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Brazil Second Presidential N Paliament Elections 2018 Genral

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Brazil second round Presidential Elections Vote and Post

1 - We support Far Right Wing former army Captain Jair Bolsonaro and retired General Antonio Hamilton Mourão of the Far Right Wing Conservative Social Liberal Party of Brazil for President and Vice President of Brazil.
104
49%
2 - We support Fernando Haddad of the Far Leftist Workers Party of Brazil and Manuela D'avila of the Communist Party of Brazil, together we can win, for President and Vice President of Brazil.
73
34%
3 - We support neither candidates and we vote Blank Ballots, either candidates will be bad for Brazil and the Brazilian people.
37
17%
 
Total votes : 214

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Greed and Death
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Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Greed and Death » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:09 pm

Shrillland wrote:
Greed and Death wrote:The social Liberal Party (PSL) won. So I assume that means the conservatives lost right ?


No, PSL is the conservative party led by Bolsonaro. They were actual social liberals until Bolsonaro hijacked the party and made it right-wing nationalist so saith Wiki.

He also made them start winning. So as I always say Power is Power.
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Trumptonium1
Senator
 
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Founded: Apr 03, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Trumptonium1 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:10 pm

Shrillland wrote:
Greed and Death wrote:The social Liberal Party (PSL) won. So I assume that means the conservatives lost right ?


No, PSL is the conservative party led by Bolsonaro. They were actual social liberals until Bolsonaro hijacked the party and made it right-wing nationalist so saith Wiki.


sigh

the world does not revolve around america

in fact, in the vast majority of the planet outside of america, canada and the UK, 'liberal' does not mean liberal in social views. not just is this visible in australia of all places, but also brazil.

PSL was never progressive-liberal in the western sense. it was, and continues to be, a libertarian party.
Last edited by Trumptonium1 on Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Torrocca
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Posts: 26912
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Torrocca » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:10 pm

Germanic Templars wrote:
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
No proper Fascist would permit, endorse, or tolerate the destruction of the Amazon. Fascists have always been Environmentalists, sorry to break that to you.


Shhhhhh. Torrocca cannot handle the truth.


Sure I can.

The truth's pretty different from dishonest debate, though. :^)

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
>History is written by the victors

Aaaaand there's about the point where I came to the natural conclusion that I've no reason to take anything you say at face value, either, considering how mind-bogglingly stupid and bullshit that statement alone is.


Just as well. I already put you on my foes list anyway, seeing as you can't hold a mature argument with anyone who even slightly dissents from your opinion.


Sure I can; Fascist apologia's a wee bit more than just, "slight dissent," for your information.

You don't know everything; stop acting like it.


I never said I do. Seems you fancy yourself one to know everything about me, though.
Communist now and forever.
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
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Rio Cana
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Posts: 10251
Founded: Dec 21, 2005
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Rio Cana » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:10 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Trumptonium1 wrote:
liberals find it hard to stomach that fascists were the first to endorse environmentalism and animal rights, since liberals find breathing the same air as fascists scandalous, so anything they did must be done in the opposite manner. unfortunately that brings them to realities they don't want to face, like supporting industry over the environment.

Bolsonaro said he wants to end all environmental regulations and could care less about the Amazon


Bol, represents the Federal government. There is still the State governments in which these jungles are located.
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Trumptonium1
Senator
 
Posts: 4022
Founded: Apr 03, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Trumptonium1 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:12 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Trumptonium1 wrote:
liberals find it hard to stomach that fascists were the first to endorse environmentalism and animal rights, since liberals find breathing the same air as fascists scandalous, so anything they did must be done in the opposite manner. unfortunately that brings them to realities they don't want to face, like supporting industry over the environment.

Bolsonaro said he wants to end all environmental regulations and could care less about the Amazon


he doesn't want to end environmental regulations, he wants to end pollution regulations, and he said he is apathetic towards the amazon. in any case, as the poster above said, this is actually the job of the state governments, not the federal government. these sorts of farming permits are not granted by the federal government. did you ever see someone applying for a homestead pasture to the white house?
Last edited by Trumptonium1 on Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:13 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Germanic Templars
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20585
Founded: Jul 01, 2011
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Germanic Templars » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:13 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Germanic Templars wrote:
Shhhhhh. Torrocca cannot handle the truth.


Sure I can.

