Right Wing Discussion Thread XIV: Join the Friendkorps

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

That is because anyone can come up with a religion and declare xyz as holy. Also, gender dysphoria is real and by no way comparable to relgion. Unless you can show me the ICD number of being religious, it's on the same level as an ideology and can be ridiculed.

Religious people don't think our religion is an ideology. We view it as a fundimental characteristic. No, you can't just "come up" with a religion. It is incredibly obtuse, though sadly not uncommon, to compare millennia old religions to deserving the same low respect as a hypothetical new one. My religion transcends thousands of years and has permeated itself throughout many global cultures, contributing more and longer to the human experience than postmodernist gender views, yet the former is incessantly, in your own words, ridiculed, while the latter is protected by the force of moderation.

If you don't view religion as an ideology, then you are wrong. An ideology is a set of political beliefs and values. A religion is a set of beliefs and values regarding a creator or controller of the universe. The latter is inevitably going to cover the former at least in part. A religious identity, while usually integral to a person's being, is not an immutable identity. It is a set of beliefs which can be discarded, adopted, criticized and ridiculed in the exact same manner as a political ideology can.

[Kowani]

And this proves that the non-Abrahamic faiths are illegitimate how? I mean, I agree with you that religion and the past has an influence on today, I’m Spanish, after all. We say “Jesús” after someone sneezes, ffs. But that wasn’t what I was arguing.

Oh, this was attached to that broader argument. I misunderstood the point. From an Abrahamic perspective, other religions are illegitimate because they're based on false premises and conclusions. It's not really that uncommon for a particular religion to hold that all other religions are false and that their followers will have bad things happen to them for one reason or another.

And from any other religion’s perspective, the same applies. But that wasn’t what he was arguing either-the argument was that the Abraham’s religions were true because most countries in the world have them, and taking credit for things that predate said religions, or happened to coincide with them. I mean, crediting Christianity with military use of gunpowder on a mass scale seems a little disingenuous.

[Fahran]

When your 2500 year old religion has developed numerous philosophical theories ranging from atomism to deconstructionism, but it's all undone because someone in the 21st century essentially learned to say “No u.”

"No u" is the pinnacle of argumentation, Rei. It is the absolute refutation of all philosophies and belief systems that have hitherto been dominant and held sway. It is nihilism for those who detest loftiness and gravity and tedium.

[Genivaria]

On Galactic Liberal Democracy's note about worshipping weird looking things as gods, whilst they're not worshipped as gods per se I would like to point out that Christians revere angels that look like this. There's a reason angels in the Bible generally begin introducing themselves to humans by saying "be not afraid."

Yeah I've seen those before. When you think about the early depictions of god were treated very much like Cthulhu as far as the 'cannot comprehend' and 'you'd be driven mad/annihilated of you saw their true form.' bit goes.

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

Ignoring the fact that a religion isn’t the source of either democracy or science, there was this wonderful thing called imperialism and colonialism that wiped out a lot of other religions. Perhaps you’v heard of it?
Additionally, Japan, which is not a weak country has Shintoism, and China still has Taoism, although not as prevalent.

Japan grew strong because they turned into a militarist cult and then the Americans helped them after WW2. Its traditions largely walled it off from the rest of the world until the West came. China’s government is against traditional beliefs in their country, like Taoism and has adopted more atheist ideas.

[The South Falls]

A certain religion is not the builder of nation though.

Depends on the nation really.

A theocracy is the only sort of nation where a religion has a direct hand in it's construction.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

America could really use a Confucian state religion, I recommend something similar to the kōgaku. Build shrines to the Founding Fathers as culture creating sages who originally laid down the Way in the United States. Have college courses to educate students in the Analects. Get rid of those lousy t-shirts and wear something more respectable like court dress. Expel the Trump family because they've lost the Mandate of Heaven.

Is there something you're forgetting about? It starts with F and rhymes with "thirst amendment."

[Hanafuridake]

When your 2500 year old religion has developed numerous philosophical theories ranging from atomism to deconstructionism, but it's all undone because someone in the 21st century essentially learned to say “No u.”

"No u" is the pinnacle of argumentation, Rei. It is the absolute refutation of all philosophies and belief systems that have hitherto been dominant and held sway. It is nihilism for those who detest loftiness and gravity and tedium.

As she reflected on her rejection, desire for vindication drove out all compassion, and she fondly imagined “all NSG” devastated by the shitposters, and her enemies prostrate before her, crying “Reikoku-gobo, save us!” But the high priests of RWDT would fall into hell, like TEM, through their inability to complete the phrase “Namu Reikoku Shonin" (Adoration to St Rei).

