Thousands of Hondurans heading toward the US

[Liriena]

I really wish people would stop generalizing others.

Now you know how we feel.

Who's "we"?

[Azurius]

Or you could reform your immigration laws, instead of putting children in concentration camps and forcing them to defend themselves in immigration courts.

Because it's totally our fault that people are dragging their children across the border and getting caught.

I like to think our immigration laws are pretty simple and to the point. And compared to other nations we're doing a pretty darn good job. Besides, you folks didn't bat an eye when it happened under Obama. What's with the sudden outrage now?

Picky, picky...

So, you are saying that the current regime in Honduras wasn´t allowed by America? It was in fact as America did jackshit to both stop the coup or support the legaly elected president. Nor did America nullify the votes although given the fact that there was: A lack of freedom of personal movement, freedom of association, freedom of speech and free media, which effectively makes any vote results undemocratic and null and void. America could have once again shot that down but instead they backed out entirely sabotaging the work of the OAS too.

So yes, it is IS your fault to a large degree yes!

And if there was any fairness in the UN you americans would now be FORCED to deal with them.

Btw.: Yup Obama was not innocent but the main sabotaging work was done by your republican wing of congress.

Sources:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Hond ... 7%C3%A9tat

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internati ... 7%C3%A9tat

[El-Amin Caliphate]

I really wish people would stop generalizing others.

Now you know how we feel.

I'm a right-winger as well. And tbh on NSG, I've seen rightists (particularly the far-right) to generalize the left.

[Chernoslavia]

Who'd be stopping them from going to Tijuana.

The distance and water-crossings.

You know they can just take the San Luis right?

[Neutraligon]

If I wanted illegal benefits I wouldn´t be heading towards America in the first place, nor even Germany for that matter as of lately. Destinations like Sweden or Canada would seems more lucrative or actualy, Eastern Europe.... Sure not much benefits to get there but easy as hell to scam and set up sucessfull black businesses there.

I don't know how much that would cost, but in terms of money it would most likely be a lot more expensive. I think at least.

Given that the wall would still have to be patrolled, and that it would need upkeep not sure about that. Given our track record on our infrastructure though...who knows.

[Renolia]

Because it's totally our fault that people are dragging their children across the border and getting caught.

"Your parents made me do this," cries the concentration camp guard as he locks literal toddlers in cages and turns a blind eye to the sexual abuse committed by his fellow guards.

Yeah, very compelling argument. Nothing childish and irresponsible about it.

I like to think our immigration laws are pretty simple and to the point.

http://static.openlawlab.com/uploads/2011/10/IMmigration-Law-Comic-Terry-Colon-Reason.jpg

Besides, you folks didn't bat an eye when it happened under Obama.

Fuck Obama and fuck your lazy, shitty ass deflection. What else have you got?

You keep making these claims, that I assume are at least based on some case that happened but still would not represent the entirety of the system. Implying all guards of these facilities sexually abuse the children or turn a blind eye to abuse. That is simply ridiculous.

[Uxupox]

Because it's totally our fault that people are dragging their children across the border and getting caught.

I like to think our immigration laws are pretty simple and to the point. And compared to other nations we're doing a pretty darn good job. Besides, you folks didn't bat an eye when it happened under Obama. What's with the sudden outrage now?

Picky, picky...

So, you are saying that the current regime in Honduras wasn´t allowed by America? It was in fact as America did jackshit to both stop the coup or support the legaly elected president. Nor did America nullify the votes although given the fact that there was: A lack of freedom of personal movement, freedom of association, freedom of speech and free media, which effectively makes any vote results undemocratic and null and void. America could have once again shot that down but instead they backed out entirely sabotaging the work of the OAS too.

So yes, it is IS your fault to a large degree yes!

And if there was any fairness in the UN you americans would now be FORCED to deal with them.

Btw.: Yup Obama was not innocent but the main sabotaging work was done by your republican wing of congress.

Sources:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Hond ... 7%C3%A9tat

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internati ... 7%C3%A9tat

so because the United States did absolutely nothing it's their fault? what?

[Harelia]

I really wish people would stop generalizing others.

Apparently all leftists are commies and all rightists are facscist. Making distinctions is for subhumans and class enemies.

How many straws are you going to grasp at? Just drink your juice, man.

[Len Hyet]

Because it's totally our fault that people are dragging their children across the border and getting caught.