The truth's pretty different from dishonest debate, though. :^)


So, something that you have been spewing? Dishonesty? It seems like it to me there, pot.

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Torrocca
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Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Torrocca » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:15 pm

Germanic Templars wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Sure I can.

The truth's pretty different from dishonest debate, though. :^)


So, something that you have been spewing? Dishonesty? It seems like it to me there, pot.


Considering I've only really used Bolsonaro's own positions to come to the logical conclusion that he's indeed a Fascist fuckwit, I'd hardly call that dishonesty. :^)
Communist now and forever.
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Fascism is not debated, it is destroyed." - [b]Buenaventura Durruti

"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3
Suggestions welcome!

Capital - Karl Marx and Frederich Engels
Wage Labor and Capital - Karl Marx
The Conquest of Bread - Peter Kropotkin
Mutual Aid - Peter Kropotkin
Statism and Anarchy - Mikhail Bakunin

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Trollzyn the Infinite
Minister
 
Posts: 2983
Founded: Aug 22, 2018
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Trollzyn the Infinite » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:15 pm

Trumptonium1 wrote:
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
No proper Fascist would permit, endorse, or tolerate the destruction of the Amazon. Fascists have always been Environmentalists, sorry to break that to you.


liberals find it hard to stomach that fascists were the first to endorse environmentalism and animal rights, since liberals find breathing the same air as fascists scandalous, so anything they did must be done in the opposite manner. unfortunately that brings them to realities they don't want to face, like supporting industry over the environment.


You know what? I actually hold a lot of political views that one might consider 'liberal', and even I can't fucking stand the average liberal. I miss the days when politics were toxic on every spectrum.

Germanic Templars wrote:
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
No proper Fascist would permit, endorse, or tolerate the destruction of the Amazon. Fascists have always been Environmentalists, sorry to break that to you.


Shhhhhh. Torrocca cannot handle the truth.

As for destroying the Amazon, that has been fucked for decades well before the "fascist" got in control. Because let's face it, the party in control gave little shits about the country in the first place.


Brazil has pretty much always been in the gutter. I mean, who the Hell in their right mind chooses FIFA over a space program?

Torrocca wrote:
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
No proper Fascist would permit, endorse, or tolerate the destruction of the Amazon. Fascists have always been Environmentalists, sorry to break that to you.


Ooh baby, it's everyone's favorite fallacy! A, "No True Scotsman," in the wild, and an actual, proper one at that!


It's not a fallacy when it's literally fucking part of the belief system.

Jesus Christ...
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Rio Cana
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Founded: Dec 21, 2005
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Rio Cana » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:15 pm

Wonder if Bol. foreign policy toward his neighboring nations will be tough or stay has it is. If he wants Brazilian trade to get to the Pacific via an overland route he cannot be too tough with his neighbors.
National Information
Empire of Rio Cana has been refounded.
We went from Empire to Peoples Republic to two divided Republics one called Marina to back to an Empire. And now a Republic under a military General. Our Civilian Dance Force
Our Military Forces
Formerly appointed twice Minister of Defense for South America Region.
Formerly appointed Minister of Foreign Affairs for South America Region.

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Torrocca
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Posts: 26912
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Torrocca » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:15 pm

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Ooh baby, it's everyone's favorite fallacy! A, "No True Scotsman," in the wild, and an actual, proper one at that!


It's not a fallacy when it's literally fucking part of the belief system.

Jesus Christ...


Not all Fascists are pro-environmentalists, therefore you're wrong.
Communist now and forever.
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Fascism is not debated, it is destroyed." - [b]Buenaventura Durruti

"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3
Suggestions welcome!

Capital - Karl Marx and Frederich Engels
Wage Labor and Capital - Karl Marx
The Conquest of Bread - Peter Kropotkin
Mutual Aid - Peter Kropotkin
Statism and Anarchy - Mikhail Bakunin

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Thermodolia
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 59434
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:17 pm

Shrillland wrote:
San Lumen wrote:With Bolsonaro’s victory it is time to say farewell to democracy in Brazil and even more sadly the Amazon rainforest. This will be a day remembered for generations to come. That’s if there even is a world for our children to inherit.


AH, well. Democracy's died in Latin America before, it always bounces back. Besides, the Social Liberals are second behind the PT in the Chamber and tied for 10th place in the Senate, so he'll still need a hefty coalition to get things done.

