news. That has been happening since before he was elected, he wasn't the one who ordered it. The reason for this is simple, the universities were essentially making propaganda for Haddad and Brazilian law states that some 48 hours before an election, all kinds of propaganda are strictly forbidden. The places which were raided by the Police were probably known Antifa/Black Bloc groups as well, if the pictures I have seen do not betray my eyes. Of course, I don't endorse these actions either, but it's far from being a fascist takeover. At most, they're trying to stop people from getting hurt if conflicting parties get into a fight.

EDIT: I see that has already been covered. Thank you, Therm.

Against your words... are his words. A whole Wikiquote page devoted to him and his words, complete with attributions and dates. Nine from before 2000, eight between 2000 and 2009, and... I didn't count to the end, but let's say at least thrice nine this decade alone. The majority of those quotes express his hatred of all those people you've enumerated, and clearly his hatred has only grown more fervent (and his prominence became more elevated) with time.

Most of these are so taken out of context it's unbelivable.

For instance, when he said "These red outlaws will be banished from our homeland. It will be a cleanup the likes of which has never been seen in Brazilian history.", he didn't mean he was going to hunt down and kill every single socialist of left-winger in Brazil. He was specifically reffering to the Worker's Party - which in case you don't know, has conducted the greatest corruption scheme in known world history, has been ideologically destroying our education system for decades, killing our history, erasing our past, erasing our heroes, brainwashing the people. He claimed he was going to kick them out of the government, he never claimed he would go out and start murdering commies like it's the 60's all over again.

Now, he does say a lot of shit, again, he's a bit hot-headed when it comes to talking to people. That does not translate to his political actions And I wouldn't be surprised if, in his campaign, he made controversial statements on purpose. Because if he didn't - who is Jair Bolsonaro? No one would know him, because the other runners had much longer histories of trying to run for presidency.

Furthermore, a lot of what he says are things that make sense in their historical context (some about the military dictatorship), others are harsh truths, and others are a product of his formation as a military officer, both in respect to his views towards socialism, the military dictatorship (you know, the guerillas that operated in this country were far from guardians of liberty - of course it does not justify what the regime did, but everything on its historical context.) He's not going to have the same opinions as the common citizen in many aspects related to security because of this. Political correctness doesn't matter in a battlefield.

Of course you can elect someone who isn't fucking batshit -- pardon my French -- rather than elect him and hope the other branches of government check him before he does his worst, instead of seeing him as the key to their continued hold on power and thus ingratiating themselves to him through essentially being a rubber-stamp for the policies he wants, as has happened under my Duterte and the United States' Trump, or outright terrorizing all peaceful opposition into impotence, as seems likely with your Bolsonaro.

If I'm peevishly snarking now, it's because your electoral logic is ass backwards, but then again "ass backwards" seems to be the rule this longest year -- instead of electing someone sane to do the things he wants and you want, you elect someone insane, and expect him to act sane.

And what was the other option, do tell?
Haddad?
Because that was the only guy running up against him in the second round.

A complete incompetent, puppet to his party, which is the party that stole the most from this country and its people in our entire history. A party that sought to control media and softly but surely control each and every single aspect of the country entirely within their hands. A party which became so corrupted even the other left-wingers hate them, especially the moderate ones. They thought they were the owners of this country. The population had to either prove them right, lower their heads and allow it to continue doing what it has been doing for over a decade, or prove it wrong.

Which is why handing over the reins to someone who has vowed to industrialize the Amazon, instead to someone who promises to give its environmental and indigenous affairs agencies the money and muscle to enforce the laws already in place, is genius.

"Industrializing the Amazon" was also done by the previous government and it's something they boasted about all the time, how they were bringing prosperity and technology to the amazon.

And to be honest? They weren't too wrong on that regard.

Industrializing the amazon does not mean cutting down the forest and building industries in it. the Amazon is sparsely populated - most of it is jungle (or graze land, which is the greatest problem - farmers going around and just taking down jungle to plant soy or raise cattle, which of course doesn't last long before the soil dies down on them due to the lack of nutrients since the forest is what maintains its own soil, and once the soil dies down they go and take down more forest to get new land, rinse and repeat. That's our greatest problem, not factories.), but there are pockets of population. There are small riverside communities, there are cities - most small, but there are some large ones. Manaus, the capital of the state of Amazonas, is pretty large. There we have the Zona Franca de Manaus - an industrial area by the city, which creates a lot of jobs for people there. The population in the north has some of the highest poverty and unemployement rates. By creating industries around these important cities - not all over the jungle - these people will get more jobs, the economy of that place will improve, people's lives will improve.