I like to think our immigration laws are pretty simple and to the point. And compared to other nations we're doing a pretty darn good job. Besides, you folks didn't bat an eye when it happened under Obama. What's with the sudden outrage now?

Picky, picky...

So, you are saying that the current regime in Honduras wasn´t allowed by America? It was in fact as America did jackshit to both stop the coup or support the legaly elected president. Nor did America nullify the votes although given the fact that there was: A lack of freedom of personal movement, freedom of association, freedom of speech and free media, which effectively makes any vote results undemocratic and null and void. America could have once again shot that down but instead they backed out entirely sabotaging the work of the OAS too.

So yes, it is IS your fault to a large degree yes!

And if there was any fairness in the UN you americans would now be FORCED to deal with them.

Btw.: Yup Obama was not innocent but the main sabotaging work was done by your republican wing of congress.

Sources:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Hond ... 7%C3%A9tat

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internati ... 7%C3%A9tat

America: interferes in other countries political processes
World: "America WTF you can't play world police stop meddling!"

America: doesn't interfere in other countries political processes
World: "America WTF you have to interfere why aren't you interfering BE THE WORLD POLICE!"

Nah, thanks. Not our problem if some third world country experiences a coup. Damn shame, but not our problem anymore.

[Renolia]

Because it's totally our fault that people are dragging their children across the border and getting caught.

I like to think our immigration laws are pretty simple and to the point. And compared to other nations we're doing a pretty darn good job. Besides, you folks didn't bat an eye when it happened under Obama. What's with the sudden outrage now?

Picky, picky...

So, you are saying that the current regime in Honduras wasn´t allowed by America? It was in fact as America did jackshit to both stop the coup or support the legaly elected president. Nor did America nullify the votes although given the fact that there was: A lack of freedom of personal movement, freedom of association, freedom of speech and free media, which effectively makes any vote results undemocratic and null and void. America could have once again shot that down but instead they backed out entirely sabotaging the work of the OAS too.

So yes, it is IS your fault to a large degree yes!

And if there was any fairness in the UN you americans would now be FORCED to deal with them.

Btw.: Yup Obama was not innocent but the main sabotaging work was done by your republican wing of congress.

Sources:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Hond ... 7%C3%A9tat

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internati ... 7%C3%A9tat

> Sees both sources are Wikipedia
> Laughs

[Uxupox]

Now you know how we feel.

I'm a right-winger as well. And tbh on NSG, I've seen rightists (particularly the far-right) to generalize the left.

everybody generalizes everybody it seems. it something that brings people together in some sort of mindful dissonance with each other.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Just help the immigrants get citizenship. Put them on a cruise ship and/or on a plane, and on a bus, and take to America for citizenship. It's that easy. Well, the plan is easy, at least.

... I have a feeling you do not understand the American citizenship process. The average wait time is somewhere around two years after you file the paperwork. The residency requirement is 3-5 years, so all told you're looking at 5-7 years, minimum.

Hence the reason for my last sentence.

Now you know how we feel.

Who's "we"?

^This

[Liriena]

https://qz.com/1308141/are-us-immigrant ... ion-camps/
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/30/poli ... index.html

Neither of those establish them as "concentration camps".

Today’s US detention centers, she says, fit the original concept of a concentration camp: Children are being detained not because they are guilty of a crime, but as a strategy to terrify immigrant parents considering crossing the US-Mexico border illegally. (“It could be a tough deterrent—would be a tough deterrent. A much faster turnaround on asylum seekers, ” White House chief of staff John Kelly told NPR in May.)

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44518942

"One cage had 20 children inside. Scattered about are bottles of water, bags of chips [crisps] and large foil sheets intended to serve as blankets," the Associated Press reports.

But Anne Chandler, who's running a non-profit project for migrant children found on the southern US border, told Texas Monthly she had heard stories of "kids that are very young, that are breastfeeding babies and under three in the shelters, separated from their parents".

The head of the Tahirih Justice Centre in Houston said she had seen cases where parents had not been told ahead of time that their child was being taken away, and instead were told by immigration officers that their child required a bath, only to not be returned.

"I was talking to one mother, and she said, "Don't take my child away," and the child started screaming and vomiting and crying hysterically, and she asked the officers, "Can I at least have five minutes to console her?" They said no," Ms Chandler told the magazine.

