Brazil Second Presidential N Paliament Elections 2018 Genral

[Dahon]

My apologies for not replying at greater length -- unlike before, I'm typing this from my phone.

You have his words to defend him? I have his words to fear the worst from him. If he appealed to the worst instincts of the electorate -- including you -- to get himself elected without intending to put his platform into action, it sets a horrid precedent, and paves the way for those who'll walk the walk. If he fully intends to do as he says, on the other hand --

[United states of brazilian nations]

Oh, the "oh no he's going to persecute his political opponents" thing again.

Let it be known that the chances of that happening nears zero. Believe it or not, Bolsonaro is not the evil fascist the media makes him out to be. He's not going to persecute gays or leftists, he's not going to take away women's rights, he's not going to install a military dictatorship. He holds free speech to a much higher regard than PT or Haddad did - a quick look at their official government plans should be enough to tell you that.

He explicitly said it himself in an interview - freedom of speech is sacred and his government will be for everyone, whether they voted for him or not. Of course, words are different than actions, but frankly he's the most honest - brutally honest, even - of the candidates. His discourse is not as pretty and polished as Haddad's, but he was never dishonest

You're paraphrasing his dishonesty right now to claim he's not dishonest. He's maintained a track record for multiple decades of political beliefs exactly the opposite of that, so there's absolutely no reasonable reason to even remotely believe that he's being truthful for even a second there.

Yes, he also believed there was no way for Brazil to change democratically and only a military inntervention would be able to take PT away from power. Yet here he is, elected democratically.

He said a lot of shit back in the 90's and even early 2000's, yes he did. But that's the only thing he's got going against him. There is no reason to believe his stance on such subjects could not have changed, either, and even if they haven't that does not necessarily mean his government will follow his personal views.

Remember he was formed as a an officer in Agulhas Negras and as a combat parachutist, and coming from these environments it is unsurprising he has particularly strong views on certain aspects, especially in the beginning of his political career.

[United states of brazilian nations]

My apologies for not replying at greater length -- unlike before, I'm typing this from my phone.

You have his words to defend him? I have his words to fear the worst from him. If he appealed to the worst instincts of the electorate -- including you -- to get himself elected without intending to put his platform into action, it sets a horrid precedent, and paves the way for those who'll walk the walk. If he fully intends to do as he says, on the other hand --

The other side also appealed to the instincts of the electorate, in this case fear, which as it seems reached people abroad as well. There was no good boy, bad boy during these elections. Both sides played all the cards they could, and in the end the side which focused on the most important issues won.

[Dahon]

Fear that Bolsonaro will do as he says, fear that that man will be as despotic as president as he says he will be on the campaign trail. At the end of the day, that not-Bolsonaro did not win says more about the electorate that voted for Bolsonaro despite all he has said than anything else.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

Fear that Bolsonaro will do as he says, fear that that man will be as despotic as president as he says he will be on the campaign trail. At the end of the day, that not-Bolsonaro did not win says more about the electorate that voted for Bolsonaro despite all he has said than anything else.

Desperate people tend to vote such leaders, yeah.

[-Ocelot-]

The transition from democracy to fascism has already begun.

http://honisoit.com/2018/10/universitie ... president/

More than 20 Brazilian universities were invaded by the military police in the past 2 days. They confiscated material on the history of fascism, interrupted classes due to 'ideological content', removed anti-fascist banners and posters claiming that it was electoral propaganda.

In the state of Rio, the court ordered the UFF faculty to remove from the Law School facade a flag with the message "UFF Law Against Fascism". The judge even determined the arrest of the director unless the flag was removed within 12 hours.

Enjoy your security and stability.

[Dahon]

The transition from democracy to fascism has already begun.

http://honisoit.com/2018/10/universitie ... president/

More than 20 Brazilian universities were invaded by the military police in the past 2 days. They confiscated material on the history of fascism, interrupted classes due to 'ideological content', removed anti-fascist banners and posters claiming that it was electoral propaganda.

In the state of Rio, the court ordered the UFF faculty to remove from the Law School facade a flag with the message "UFF Law Against Fascism". The judge even determined the arrest of the director unless the flag was removed within 12 hours.

Enjoy your security and stability.

