Thousands of Hondurans heading toward the US

[Azurius]

When America is the cause that a country collapses, and does nothing about it, or does a shammy job at it, it is our fault.

Uh, America didn't cause the Honduran coup. We had diddly to do with it.

According to official sources you did 3 things here:

1: Legitimize a undemocratic vote.

2: Legitimize a rogue/dictatorial government.

3: You sabotaged the work of the OAS.

How can you say you did nothing in face of these actions in your recent past?

[Liriena]

"Your parents made me do this," cries the concentration camp guard as he locks literal toddlers in cages and turns a blind eye to the sexual abuse committed by his fellow guards.

Yeah, very compelling argument. Nothing childish and irresponsible about it.


http://static.openlawlab.com/uploads/2011/10/IMmigration-Law-Comic-Terry-Colon-Reason.jpg


Fuck Obama and fuck your lazy, shitty ass deflection. What else have you got?

You keep making these claims, that I assume are at least based on some case that happened but still would not represent the entirety of the system. Implying all guards of these facilities sexually abuse the children or turn a blind eye to abuse. That is simply ridiculous.

It doesn't have to be all guards, much like it doesn't have to be all Catholic priests. If there's a pattern, there's an institutional problem.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/while ... xual-abuse
http://aldianews.com/articles/politics/ ... ters/53536

[Renolia]

> Sees both sources are Wikipedia
> Laughs

To be honest wiki sources are fine so long as they're sourced accurately. Don't know about those two link though.

Honestly even when sourced correctly, the sources they use aren't always reliable. Plus oftentimes people will simply say something like: "look at the WIkipedia article" but not refer me to any particular section. Refer me to the actual source that you are getting your information from so I can make real judgements.

[Kaggeceria]

Walking hundreds of miles through two entire countries doesn't reek of separation. Seems more like pickiness. If they can afford to be picky then I doubt their desparation.

Doubt whatever you want, doesn't make any difference. No law says "You must be at least this desperate to be granted asylum".

Yes, but we still have actual requirements for asylum, and their lack of separation makes me think many won't qualify.

I'm sure they can build barriers and things like that. But no. I want them to assist the Border Patrol who will likely be swamped under the weight of over 10,000 of these entitled idiots.

CBP has 45,600 sworn agents and officers.

And there's over 10,000 "migrants". They could use help.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Who's "we"?

The people you keep generalizing.

Liri hasn't generalized anyone.

[Harelia]

So if America lets a country be a country it's our fault when it falls apart?

If you don't stop grasping at straws I'm putting the dispenser away.

So supporting a coup and voting for it and sabotaging work of the OAS and Europe is doing nothing and letting a country be a country?

Okay, I think it is time the rest of the world ganged up to "let america be a country too" wouldn´t that sound nice to you?

Would you like to actually prove that first?

[Kaggeceria]

Yes I am Canadian. The USA really needs a better immigration system. Hopefully the military will be able to stop this horde at the border and turn them back.

>horde

Oh hey, more emotive language intended to dehumanise.

10,000 certainly seems like a horde, yes.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

"migrants"

Why's this in quotes?

[Azurius]

When America is the cause that a country collapses, and does nothing about it, or does a shammy job at it, it is our fault.

The United States did not invade, fund or do something even remotely in occurrence to cause the complete take over the government by the Honduran military.

You know that you are obliged by international war to not recognize rogue states/dictatorships?

Also nice try to talk your way out with a totaly nonsensical oxymoron.

However from my side: Yes actually, i´d find it better if America did NOTHING and also absolutely 100% of the time too because usualy when america meddles, it only makes things worse.

Oh P.S. You did something, wrong too again in this example Lmao. You recognized this rogue regime, that was pretty much the only action you took.

Once again I had prefered if you had done nothing in this case and hence at least have given Europe and the OAS a chance to fix that mess.

Obligated by whom? What law? What clause?

How did the United States stop the OAS or the Europeans from fixing the Honduran mess? How did the United States cause the coup? Are you telling me that since the United States did nothing it was their fault that the country somehow collapsed?

You are now deliberately starting to ignore words and comments I gave that you obviously don´t like lmao.