A rights worker who visited the Ursula facility at the weekend told the Associated Press she had spoken to a 16-year-old girl who was left in charge of an unaccompanied toddler for three days and tasked with changing the child's nappies.

"She had to teach other kids in the cell to change her diaper," Michelle Brane, from the Women's Refugee Commission, said. The girl - who was four years old - was later reunited with her aunt, but the process took time because she did not speak Spanish but a language indigenous to Guatemala, the agency reports.

"She was so traumatised that she wasn't talking," Ms Brane said, describing the girl. "She was just curled up in a little ball."

She is not alone in voicing concerns over the long-term effects of separating adults and their children.

The American Academy of Pediatrics warned last week that "highly stressful experiences, including family separation, can cause irreparable harm to lifelong development by disrupting a child's brain architecture".

Separately, authorities have announced plans to erect tent cities that will hold hundreds more children in the Texas desert where temperatures regularly reach 40C (105F).

Local lawmaker Jose Rodriguez described the plan as "totally inhumane" and "outrageous", adding: "It should be condemned by anyone who has a moral sense of responsibility."

[El-Amin Caliphate]

So, you are saying that the current regime in Honduras wasn´t allowed by America? It was in fact as America did jackshit to both stop the coup or support the legaly elected president. Nor did America nullify the votes although given the fact that there was: A lack of freedom of personal movement, freedom of association, freedom of speech and free media, which effectively makes any vote results undemocratic and null and void. America could have once again shot that down but instead they backed out entirely sabotaging the work of the OAS too.

So yes, it is IS your fault to a large degree yes!

And if there was any fairness in the UN you americans would now be FORCED to deal with them.

Btw.: Yup Obama was not innocent but the main sabotaging work was done by your republican wing of congress.

Sources:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Hond ... 7%C3%A9tat

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internati ... 7%C3%A9tat

America: interferes in other countries political processes
World: "America WTF you can't play world police stop meddling!"

America: doesn't interfere in other countries political processes
World: "America WTF you have to interfere why aren't you interfering BE THE WORLD POLICE!"

Nah, thanks. Not our problem if some third world country experiences a coup. Damn shame, but not our problem anymore.

When America is the cause that a country collapses, and does nothing about it, or does a shammy job at it, it is our fault.

[Azurius]

So, you are saying that the current regime in Honduras wasn´t allowed by America? It was in fact as America did jackshit to both stop the coup or support the legaly elected president. Nor did America nullify the votes although given the fact that there was: A lack of freedom of personal movement, freedom of association, freedom of speech and free media, which effectively makes any vote results undemocratic and null and void. America could have once again shot that down but instead they backed out entirely sabotaging the work of the OAS too.

So yes, it is IS your fault to a large degree yes!

And if there was any fairness in the UN you americans would now be FORCED to deal with them.

Btw.: Yup Obama was not innocent but the main sabotaging work was done by your republican wing of congress.

Sources:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Hond ... 7%C3%A9tat

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internati ... 7%C3%A9tat

so because the United States did absolutely nothing it's their fault? what?

You know that you are obliged by international war to not recognize rogue states/dictatorships?

Also nice try to talk your way out with a totaly nonsensical oxymoron.

However from my side: Yes actually, i´d find it better if America did NOTHING and also absolutely 100% of the time too because usualy when america meddles, it only makes things worse.

Oh P.S. You did something, wrong too again in this example Lmao. You recognized this rogue regime, that was pretty much the only action you took.

Once again I had prefered if you had done nothing in this case and hence at least have given Europe and the OAS a chance to fix that mess.

Edit: Ah yeah right, Americas vote btw. also automaticaly forced the OAS states to vote the same too. All in the sourced articles. Again you did something, BAD that is.

[Chernoslavia]

So, you are saying that the current regime in Honduras wasn´t allowed by America? It was in fact as America did jackshit to both stop the coup or support the legaly elected president. Nor did America nullify the votes although given the fact that there was: A lack of freedom of personal movement, freedom of association, freedom of speech and free media, which effectively makes any vote results undemocratic and null and void. America could have once again shot that down but instead they backed out entirely sabotaging the work of the OAS too.

So yes, it is IS your fault to a large degree yes!

And if there was any fairness in the UN you americans would now be FORCED to deal with them.

Btw.: Yup Obama was not innocent but the main sabotaging work was done by your republican wing of congress.