FUCK
FUCK
FUCK
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK

[Dahon]

There's your working congress
There's your courts
There they are, the first to kneel to offer up their sacrifices
All for the sake of power
What happens to people when leaders think only power only holding on to it only their righteousness matters?
People die
They shut up and die
They get jailed and die
They disappear and die
Die
Die
Die

[Empire of Narnia]

The world is finally fixing itself. Bolsonaro will make Brazil a prosperous and safe nation for everybody. The future is looking bright and I couldn't be happier.

[Mystic Warriors]

Brazil is screwed. Having somebody far right never works

It worked for Spain and Portugal.

No....it didn't.

[Mystic Warriors]

The world is finally fixing itself. Bolsonaro will make Brazil a prosperous and safe nation for everybody. The future is looking bright and I couldn't be happier.

Looks around.....Seems pretty dark.

You joking? He is going to drive Brazil further into the ground and further destroy the environment.

[Empire of Narnia]

The world is finally fixing itself. Bolsonaro will make Brazil a prosperous and safe nation for everybody. The future is looking bright and I couldn't be happier.

Looks around.....Seems pretty dark.

You joking? He is going to drive Brazil further into the ground and further destroy the environment.

The environment will be fine despite what the doomsayers think. His policies will give the economy the boost it needs to improve the standard of living for millions of people in Brazil.

[Mystic Warriors]

Looks around.....Seems pretty dark.

You joking? He is going to drive Brazil further into the ground and further destroy the environment.

The environment will be fine despite what the doomsayers think. His policies will give the economy the boost it needs to improve the standard of living for millions of people in Brazil.

So you are going too ignore decades of scientific evidence and trends ? Its facts, not doomsayers, stop being a deniar because it inconveniences you to accept the truth.


And whack Brazils economy tank.

[Empire of Narnia]

The environment will be fine despite what the doomsayers think. His policies will give the economy the boost it needs to improve the standard of living for millions of people in Brazil.

So you are going too ignore decades of scientific evidence and trends ? Its facts, not doomsayers, stop being a deniar because it inconveniences you to accept the truth.


And whack Brazils economy tank.

I was more talking about the people that act like he's gonna burn every tree in Brazil and pave over the Amazon. He'll open up some more land to farming, people will make a lot of money and everything will otherwise go along normally. The Brazilian economy is gonna do fine. Trust Narnia. He got the $$$

[Mystic Warriors]

So you are going too ignore decades of scientific evidence and trends ? Its facts, not doomsayers, stop being a deniar because it inconveniences you to accept the truth.


And whack Brazils economy tank.

I was more talking about the people that act like he's gonna burn every tree in Brazil and pave over the Amazon. He'll open up some more land to farming, people will make a lot of money and everything will otherwise go along normally. The Brazilian economy is gonna do fine. Trust Narnia. He got the $$$

No, you changed lines to cover your butt. And opening up lands is bad because it will further damage the Amazon.

[Empire of Narnia]

I was more talking about the people that act like he's gonna burn every tree in Brazil and pave over the Amazon. He'll open up some more land to farming, people will make a lot of money and everything will otherwise go along normally. The Brazilian economy is gonna do fine. Trust Narnia. He got the $$$

No, you changed lines to cover your butt. And opening up lands is bad because it will further damage the Amazon.

Things will be fine, we have the technology to fix everything but the Liberals are just too cheap and evil to do it. I'm not worried one bit. I'm gonna keep driving my SUV and I'm gonna keep eating KFC and smoking weed without a care in the world. The Liberals can drive their Smart cars and eat tofu if they want, but Narnia won't.

[Mystic Warriors]

No, you changed lines to cover your butt. And opening up lands is bad because it will further damage the Amazon.

Things will be fine, we have the technology to fix everything but the Liberals are just too cheap and evil to do it. I'm not worried one bit. I'm gonna keep driving my SUV and I'm gonna keep eating KFC and smoking weed without a care in the world. The Liberals can drive their Smart cars and eat tofu if they want, but Narnia won't.

I figured you were just screwing around.

[Dahon]

Are you Brazilian?

I'm a Filipino living in the Philippines. Welcome to this dark and troubled club we now inhabit! We shall suffer! Suffer!