The Amazon won't be destroyed under Bolsonaro... It is already being destroyed and has been for several decades. And what has the government done to stop it? Nothing. What would Haddad do to stop it? Nothing. Bolsonaro doesn't have a specific project for preservation either, but he has projects for enforcement, retaking of national sovereignity over strategic locations, and bringing economic alternatives to the region other than cutting down jungle to plant soybeans and raise cattle. That's more than any other president has ever done. Other leaders signed ambiental protection laws left and right... but with no action, with no enforcement, these laws are meaningless, nothing but ink on a sheet of paper.

Furthermore, that is part of a plan to de-centralize industry in the country. As it stands now, almost all industries are in the southeast and south, creating enormous economic disparity between regions. the North and Northeast are the most severely affected. Another plan of his is to bring Israeli technology to the Sertão of the norhteast - a barren, dry wasteland where many people don't even have access to water or food - in order to allow these people to plant vegetables, to feed themselves and their families, to sell to people. If you think most Brazilians voted for him just because they didn't want the other guy in power - that was a factor indeed, and a big one - but he does have genuinely great proposals, which in my opinion, weigh more than whatever bullshit he spouts.

I somehow doubt troops of inflamed gays would attack a morose Bolsonaro supporter had the second round turned against him, but let's continue.

Oh, you have no idea.
Inflamed gays... if only. We have several hard left wing groups, brutal criminal organizations that are essentially marxist in nature and have nation-wide reach, and our population routinely kills each other over soccer matches, yeah that's right, due to rooting for different clubs, let alone an election as polarizing as this.

I do have a lot of fears concerning Bolsonaro. For one, I am extremely concerned about a possible privatization of strategic resources, among other issues. As far as persecution is concerned, I have little doubt that he won't persecute anyone, but I do fear for the safety of some groups not because of government persecution but because of persecution from other members of the population itself. But overall, I think it's worth taking the chance. If I turn out to be wrong I'll be the first to admit it, but overall it's better to take the chance and get a chance at changing for the better, than going with the "safe" option that was going to take us on the same old, familiar path, which was very clearly not going to end well.

I disagree with Aellex on many things, but this is a very good post. I appreciate your going into detail on what “industrializing the Amazon” actually means.

[Great Minarchistan]

The transition from democracy to fascism has already begun.

http://honisoit.com/2018/10/universitie ... president/

More than 20 Brazilian universities were invaded by the military police in the past 2 days. They confiscated material on the history of fascism, interrupted classes due to 'ideological content', removed anti-fascist banners and posters claiming that it was electoral propaganda.

In the state of Rio, the court ordered the UFF faculty to remove from the Law School facade a flag with the message "UFF Law Against Fascism". The judge even determined the arrest of the director unless the flag was removed within 12 hours.

Enjoy your security and stability.

Ignore the fact that this is qualified as electoral propaganda -- which is banned by the law when performed in public places, regardless of the benefited side

[Great Minarchistan]

The world is finally fixing itself. Bolsonaro will make Brazil a prosperous and safe nation for everybody. The future is looking bright and I couldn't be happier.

Looks around.....Seems pretty dark.

You joking? He is going to drive Brazil further into the ground and further destroy the environment.

We were driven deep into the ground and our environment was resoundingly destroyed by a party that had thirteen years to correct our mess. Are you seriously believing that conceding another four years to the same party whose candidate is pretty much the reincarnation of the Workers' Party establishment would improve the situation relative to Bolsonaro? He has literally not even started off his presidency and you post this sort of bs.

[Great Minarchistan]

I just love how every fucking Brazilian on this thread, you know the people who actually had access to the media in their entirety rather than just the bits translated by an handful of journalists to whine about a candidate in particular, tell you people to chill the fuck out and stop pretending he's literally Hitler but you just can't stop yourself and just double down on it no matter how much they repeat that to you.

It's truly fun to witness, I gotta admit.

I know plenty of Brazilians who compare him to Hitler and call him a fascist.

Unironically know a handful of them and 80% of it is debased hysteria.