Sources:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Hond ... 7%C3%A9tat

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internati ... 7%C3%A9tat

> Sees both sources are Wikipedia
> Laughs

To be honest wiki sources are fine so long as they're sourced accurately. Don't know about those two link though.

[Harelia]

Because it's totally our fault that people are dragging their children across the border and getting caught.

I like to think our immigration laws are pretty simple and to the point. And compared to other nations we're doing a pretty darn good job. Besides, you folks didn't bat an eye when it happened under Obama. What's with the sudden outrage now?

Picky, picky...

So, you are saying that the current regime in Honduras wasn´t allowed by America? It was in fact as America did jackshit to both stop the coup or support the legaly elected president. Nor did America nullify the votes although given the fact that there was: A lack of freedom of personal movement, freedom of association, freedom of speech and free media, which effectively makes any vote results undemocratic and null and void. America could have once again shot that down but instead they backed out entirely sabotaging the work of the OAS too.

So yes, it is IS your fault to a large degree yes!

And if there was any fairness in the UN you americans would now be FORCED to deal with them.

Btw.: Yup Obama was not innocent but the main sabotaging work was done by your republican wing of congress.

Sources:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Hond ... 7%C3%A9tat

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internati ... 7%C3%A9tat

So if America lets a country be a country it's our fault when it falls apart?

If you don't stop grasping at straws I'm putting the dispenser away.

[Azurius]

So, you are saying that the current regime in Honduras wasn´t allowed by America? It was in fact as America did jackshit to both stop the coup or support the legaly elected president. Nor did America nullify the votes although given the fact that there was: A lack of freedom of personal movement, freedom of association, freedom of speech and free media, which effectively makes any vote results undemocratic and null and void. America could have once again shot that down but instead they backed out entirely sabotaging the work of the OAS too.

So yes, it is IS your fault to a large degree yes!

And if there was any fairness in the UN you americans would now be FORCED to deal with them.

Btw.: Yup Obama was not innocent but the main sabotaging work was done by your republican wing of congress.

Sources:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Hond ... 7%C3%A9tat

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internati ... 7%C3%A9tat

> Sees both sources are Wikipedia
> Laughs

Sees a far-right statement(Wikipedia = LIE PRESS lmao) and laughs

[Len Hyet]

America: interferes in other countries political processes
World: "America WTF you can't play world police stop meddling!"

America: doesn't interfere in other countries political processes
World: "America WTF you have to interfere why aren't you interfering BE THE WORLD POLICE!"

Nah, thanks. Not our problem if some third world country experiences a coup. Damn shame, but not our problem anymore.

When America is the cause that a country collapses, and does nothing about it, or does a shammy job at it, it is our fault.

Uh, America didn't cause the Honduran coup. We had diddly to do with it.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Neither of those establish them as "concentration camps".

Today’s US detention centers, she says, fit the original concept of a concentration camp: Children are being detained not because they are guilty of a crime, but as a strategy to terrify immigrant parents considering crossing the US-Mexico border illegally. (“It could be a tough deterrent—would be a tough deterrent. A much faster turnaround on asylum seekers, ” White House chief of staff John Kelly told NPR in May.)

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44518942

"One cage had 20 children inside. Scattered about are bottles of water, bags of chips [crisps] and large foil sheets intended to serve as blankets," the Associated Press reports.

But Anne Chandler, who's running a non-profit project for migrant children found on the southern US border, told Texas Monthly she had heard stories of "kids that are very young, that are breastfeeding babies and under three in the shelters, separated from their parents".

The head of the Tahirih Justice Centre in Houston said she had seen cases where parents had not been told ahead of time that their child was being taken away, and instead were told by immigration officers that their child required a bath, only to not be returned.

"I was talking to one mother, and she said, "Don't take my child away," and the child started screaming and vomiting and crying hysterically, and she asked the officers, "Can I at least have five minutes to console her?" They said no," Ms Chandler told the magazine.

A rights worker who visited the Ursula facility at the weekend told the Associated Press she had spoken to a 16-year-old girl who was left in charge of an unaccompanied toddler for three days and tasked with changing the child's nappies.

"She had to teach other kids in the cell to change her diaper," Michelle Brane, from the Women's Refugee Commission, said. The girl - who was four years old - was later reunited with her aunt, but the process took time because she did not speak Spanish but a language indigenous to Guatemala, the agency reports.