(No, seriously, we will.)

Oh, the "oh no he's going to persecute his political opponents" thing again.

Let it be known that the chances of that happening nears zero.

As I type this, Ocelot brings us the latest, and evidently well-nigh-nonexistent is NOT no chance in hell.

Believe it or not, Bolsonaro is not the evil fascist the media makes him out to be. He's not going to persecute gays or leftists, he's not going to take away women's rights, he's not going to install a military dictatorship. He holds free speech to a much higher regard than PT or Haddad did - a quick look at their official government plans should be enough to tell you that.

Against your words... are his words. A whole Wikiquote page devoted to him and his words, complete with attributions and dates. Nine from before 2000, eight between 2000 and 2009, and... I didn't count to the end, but let's say at least thrice nine this decade alone. The majority of those quotes express his hatred of all those people you've enumerated, and clearly his hatred has only grown more fervent (and his prominence became more elevated) with time.

He explicitly said it himself in an interview - freedom of speech is sacred and his government will be for everyone, whether they voted for him or not. Of course, words are different than actions, but frankly he's the most honest - brutally honest, even - of the candidates. [...] He may have strong views on subjects, and he makes that pretty clear, but at least he's not hiding behind a mask.

This is something I hear as a kind of backhanded compliment whenever a majority elects a lunatic like Bolsonaro or a malevolent incompetent like Trump or a murder-minded man like Duterte: "He's honest." I see little value in honesty if that honesty beholds a man who wants to use the power given him by you and the majority of your compatriots specifically so he can do all those you see disgracing his Wikiquote page and more, especially when he says it to your face that he will absolutely do the things he says.

Furthermore, I highly doubt he'll do anything crazy in his government - and if by chance he does, since people think he's an absolute crazy madman, congress will be ready to counter it.

Of course you can elect someone who isn't fucking batshit -- pardon my French -- rather than elect him and hope the other branches of government check him before he does his worst, instead of seeing him as the key to their continued hold on power and thus ingratiating themselves to him through essentially being a rubber-stamp for the policies he wants, as has happened under my Duterte and the United States' Trump, or outright terrorizing all peaceful opposition into impotence, as seems likely with your Bolsonaro.

If I'm peevishly snarking now, it's because your electoral logic is ass backwards, but then again "ass backwards" seems to be the rule this longest year -- instead of electing someone sane to do the things he wants and you want, you elect someone insane, and expect him to act sane.

In either case, the amazon is already being fucked over immensely and the previous governments did nothing to stop it. Why? Is it a lack of laws? No, we have the environment protection laws. It is a lack of enforcement. Our armed forces don't have nearly the budget, resources or legal backing to patrol the amazon and take action against people who may not be respecting such laws. This is why giving the armed forces the budget, equipment and legal backing they need to operate effectively is so important. But no other candidates touched upon that, except Álvaro Dias and Ciro Gomes, to the best of my knowledge.

Which is why handing over the reins to someone who has vowed to industrialize the Amazon, instead to someone who promises to give its environmental and indigenous affairs agencies the money and muscle to enforce the laws already in place, is genius.

And since it seems these days death and suffering only matters to people if the ones dying and suffering are minorities

The vitality of any given democracy is measured by the legal and social protections it gives its minorities so they can function as fully participating members of society, whoever they might be and however they are defined within the same. It is to this extent that people accustomed to such protections are outraged whenever they see countries like yours fail on that front. But this is a rather minor matter for this time, if obviously not in the larger scheme of things.

Each year, over 60 thousand people are murdered in this country. To put things into perspective, that's more people than the number of soldiers the United States lost during the entire Vietnam war.

Again, handing over power to a man who has vowed to abuse it to the fullest is not the way to go, even if the other branches of your government check him effectively. At best, you have a rabid duck, shackled by constitutional restraints but an inspiration to authoritarians who won't be as accommodating; at best... well...

We are on the wake of the most controversial and polarizing election in Brazilian history. No matter who won, the outcome wasn't going to be peaceful.

I somehow doubt troops of inflamed gays would attack a morose Bolsonaro supporter had the second round turned against him, but let's continue.