I will REPEAT myself again:

1: Your vote was cast in a way to force the OAS to vote the same automaticaly. That´s sabotage in my book.

2: Your republican congress furthered that sabotage by denying entry of international observers for human rights to ensure proper voting protocols. This is btw. actualy against international law, though it would seem maybe America has a shady privilige here over other nations once more.

3: I´m getting tired of repeating things.

[Harelia]

The people you keep generalizing.

Liri hasn't generalized anyone.

That detention guard sure seems generalized, for starters.

[Kaggeceria]

Gaggle of peeved soon to be rejected asylum seekers on cannonball run towards us border.

New thread title.

It'll take ages for their asylum requests to be processed.

And what do they do in the meantime?

[Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio]

Why is everyone more concerned about red tape than actually helping people who have a lower quality of life when it is not even their fault?

[Neutraligon]

When America is the cause that a country collapses, and does nothing about it, or does a shammy job at it, it is our fault.

The United States did not invade, fund or do something even remotely in occurrence to cause the complete take over the government by the Honduran military.

You know that you are obliged by international war to not recognize rogue states/dictatorships?

Also nice try to talk your way out with a totaly nonsensical oxymoron.

However from my side: Yes actually, i´d find it better if America did NOTHING and also absolutely 100% of the time too because usualy when america meddles, it only makes things worse.

Oh P.S. You did something, wrong too again in this example Lmao. You recognized this rogue regime, that was pretty much the only action you took.

Once again I had prefered if you had done nothing in this case and hence at least have given Europe and the OAS a chance to fix that mess.

Obligated by whom? What law? What clause?

How did the United States stop the OAS or the Europeans from fixing the Honduran mess? How did the United States cause the coup? Are you telling me that since the United States did nothing it was their fault that the country somehow collapsed?

According to the wiki the Hillary Clinton State Department tried and succeeded in stalling the reinstatement of the president. http://cepr.net/blogs/the-americas-blog ... d-honduras

[Kaggeceria]

"migrants"

Why's this in quotes?

Cause I'm willing to bet that many of them are going to either not qualify for asylum or cross the border illegally.

[Renolia]

Liri hasn't generalized anyone.

That detention guard sure seems generalized, for starters.

Yes this.

[Harelia]

Why is everyone more concerned about red tape than actually helping people who have a lower quality of life when it is not even their fault?

Because it's not our job to help those people.

[Kaggeceria]

Why is everyone more concerned about red tape than actually helping people who have a lower quality of life when it is not even their fault?

Because "fuck off, we're full."

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Why's this in quotes?

Cause I'm willing to bet that many of them are going to either not qualify for asylum or cross the border illegally.

They'd still be a migrant. Someone who moves a great distance is a migrant.

Liri hasn't generalized anyone.

That detention guard sure seems generalized, for starters.

Show me where this happened.

Why is everyone more concerned about red tape than actually helping people who have a lower quality of life when it is not even their fault?

Exactly!

[Uxupox]

The United States did not invade, fund or do something even remotely in occurrence to cause the complete take over the government by the Honduran military.



Obligated by whom? What law? What clause?

How did the United States stop the OAS or the Europeans from fixing the Honduran mess? How did the United States cause the coup? Are you telling me that since the United States did nothing it was their fault that the country somehow collapsed?

You are now deliberately starting to ignore words and comments I gave that you obviously don´t like lmao.

I will REPEAT myself again:

1: Your vote was cast in a way to force the OAS to vote the same automaticaly. That´s sabotage in my book.

2: Your republican congress furthered that sabotage by denying entry of international observers for human rights to ensure proper voting protocols. This is btw. actualy against international law, though it would seem maybe America has a shady privilige here over other nations once more.

3: I´m getting tired of repeating things.