"She was so traumatised that she wasn't talking," Ms Brane said, describing the girl. "She was just curled up in a little ball."

She is not alone in voicing concerns over the long-term effects of separating adults and their children.

The American Academy of Pediatrics warned last week that "highly stressful experiences, including family separation, can cause irreparable harm to lifelong development by disrupting a child's brain architecture".

Separately, authorities have announced plans to erect tent cities that will hold hundreds more children in the Texas desert where temperatures regularly reach 40C (105F).

Local lawmaker Jose Rodriguez described the plan as "totally inhumane" and "outrageous", adding: "It should be condemned by anyone who has a moral sense of responsibility."

And people wonder why I'm so unpatriotic...

[El-Amin Caliphate]

When America is the cause that a country collapses, and does nothing about it, or does a shammy job at it, it is our fault.

Uh, America didn't cause the Honduran coup. We had diddly to do with it.

I wasn't talking about that.

[Azurius]

So, you are saying that the current regime in Honduras wasn´t allowed by America? It was in fact as America did jackshit to both stop the coup or support the legaly elected president. Nor did America nullify the votes although given the fact that there was: A lack of freedom of personal movement, freedom of association, freedom of speech and free media, which effectively makes any vote results undemocratic and null and void. America could have once again shot that down but instead they backed out entirely sabotaging the work of the OAS too.

So yes, it is IS your fault to a large degree yes!

And if there was any fairness in the UN you americans would now be FORCED to deal with them.

Btw.: Yup Obama was not innocent but the main sabotaging work was done by your republican wing of congress.

Sources:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Hond ... 7%C3%A9tat

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internati ... 7%C3%A9tat

So if America lets a country be a country it's our fault when it falls apart?

If you don't stop grasping at straws I'm putting the dispenser away.

So supporting a coup and voting for it and sabotaging work of the OAS and Europe is doing nothing and letting a country be a country?

Okay, I think it is time the rest of the world ganged up to "let america be a country too" wouldn´t that sound nice to you?

[Len Hyet]

Uh, America didn't cause the Honduran coup. We had diddly to do with it.

I wasn't talking about that.

Well, everyone else was.

[Uxupox]

America: interferes in other countries political processes
World: "America WTF you can't play world police stop meddling!"

America: doesn't interfere in other countries political processes
World: "America WTF you have to interfere why aren't you interfering BE THE WORLD POLICE!"

Nah, thanks. Not our problem if some third world country experiences a coup. Damn shame, but not our problem anymore.

When America is the cause that a country collapses, and does nothing about it, or does a shammy job at it, it is our fault.

The United States did not invade, fund or do something even remotely in occurrence to cause the complete take over the government by the Honduran military.

so because the United States did absolutely nothing it's their fault? what?

You know that you are obliged by international war to not recognize rogue states/dictatorships?

Also nice try to talk your way out with a totaly nonsensical oxymoron.

However from my side: Yes actually, i´d find it better if America did NOTHING and also absolutely 100% of the time too because usualy when america meddles, it only makes things worse.

Oh P.S. You did something, wrong too again in this example Lmao. You recognized this rogue regime, that was pretty much the only action you took.

Once again I had prefered if you had done nothing in this case and hence at least have given Europe and the OAS a chance to fix that mess.

Obligated by whom? What law? What clause?

How did the United States stop the OAS or the Europeans from fixing the Honduran mess? How did the United States cause the coup? Are you telling me that since the United States did nothing it was their fault that the country somehow collapsed?

[Harelia]

Now you know how we feel.

Who's "we"?

The people you keep generalizing.

Because it's totally our fault that people are dragging their children across the border and getting caught.

"Your parents made me do this," cries the concentration camp guard as he locks literal toddlers in cages and turns a blind eye to the sexual abuse committed by his fellow guards.

Yeah, very compelling argument. Nothing childish and irresponsible about it.

I like to think our immigration laws are pretty simple and to the point.

http://static.openlawlab.com/uploads/2011/10/IMmigration-Law-Comic-Terry-Colon-Reason.jpg

Besides, you folks didn't bat an eye when it happened under Obama.

Fuck Obama and fuck your lazy, shitty ass deflection. What else have you got?

What do you want us to do? Let them go zooming off wherever they please and not feed and care for them?

Also that source shows absolutely no fact and is but a biased interpretation, not subject as valid. Try again.

As for that last bit? I'm not going to tell you again.

Calm down.