PT wasn’t much better either. It was basically the choice between a left dictatorship or a right dictatorship.
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Freezic Vast
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Ex-Nation

Postby Freezic Vast » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:17 pm

Rio Cana wrote:Wonder if Bol. foreign policy toward his neighboring nations will be tough or stay has it is. If he wants Brazilian trade to get to the Pacific via an overland route he cannot be too tough with his neighbors.

So an invasion of Peru is out of the question? :p
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Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 59847
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Liriena » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:20 pm


[unexpected love for the state of Argie politics intensifies]
be gay do crime


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Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
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For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
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Liriena
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Liriena » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:21 pm

Trumptonium1 wrote:Haddad is LITERALLY Stalin. did you even see his policies?

Don't threaten me with a good time
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
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Shrillland
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Posts: 13019
Founded: Apr 12, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Shrillland » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:21 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Freezic Vast wrote:
Image

Forgive me for caring about the planet and not just myself


Besides, he still has Congress to contend with. Here are the totals of the pro-Bolsonaro and pro-Haddad blocs based on who gave support during the second campaign:

Chamber:
Pro-Bolsonaro: 104(PSL, PSD, PTB, PSC,)
Pro-Haddad: 129(PT, PDT, PSB, PSOL, PPL, REDE, DC)
Unpledged: 280

Senate:
Pro-Bolsonaro: 15
Pro-Haddad: 22
Unpledged: 44

So it won't be as simply as you think, Lumen. And there's no guarantee that the military would just stand by and go with his dreams of restoring the junta.
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Trollzyn the Infinite
Minister
 
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Founded: Aug 22, 2018
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Trollzyn the Infinite » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:21 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
It's not a fallacy when it's literally fucking part of the belief system.

Jesus Christ...


Not all Fascists are pro-environmentalists, therefore you're wrong.


Got any examples? Because I've never met one that wasn't. Fascists are all about spiritual reverence for their nation and homeland, so I find it really hard to believe they'd endorse letting corporations and industry just trash it to make a quick buck.
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Kowani
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Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:21 pm

Trumptonium1 wrote:
Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... s-to-fight


he's >>literally hitler<< because he wants to jail corrupt leftist politicians and violent leftist mobs?

aight, sounds legit then. someone better be on the lookout for any import requests of gases at this point.

Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States wrote:Well, last time it landed us with the most destructive war in human history. Name me a radical right-wing populist, nationalist government that does not have the blood of dissidents and minorities on its hands.


singapore, south korea, interwar poland, interwar czechoslovakia, interwar finland, interwar yugoslavia (for the most part), salazar portugal (colonies excluded), apartheid south africa (for the most part)

South Korea. :eyebrow: I’m gonna need proof of all this right wing populism.
Also, wasn’t Salazar’s Portugal radical left wing?

And no, Apartheid South Africa has a crap ton of blood on its hands.
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Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 59847
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Liriena » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:22 pm

Rio Cana wrote:Wonder if Bol. foreign policy toward his neighboring nations will be tough or stay has it is. If he wants Brazilian trade to get to the Pacific via an overland route he cannot be too tough with his neighbors.

Yeah, he's gonna need to have a good relationship with us argies or the Bolivians for that, and things aren't looking very good for Macrismo over here.
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


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Shrillland
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13019
Founded: Apr 12, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Shrillland » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:23 pm

Trumptonium1 wrote:
Shrillland wrote:
No, PSL is the conservative party led by Bolsonaro. They were actual social liberals until Bolsonaro hijacked the party and made it right-wing nationalist so saith Wiki.


sigh

the world does not revolve around america

in fact, in the vast majority of the planet outside of america, canada and the UK, 'liberal' does not mean liberal in social views. not just is this visible in australia of all places, but also brazil.

PSL was never progressive-liberal in the western sense. it was, and continues to be, a libertarian party.


When did I say that it did? I know what social liberal means in the world, and that's why I said they were. They're not exactly libertarian at the moment considering Bolsonaro's views, they're more like an illiberal party right now.
Last edited by Shrillland on Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Trollzyn the Infinite
Minister
 
Posts: 2983
Founded: Aug 22, 2018
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Trollzyn the Infinite » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:25 pm

Kowani wrote:
Trumptonium1 wrote:
he's >>literally hitler<< because he wants to jail corrupt leftist politicians and violent leftist mobs?

aight, sounds legit then. someone better be on the lookout for any import requests of gases at this point.



singapore, south korea, interwar poland, interwar czechoslovakia, interwar finland, interwar yugoslavia (for the most part), salazar portugal (colonies excluded), apartheid south africa (for the most part)

South Korea. :eyebrow: I’m gonna need proof of all this right wing populism.
Also, wasn’t Salazar’s Portugal radical left wing?