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

Is there something you're forgetting about? It starts with F and rhymes with "thirst amendment."

First Amendment has Western bias and is bad.

[Fahran]

And from any other religion’s perspective, the same applies. But that wasn’t what he was arguing either-the argument was that the Abraham’s religions were true because most countries in the world have them, and taking credit for things that predate said religions, or happened to coincide with them. I mean, crediting Christianity with military use of gunpowder on a mass scale seems a little disingenuous.

It was an argument about sociological function more so than truth then. He ought to have divorced the two rather than letting them bleed together. Christianity and Islam are the cornerstones or foundations of a good many societies - even those societies that have, little by little, forgotten the concrete they poured before constructing their house. A lot of our American principles about secularism for instance can be traced to the Thirty Years War, the Reformation, the Counter-Reformation, and the broader religious mess of Europe in the early modern period. I think it's important not to underestimate the extent to which religion has influenced the course of societies. Christianity is as essential to us as Buddhism is to China or Hinduism is to India. That's not an argument for theocracy, but it does bear consideration when we're discussing sociology.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Is there something you're forgetting about? It starts with F and rhymes with "thirst amendment."

First Amendment has Western bias and is bad.

Shut the fuck up, Amerikkkan.

[The South Falls]

When your 2500 year old religion has developed numerous philosophical theories ranging from atomism to deconstructionism, but it's all undone because someone in the 21st century essentially learned to say “No u.”

"No u" is the pinnacle of argumentation, Rei. It is the absolute refutation of all philosophies and belief systems that have hitherto been dominant and held sway. It is nihilism for those who detest loftiness and gravity and tedium.

No u is the apogee of debate. For example, you have spent some time on your post. Now I can tear it down with a mere expression.

No u.

It's efficient, simple, and pure. Something for truly every aspiring debater.

[Kowani]

Pfffffftttt okay first of all.
How the fuck are Abrahamic religions the "source of democracy and science" ???
Democracy and natural philosophy both existed long before Abrahamics came on the scene.

The Jews made important contributions to humanity and religion. Much of Western civilization was built on their ideas. Atheism and Abrahamic religions have been the primary sources of change in recent years. Non-religious and religious people in the West have added to concepts like democracy and made lots of things. They have been strong enough to beat non-Abrahamic religions throughout most of the world. Atheists have probably done the most in the West than any other non-Abramic religious belief. Aside from that, it’s all been Abrahmic religion. Feudalism did a lot a long time ago, but modern systems have done more in more recent years. The logic follows likewise.

So, Democracy predates Christianity, gunpowder isn’t a western invention, the Americas were sparsely populated and had a major disadvantage in the lack of large animals to tame, and diseases that come with them, etc. That is why Christianity spread so far-technology and disease.
But. Very few of those things that you tried to take credit for were done not because they were Christian, which is where you seem to hit a stumbling block.

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

On Galactic Liberal Democracy's note about worshipping weird looking things as gods, whilst they're not worshipped as gods per se I would like to point out that Christians revere angels that look like this. There's a reason angels in the Bible generally begin introducing themselves to humans by saying "be not afraid."

Angels still aren’t the same as God and are less important.

[The South Falls]

Is there something you're forgetting about? It starts with F and rhymes with "thirst amendment."

First Amendment has Western bias and is bad.

Well, I'm an organization akin to your governing body. Shut the fuck up before I force you into prolonged incarceration.

[Fahran]

As she reflected on her rejection, desire for vindication drove out all compassion, and she fondly imagined “all NSG” devastated by the shitposters, and her enemies prostrate before her, crying “Reikoku-gobo, save us!” But the high priests of RWDT would fall into hell, like TEM, through their inability to complete the phrase “Namu Reikoku Shonin" (Adoration to St Rei).

I approve.

[Hanafuridake]

Is there something you're forgetting about? It starts with F and rhymes with "thirst amendment."

First Amendment has Western bias and is bad.

Since your only argument has been “it's Eastern” and “it's weird” I won't allow you to project your ignorance and lack of nuance onto me. My thinking is not as shallow as yours.

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

So, Democracy predates Christianity, gunpowder isn’t a western invention, the Americas were sparsely populated and had a major disadvantage in the lack of large animals to tame, and diseases that come with them, etc. That is why Christianity spread so far-technology and disease.
But. Very few of those things that you tried to take credit for were done not because they were Christian, which is where you seem to hit a stumbling block.