With either candidate elected, there would be rioting, there would be people going after people with different political views than theirs - individuals, mind you, not the government - and there would be deaths. This is very unfortunate, but inevitable given how the country was boiling over in this second round. What we cannot let happen is have this blood be shed in vain - and if we can reduce the number of murders, if we can stop losing more people each year than the US lost during the entire Vietnam war due to violence, then it will not have been in vain.

I understand this sentiment, I really do. At the same time, though? Bolsonaro is not the man for the job. You said it yourself -- the man's an absolute crazy madman, and he might just take you all -- and we all -- for a ride to hell.

[Aellex]

Oh, the "oh no he's going to persecute his political opponents" thing again.

Let it be known that the chances of that happening nears zero. Believe it or not, Bolsonaro is not the evil fascist the media makes him out to be. He's not going to persecute gays or leftists, he's not going to take away women's rights, he's not going to install a military dictatorship. He holds free speech to a much higher regard than PT or Haddad did - a quick look at their official government plans should be enough to tell you that.

He explicitly said it himself in an interview - freedom of speech is sacred and his government will be for everyone, whether they voted for him or not. Of course, words are different than actions, but frankly he's the most honest - brutally honest, even - of the candidates. His discourse is not as pretty and polished as Haddad's, but he was never dishonest

You're paraphrasing his dishonesty right now to claim he's not dishonest. He's maintained a track record for multiple decades of political beliefs exactly the opposite of that, so there's absolutely no reasonable reason to even remotely believe that he's being truthful for even a second there.

I just love how every fucking Brazilian on this thread, you know the people who actually had access to the media in their entirety rather than just the bits translated by an handful of journalists to whine about a candidate in particular, tell you people to chill the fuck out and stop pretending he's literally Hitler but you just can't stop yourself and just double down on it no matter how much they repeat that to you.

It's truly fun to witness, I gotta admit.

[Dahon]

My lack of Portuguese comprehension and my not being in Brazil are admittedly big drawbacks, and I can understand if any Brazilian reading this thread gets piqued by my hysterics, to cite one example, to a point.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

You're paraphrasing his dishonesty right now to claim he's not dishonest. He's maintained a track record for multiple decades of political beliefs exactly the opposite of that, so there's absolutely no reasonable reason to even remotely believe that he's being truthful for even a second there.

I just love how every fucking Brazilian on this thread, you know the people who actually had access to the media in their entirety rather than just the bits translated by an handful of journalists to whine about a candidate in particular, tell you people to chill the fuck out and stop pretending he's literally Hitler but you just can't stop yourself and just double down on it no matter how much they repeat that to you.

It's truly fun to witness, I gotta admit.

I know plenty of Brazilians who compare him to Hitler and call him a fascist.

[Dahon]

I just love how every fucking Brazilian on this thread, you know the people who actually had access to the media in their entirety rather than just the bits translated by an handful of journalists to whine about a candidate in particular, tell you people to chill the fuck out and stop pretending he's literally Hitler but you just can't stop yourself and just double down on it no matter how much they repeat that to you.

It's truly fun to witness, I gotta admit.

I know plenty of Brazilians who compare him to Hitler and call him a fascist.

It's "he said she said" except one side's begging us to ignore what he says.

[Aellex]

I know plenty of Brazilians who compare him to Hitler and call him a fascist.

If you say so. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Proctopeo]

I just love how every fucking Brazilian on this thread, you know the people who actually had access to the media in their entirety rather than just the bits translated by an handful of journalists to whine about a candidate in particular, tell you people to chill the fuck out and stop pretending he's literally Hitler but you just can't stop yourself and just double down on it no matter how much they repeat that to you.

It's truly fun to witness, I gotta admit.

I know plenty of Brazilians who compare him to Hitler and call him a fascist.

I know every living Brazilian and all of them think he's a god among mortals here to save Brazil from the claws of communism.
Ave, true to Bolsonaro.

[-Ocelot-]

I know plenty of Brazilians who compare him to Hitler and call him a fascist.

I know every living Brazilian and all of them think he's a god among mortals here to save Brazil from the claws of communism.
Ave, true to Bolsonaro.

Maybe they deserve to be oppressed and learn why fascism is bad the hard way.