Right Wing Discussion Thread XIV: Join the Friendkorps

[Novus America]

The only country that could competently manage itself while shutting itself away from international capital is the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.

The DPRK is not a model than any sensible person wants to wholly emulate. Most Americans who favor nationalism or isolationism really just desire a return to the early nineteenth century with regards to trade and foreign policy - something that's wildly unfeasible at the moment.

Anyway, since market forces are the closest there is to God in reality, what if capital worship is a̪̞͈̜̯̜c̭̭̣̳̜̲͙t̸͓̹̼̞̪͈̺u̱̥͘a̼̜͚̤̕l̩͞ͅl̫̺̙̥͓̻y̜ ̝̻g͘o͎̯͚̝̞̲͈͘o͎̱̥̤̭͓d̨̼͓̣̮

Why is the current tendency in this thread to ascribe divine status to things that are not divine?

A return to the something like (obviously not identical) the mid 20th century is more feasible. Before the 70s.
Though any major trade policy change needs to be gradually phased in over several years to allow businesses to adapt, new supply chains established, etc.

Rapid changes in trade policy are generally highly destructive.

[Darussalam]

So you want to produce enough of the most necessary and strategic items at home.

Relying on trade for most of your food is a bigger problem then relying on trade to get children’s toys.

A society can exist just fine without toys, but cannot without food.

Agrarian protectionism also targets inedible products like cotton.

Why is the current tendency in this thread to ascribe divine status to things that are not divine?

It is divine, like the rest of my aesthetics. Certainly more divine than Yahweh.

[Darussalam]

The DPRK is not a model than any sensible person wants to wholly emulate. Most Americans who favor nationalism or isolationism really just desire a return to the early nineteenth century with regards to trade and foreign policy - something that's wildly unfeasible at the moment.

Ah yes, an era where borders were nearly completely open and inventions on transportation technology greatly offset the deadweight losses of high tariffs.

[Novus America]

So you want to produce enough of the most necessary and strategic items at home.

Relying on trade for most of your food is a bigger problem then relying on trade to get children’s toys.

A society can exist just fine without toys, but cannot without food.

Agrarian protectionism also targets inedible products like cotton.

Why is the current tendency in this thread to ascribe divine status to things that are not divine?

It is divine, like the rest of my aesthetics. Certainly more divine than Yahweh.

Agrarian protectionism need not be directed at all agricultural products.
Cotton though did at one point have great strategic value.
Not as much now that we have synthetic alternatives.

Things like chocolate and coffees fo example can only be competively grown in certain environments and you can live without them. A temperate country trying to apply protectionism to them will probably fail.

It only makes sense to really focus on that which you need and can competively grow for protection. You can safely import the non essentials an luxuries as even if a war or some disaster cuts them off you will not face starvation.

[Fahran]

Ah yes, an era where borders were nearly completely open and inventions on transportation technology greatly offset the deadweight losses of high tariffs.

Borders were not nearly completely open, especially not towards the later years of the nineteenth century. Multiple laws were contrived to exclude and persecute ethnic minorities and to curtail immigration - with favoritism being given the Anglos.

[Fahran]

It is divine, like the rest of my aesthetics. Certainly more divine than Yahweh.

Divinity or Godhead is the state of things that are believed to come from a supernatural power or deity, such as God, the supreme being, creator deity, or spirits, and are therefore regarded as sacred and holy.

"The concept of the supernatural encompasses anything that is inexplicable by scientific understanding of the laws of nature but nevertheless argued by believers to exist. Examples include immaterial beings such as angels, gods and spirits, and claimed human abilities like magic, telekinesis and extrasensory perception."

I don't think markets qualify as supernatural or mostly inexplicable within the context of scientific study. They're rooted in material concerns, supply and demand, and consumption. This seems to be another incarnation of the "volk as god" argument that has cropped up several times already - except this one is more rooted in economics rather than the total state or liberal political philosophy.

[Confederate States of German America]

Yes, and Progress can never be bad.

Progress is the ultimate goal of humanity, to better the collective situation. The best part of capitalism is the Marketplace of Ideas. The old ways were abandoned for a reason, they were inferior to the new ones.

Slow your role, Francis Fukuyama.

[The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord]

It is divine, like the rest of my aesthetics. Certainly more divine than Yahweh.

Divinity or Godhead is the state of things that are believed to come from a supernatural power or deity, such as God, the supreme being, creator deity, or spirits, and are therefore regarded as sacred and holy.

"The concept of the supernatural encompasses anything that is inexplicable by scientific understanding of the laws of nature but nevertheless argued by believers to exist. Examples include immaterial beings such as angels, gods and spirits, and claimed human abilities like magic, telekinesis and extrasensory perception."

I don't think markets qualify as supernatural or mostly inexplicable within the context of scientific study. They're rooted in material concerns, supply and demand, and consumption. This seems to be another incarnation of the "volk as god" argument that has cropped up several times already - except this one is more rooted in economics rather than the total state or liberal political philosophy.