I never said Christianity was the only good religion. Judaism and Islam still exist. And while China may have been ahead for a bit, but outdated beliefs pulled them behind of the West. The Jews achieved a lot considering there were many more who didn’t agree with them at all.

[Genivaria]

A certain religion is not the builder of nation though.

Depends on the nation really.

One could argue that Christianity did play a key role in building the nation of Russia as we see it today, merely because it was Vladimir the Great who led the conversion of the Kievan Rus after being impressed by the majesty of Constantinople and shunning the Islamic taboo on alcohol.
Of course as I'm sure most would agree a ruler forcing his people to convert isn't really any kind of argument for the validity of a religion except from a legal point of view.

[Gran Virginia]

The Jews made important contributions to humanity and religion. Much of Western civilization was built on their ideas. Atheism and Abrahamic religions have been the primary sources of change in recent years. Non-religious and religious people in the West have added to concepts like democracy and made lots of things. They have been strong enough to beat non-Abrahamic religions throughout most of the world. Atheists have probably done the most in the West than any other non-Abramic religious belief. Aside from that, it’s all been Abrahmic religion. Feudalism did a lot a long time ago, but modern systems have done more in more recent years. The logic follows likewise.

So, Democracy predates Christianity, gunpowder isn’t a western invention, the Americas were sparsely populated and had a major disadvantage in the lack of large animals to tame, and diseases that come with them, etc. That is why Christianity spread so far-technology and disease.
But. Very few of those things that you tried to take credit for were done not because they were Christian, which is where you seem to hit a stumbling block.

Christianity is the foundation of traditional liberalism and the enlightenment, which our society is based on. This is actually part of a wider issue in which enlightenment values began undermining their own foundation. Nietzsche and Dostoevsky both commented on this.

[Kowani]

So, Democracy predates Christianity, gunpowder isn’t a western invention, the Americas were sparsely populated and had a major disadvantage in the lack of large animals to tame, and diseases that come with them, etc. That is why Christianity spread so far-technology and disease.
But. Very few of those things that you tried to take credit for were done not because they were Christian, which is where you seem to hit a stumbling block.

I never said Christianity was the only good religion. Judaism and Islam still exist. And while China may have been ahead for a bit, but outdated beliefs pulled them behind of the West. The Jews achieved a lot considering there were many more who didn’t agree with them at all.

Surprisingly enough, there are a lot of other historical factors that explain why the monotheistic religions got ahead that have very little to do with the intrinsic quality of said religion.

[The South Falls]

First Amendment has Western bias and is bad.

Since your only argument has been “it's Eastern” and “it's weird” I won't allow you to project your ignorance and lack of nuance onto me. My thinking is not as shallow as yours.

See, all things eastern are bad


Tea = bad

art = bad

gunpowder = bad

culture = bad

[Fahran]

One could argue that Christianity did play a key role in building the nation of Russia as we see it today, merely because it was Vladimir the Great who led the conversion of the Kievan Rus after being impressed by the majesty of Constantinople and shunning the Islamic taboo on alcohol.
Of course as I'm sure most would agree a ruler forcing his people to convert isn't really any kind of argument for the validity of a religion except from a legal point of view.

Quite a few countries owe their existence or values to particular religions or sects, but I do agree that religion having an important sociological function is not the same as religion being demonstrably true. Vladimir the Great is quite a wonderful case study on the antecedents of political theology. I really need to read Augustine, even if it compromises my position as a good Jewish girl who will marry a rabbi under a chuppah and teach Torah to my children.

[North German Realm]

I never said Christianity was the only good religion. Judaism and Islam still exist. And while China may have been ahead for a bit, but outdated beliefs pulled them behind of the West. The Jews achieved a lot considering there were many more who didn’t agree with them at all.

Surprisingly enough, there are a lot of other historical factors that explain why the monotheistic religions got ahead that have very little to do with the intrinsic quality of said religion.

There isn't "a lot of". There's only one. Military Power.

[Kowani]

So, Democracy predates Christianity, gunpowder isn’t a western invention, the Americas were sparsely populated and had a major disadvantage in the lack of large animals to tame, and diseases that come with them, etc. That is why Christianity spread so far-technology and disease.
But. Very few of those things that you tried to take credit for were done not because they were Christian, which is where you seem to hit a stumbling block.

Christianity is the foundation of traditional liberalism and the enlightenment, which our society is based on. This is actually part of a wider issue in which enlightenment values began undermining their own foundation. Nietzsche and Dostoevsky both commented on this.

Yes, but that’s not what I am arguing against. The original claim was that the achievements of the West invalidate every other non-Abrahamic religion. That is where we disagreed.