And no, Apartheid South Africa has a crap ton of blood on its hands.


Salazar was definitely not a Leftist. He was heavily inspired by Fascism, even though he thought Fascism was "barbaric".
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Kowani
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 22294
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:26 pm

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
Kowani wrote:South Korea. :eyebrow: I’m gonna need proof of all this right wing populism.
Also, wasn’t Salazar’s Portugal radical left wing?

And no, Apartheid South Africa has a crap ton of blood on its hands.


Salazar was definitely not a Leftist. He was heavily inspired by Fascism, even though he thought Fascism was "barbaric".

Thank you.
Spanish Atheist.
“The rocks were covered with blackbirds and there were the Geirfugles ... They walked slowly. Jón Brandsson crept up with his arms open. The bird that Jón got went into a corner but mine was going to the edge of the cliff. It walked like a man ... but moved its feet quickly. [I] caught it close to the edge – a precipice many fathoms deep. Its wings lay close to the sides – not hanging out. I took him by the neck and he flapped his wings. He made no cry. I strangled him.

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Uxupox
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13448
Founded: Nov 13, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Uxupox » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:26 pm

Kowani wrote:
Trumptonium1 wrote:
he's >>literally hitler<< because he wants to jail corrupt leftist politicians and violent leftist mobs?

aight, sounds legit then. someone better be on the lookout for any import requests of gases at this point.



singapore, south korea, interwar poland, interwar czechoslovakia, interwar finland, interwar yugoslavia (for the most part), salazar portugal (colonies excluded), apartheid south africa (for the most part)

South Korea. :eyebrow: I’m gonna need proof of all this right wing populism.
Also, wasn’t Salazar’s Portugal radical left wing?

And no, Apartheid South Africa has a crap ton of blood on its hands.


Estado Novo was pretty much a right wing coalition ruling under Salazar's wings.

We are opposed to all forms of Internationalism, Communism, Socialism, Syndicalism and everything that may divide or minimise, or break up the family. We are against class warfare, irreligion and disloyalty to one's country; against serfdom, a materialistic conception of life, and might over right.
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Virgolia
Secretary
 
Posts: 28
Founded: Apr 19, 2018
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Virgolia » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:28 pm

Everyone is talking about his policies towards the left and minorities,but what really matter is how will he handle the Brazilian Economy,Because if he doesn't do a good job it won't be just the brazilians who will be affected,but South America as a whole.

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United Muscovite Nations
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25668
Founded: Feb 01, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby United Muscovite Nations » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:28 pm

Shrillland wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Forgive me for caring about the planet and not just myself


Besides, he still has Congress to contend with. Here are the totals of the pro-Bolsonaro and pro-Haddad blocs based on who gave support during the second campaign:

Chamber:
Pro-Bolsonaro: 104(PSL, PSD, PTB, PSC,)
Pro-Haddad: 129(PT, PDT, PSB, PSOL, PPL, REDE, DC)
Unpledged: 280

Senate:
Pro-Bolsonaro: 15
Pro-Haddad: 22
Unpledged: 44

So it won't be as simply as you think, Lumen. And there's no guarantee that the military would just stand by and go with his dreams of restoring the junta.

If he has as much support from the military as he seems to, he can, and he's said that he does want to restore the junta.
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The world is grey, the mountains old, the forges fire is ashen cold. No harp is wrung, no hammer falls, the darkness dwells in Durin's halls...
Formerly United Marxist Nations, Dec 02, 2011- Feb 01, 2017. +33,837 posts
Borderline Personality Disorder, currently in treatment. I apologize if I blow up at you. TG me for info, can't discuss publicly because the mods support stigma on mental illness.

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Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 59847
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Liriena » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:29 pm

Trumptonium1 wrote:it was, and continues to be, a libertarian party.

Oh hell yeah dude keep helping

You are doing god's work undermining the very idea of right-wing "libertarianism" by identifying it with a party led by militaristic authoritarians who want to slaughter those who dissent with them and whose followers attack women and minorities
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

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