I mean, the concept of “volk as god” could be the basis of a civic religion of sorts, perhaps...

[Fahran]

I mean, the concept of “volk as god” could be the basis of a civic religion of sorts, perhaps...

I'm not really a fan of civic religion. It's a set of institutions petitioning the responsibilities and powers of another institution in a cynical way. And the justification for it is usually atheistic or anti-clerical.

[Diopolis]

I mean, the concept of “volk as god” could be the basis of a civic religion of sorts, perhaps...

I'm not really a fan of civic religion. It's a set of institutions petitioning the responsibilities and powers of another institution in a cynical way. And the justification for it is usually atheistic or anti-clerical.

Which makes civic religion kind of dumb.
"Religion is stupid and destructive!"
"I know, let's invent a different, dumber one!"

[Sirocca]

If you're British, you could always begin with the House of Lords. It's well-built for corporatism and so-called philosopher kings, and some here have theorized that the High Tories, had they not been subsumed by classical liberals to an increasing degree, might have embraced a politics similar to what you proposed, albeit a touch more organic and aristocratic.

I’m an American, more specifically one from Pennsylvania.

And regarding the term “philosopher-kings”, it is merely the best term that I can find to describe my ideal form of executive branch. The lower-ranking technocrats on the executive branch’s hierarchy are more akin to Confucian/Legalist scholar-officials.

Also, the upper house of the Legislature would be arranged according to corporatist principles, as stated in my signature. It’d take a more consultative/advisory role to the lower house (of an assembly of eligible (above the age of 21) citizens chosen by lot)

Hello, fellow Pennsylvanian!

[The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord]

I’m an American, more specifically one from Pennsylvania.

And regarding the term “philosopher-kings”, it is merely the best term that I can find to describe my ideal form of executive branch. The lower-ranking technocrats on the executive branch’s hierarchy are more akin to Confucian/Legalist scholar-officials.

Also, the upper house of the Legislature would be arranged according to corporatist principles, as stated in my signature. It’d take a more consultative/advisory role to the lower house (of an assembly of eligible (above the age of 21) citizens chosen by lot)

Hello, fellow Pennsylvanian!

Wait, are you in the Western, Central, or Eastern part of the Commonwealth? Northern or Southern? I live in the Northeastern part of the state.

I'm not really a fan of civic religion. It's a set of institutions petitioning the responsibilities and powers of another institution in a cynical way. And the justification for it is usually atheistic or anti-clerical.

Which makes civic religion kind of dumb.
"Religion is stupid and destructive!"
"I know, let's invent a different, dumber one!"

Oh, I don’t find religion to be stupid and destructive; the collective and ritualistic nature of religious practice makes it quite useful for promoting the common weal, which is Good.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

I don't think markets qualify as supernatural or mostly inexplicable within the context of scientific study. They're rooted in material concerns, supply and demand, and consumption. This seems to be another incarnation of the "volk as god" argument that has cropped up several times already - except this one is more rooted in economics rather than the total state or liberal political philosophy.

I mean, the concept of “volk as god” could be the basis of a civic religion of sorts, perhaps...

"A man is not a dictator when he is given a commission from the people and carries it out."

- Huey P. Long

[Novus America]

I mean, the concept of “volk as god” could be the basis of a civic religion of sorts, perhaps...

I'm not really a fan of civic religion. It's a set of institutions petitioning the responsibilities and powers of another institution in a cynical way. And the justification for it is usually atheistic or anti-clerical.

American civic religion is not atheistic nor anti clerical.
Besides cynicism is not necessarily bad.

In a multi ethnic, religiously diverse society it provides the role of a unifying force.
People generally need some form of symbols and rituals.

The point of civic religion is to create one everyone can follow.

If you have a religiously homogeneous society it is not really needed, but is useful in a more religiously diverse one.

[Sirocca]

Hello, fellow Pennsylvanian!

Wait, are you in the Western, Central, or Eastern part of the Commonwealth? Northern or Southern? I live in the Northeastern part of the state.

(North)Western part

[Western Vale Confederacy]

Wait, are you in the Western, Central, or Eastern part of the Commonwealth? Northern or Southern? I live in the Northeastern part of the state.

(North)Western part

Fuck is with the bazillion Pennsylvanians on NSG?

[Sirocca]

(North)Western part

Fuck is with the bazillion Pennsylvanians on NSG?

The Western part is especially screwed economically up here.

[The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord]

I'm not really a fan of civic religion. It's a set of institutions petitioning the responsibilities and powers of another institution in a cynical way. And the justification for it is usually atheistic or anti-clerical.

American civic religion is not atheistic nor anti clerical.
Besides cynicism is not necessarily bad.

In a multi ethnic, religiously diverse society it provides the role of a unifying force.
People generally need some form of symbols and rituals.

The point of civic religion is to create one everyone can follow.