"Following his ouster, the United States recognized President Manuel Zelaya as the only constitutional president of Honduras.[57][58][59] "We believe that the coup was not legal and that President Zelaya remains the democratically elected president there", Obama said.[60] Although U.S. officials characterized the events as a coup, suspended joint military operations[61] and all non-emergency, non-immigrant visas,[62][63] and cut off certain non-humanitarian aid to Honduras,[64][65] they held back from formally designating Zelaya's ouster as a "military coup", which would have required them to cut off almost all aid to Honduras.[66][67][68] The Obama Administration's attempts to pressure Honduras into reversing the ouster of Zelaya were influenced by Republican minority party efforts to reach out to and advocate on behalf of the Micheletti government and defend the actions taken against Zelaya.[69][70][71] In August 2009 the Law Library of Congress released an official analysis of the situation and concluded that "Available sources indicate that the judicial and legislative branches applied constitutional and statutory law in the case against President Zelaya in a manner that was judged by the Honduran authorities from both branches of the government to be in accordance with the Honduran legal system. However, removal of President Zelaya from the country by the military is in direct violation of the Article 102 of the Constitution, and apparently this action is currently under investigation by the Honduran authorities.[72] After an agreement was reached between Micheletti and Zelaya, the United States signaled that it would recognize the 2009 Honduran elections, which it ultimately did, even after the framework of agreement broke down."

Where is the CIA, FBI or the NSA in this framework? Where are the intelligence agents that "supported" this coup? Where is the invasion that deposed the regime?

Honduras's regime change can only be blamed on you guessed it the Honduran military for their seizure of power. The United States did not supply the armaments, didn't give command and they had absolutely nothing to do with the coup.

[Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio]

Why is everyone more concerned about red tape than actually helping people who have a lower quality of life when it is not even their fault?

Because it's not our job to help those people.

So instead you actively try to avoid helping these people and actively try to make it more difficult for them?...

[Azurius]

To be honest wiki sources are fine so long as they're sourced accurately. Don't know about those two link though.

Honestly even when sourced correctly, the sources they use aren't always reliable. Plus oftentimes people will simply say something like: "look at the WIkipedia article" but not refer me to any particular section. Refer me to the actual source that you are getting your information from so I can make real judgements.

1: Sources are checked by a multitude of experts and teams, they are in fact more reliable then practicaly anything else as there is no single entity or group behind this here. And yet these entities and group have to fullfill higher standards then your average joe working for CNN or whatever.

2: I would literaly have to cite at least a dozen quotes, re-read the entire 2 articles again and copy and paste it all. And frankly: I won´t be bothered. Read the articles yourselves.

If not, then give me some actual sources I can read that show otherwise or frankly just hold your horses. Since so far you have given me nothing, neither a source, nor a valid argument since all your arguments so far stem either from strawmanning/leaving out things you don´t like to hear, or otherwise blame wiki as unreliable source lmao.

These are not even valid arguments, let alone sourced facts.

[Neutraligon]

Why is everyone more concerned about red tape than actually helping people who have a lower quality of life when it is not even their fault?

Because "fuck off, we're full."

I seem to recall people worrying about an aging population issue since the baby boomers are heading towards retirement/death.

[Kowani]

Why is everyone more concerned about red tape than actually helping people who have a lower quality of life when it is not even their fault?

Because it's not our job to help those people.

"Fuck you, I got mine"

[Len Hyet]

Uh, America didn't cause the Honduran coup. We had diddly to do with it.

According to official sources you did 3 things here:

1: Legitimize a undemocratic vote.

2: Legitimize a rogue/dictatorial government.

3: You sabotaged the work of the OAS.

How can you say you did nothing in face of these actions in your recent past?

Well first of all America's reaction to the coup was to "recognized [sic] President Manuel Zelaya as the only constitutional president of Honduras". Then after an agreement was reached between Zelaya and Micheletti, the US, along with pretty much the whole world except for 7 countries, recognized the 2009 elections. As for American actions to sabotage the OAS, just from reading the wikipedia article it looks more like the US, at worst, stalled action, and eventually Honduras had democratic elections again (the 2009 ones you seem so worked up over).

Seems to me like you're demonizing America for basically reacting "meh".

[Renolia]

Because it's not our job to help those people.

So instead you actively try to avoid helping these people and actively try to make it more difficult for them?...

If you read through this forum, most of us are completely okay with them going through the legal process to be admitted into the country. We just have things against those who illegally immigrate.