If you have a religiously homogeneous society it is not really needed, but is useful in a more religiously diverse one.

This is especially true when establishing a Pan-American Union of some kind, as I think would be beneficial. The core region of the “Technocratic Republic” would be the lands formerly known as the USA, Canada, and Mexico, under a largely federal system. I’m not sure if you’re all aware, but this region is rather culturally diverse, and the civic religion can provide a unifying force. The principles of said institution would be based upon Confucianism and Legalism, with the trappings of the current American civil religion.

[Kowani]

Progress is the ultimate goal of humanity, to better the collective situation. The best part of capitalism is the Marketplace of Ideas. The old ways were abandoned for a reason, they were inferior to the new ones.

Slow your role, Francis Fukuyama.

Who?

[The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord]

Fuck is with the bazillion Pennsylvanians on NSG?

The Western part is especially screwed economically up here.

So is the northeastern part. I personally consider NEPA to be a failed state, and at least in Hell the roads are paved.

[Sirocca]

American civic religion is not atheistic nor anti clerical.
Besides cynicism is not necessarily bad.

In a multi ethnic, religiously diverse society it provides the role of a unifying force.
People generally need some form of symbols and rituals.

The point of civic religion is to create one everyone can follow.

If you have a religiously homogeneous society it is not really needed, but is useful in a more religiously diverse one.

This is especially true when establishing a Pan-American Union of some kind, as I think would be beneficial. The core region of the “Technocratic Republic” would be the lands formerly known as the USA, Canada, and Mexico, under a largely federal system. I’m not sure if you’re all aware, but this region is rather culturally diverse, and the civic religion can provide a unifying force. The principles of said institution would be based upon Confucianism and Legalism, with the trappings of the current American civil religion.

I don't know, the goal of most American Conservatives is to preserve the US as is rather than necessarily aspiring to take on building an even larger union.

[The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord]

This is especially true when establishing a Pan-American Union of some kind, as I think would be beneficial. The core region of the “Technocratic Republic” would be the lands formerly known as the USA, Canada, and Mexico, under a largely federal system. I’m not sure if you’re all aware, but this region is rather culturally diverse, and the civic religion can provide a unifying force. The principles of said institution would be based upon Confucianism and Legalism, with the trappings of the current American civil religion.

I don't know, the goal of most American Conservatives is to preserve the US as is rather than necessarily aspiring to take on building an even larger union.

I’m not a Conservative, and certainly not the American flavor of it.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

This is especially true when establishing a Pan-American Union of some kind, as I think would be beneficial. The core region of the “Technocratic Republic” would be the lands formerly known as the USA, Canada, and Mexico, under a largely federal system. I’m not sure if you’re all aware, but this region is rather culturally diverse, and the civic religion can provide a unifying force. The principles of said institution would be based upon Confucianism and Legalism, with the trappings of the current American civil religion.

I don't know, the goal of most American Conservatives is to preserve the US as is rather than necessarily aspiring to take on building an even larger union.

A League of American States would be a political wet dream of mine.

From Alert to the Tierra del Fuego.

[Novus America]

American civic religion is not atheistic nor anti clerical.
Besides cynicism is not necessarily bad.

In a multi ethnic, religiously diverse society it provides the role of a unifying force.
People generally need some form of symbols and rituals.

The point of civic religion is to create one everyone can follow.

If you have a religiously homogeneous society it is not really needed, but is useful in a more religiously diverse one.

This is especially true when establishing a Pan-American Union of some kind, as I think would be beneficial. The core region of the “Technocratic Republic” would be the lands formerly known as the USA, Canada, and Mexico, under a largely federal system. I’m not sure if you’re all aware, but this region is rather culturally diverse, and the civic religion can provide a unifying force. The principles of said institution would be based upon Confucianism and Legalism, with the trappings of the current American civil religion.

Nearly all of North America speaks English, Spanish or French.
We all use the Latin Alphabet. Our culture is predominantly European with other influences.
The majority are Christian. So while diverse it is much less so than other places that are one country. We are less linguistically diverse than India for example.

But sure North America is still diverse. But I do not think too radical change is needed, and I am not sure legalism and Confucianism a great fit for us.

[Novus America]

This is especially true when establishing a Pan-American Union of some kind, as I think would be beneficial. The core region of the “Technocratic Republic” would be the lands formerly known as the USA, Canada, and Mexico, under a largely federal system. I’m not sure if you’re all aware, but this region is rather culturally diverse, and the civic religion can provide a unifying force. The principles of said institution would be based upon Confucianism and Legalism, with the trappings of the current American civil religion.

I don't know, the goal of most American Conservatives is to preserve the US as is rather than necessarily aspiring to take on building an even larger union.

Depends. Reagan wanted a North American Union.

Sure the white separatists types would not be in favor of course.

Even within “conservatism” there is quite a lot of variations.

Simple fact is that we will be hard pressed to stay the number one economic and military power at our current size.