Right Wing Discussion Thread XIV: Join the Friendkorps

[Nea Byzantia]

I agree.

Imagine if the Byzantine Empire never tell? I know that's vague and heavily dependent on when the point of departure from our own timeline is, but such is alt-history.

Byzantium and Tsarist Russia are the two greatest empires in my opinion...but maybe that's just me being biased because I'm Greek and Orthodox.

Maybe a little

Although I'm a fan of Russia too, to some extent.

Russia in general, or Tsarist Russia in particular?

[Salus Maior]

Maybe a little

Although I'm a fan of Russia too, to some extent.

Russia in general, or Tsarist Russia in particular?

Tsarist Russia.

[Novus America]

Had the Russian Empire not been defeated in World War I and/or no Civil War had occurred, the 20th Century probably would've been the Russian Century.

I agree.

Imagine if the Byzantine Empire never tell? I know that's vague and heavily dependent on when the point of departure from our own timeline is, but such is alt-history.

Byzantium and Tsarist Russia are the two greatest empires in my opinion...but maybe that's just me being biased because I'm Greek and Orthodox.

As a (mostly) Catholic Pole I do not share the same opinion.
If the Russian empire gave Poland and Lithuania independence or preserved their independence it would be different.
It actually might have survived with a strong enough Poland as a buffer between it and Germany.
But it got greedy, and got death.

(One can say the same thing of Poland too).

You have to know when to stop.

The Russian Empire by the end was only about half ethnic Russian.
And treated many minorities like shit.

Its anti semitism in particular. But not just that.

If it had preserved part of Poland Lithuania as a truly independent buffer state, adopted a Federal Constitution something like Germany, but with better protection for minorities, and avoided stupid wars it lost perhaps it could have survived to become a super power.

I still have a soft spot for the Byzantine/Eastern Roman Empire though.
But as pointed out the point of departure there is much earlier and harder to imagine.

Fuck the Venetian Republic and the Fourth Crusaders though.

Actually the Catholic Church never ordered the attack on on Constantinople.
Venice got excommunicated.

Though the Pope at the time was greedy and weak.
He did not order the attack to happen but did not do enough to stop it and was more than eager to get what he could from the wreckage.
So yeah.

The 4th Crusade was totally FUBAR.

Though it was not the only thing that killed the ERE.

Also had Alexios III not been a totally useless spineless wimp, he could have defeated the crusaders.

[Valrifell]

I'm not on the side of the spectrum that relies on memes in place of personality.

Memes and trolling are today what long hair and protest songs were 50 years ago. The current counter culture using an edgy humor and entertainment to spread a subversive message against the appalled establishment.

Heck dude, look at your sig

Side note: I love that the right-wing and reactionaries know they're branding is shit and nobody would go for it, so instead of being conservative or reactionary, they're the "real" "counter-culture" and "revolutionaries". Identitarian is one such "softened" term that borrows from liberal/left-wing language.

[Valrifell]

Because it's usage is heavily linked with the alt-right, right?

Its usage is heavily linked with every motherfucker on the internet. It's "Hitler wore pants ergo pants are Nazi" tier.

See, that's the thing, tho. I've never seen a lefty-Pepe before (maybe once and only once) but regardless I assure you many more right-wing incarnations of the meme exist. As I said before, you get a mixing of the two where the right-wing aspect becomes confusingly intermixed with it, drawing people who have poor taste in humor into right-wing politics.

Spooky, I know, but memes are powerful (in spite of posts made in anger to WVC)

[Confederate States of German America]

To be honest, I'm slowly becoming in favor of legalizing lower level drugs.

[Novus America]

To be honest, I'm slowly becoming in favor of legalizing lower level drugs.

I agree.
Pot was actually legal before 1970.
Most drugs were too, even heroin could be prescribed before then.

I support limited legalization (though requiring prescriptions for most) and decriminalizing personal possession.
Also investing more in rehabilitation.

The war on drugs has not worked.

Though I am also all for massively increasing prison times for serious illegal drug dealers as well.
Serious dealers should get life in prison, no parole.

Also massively increase the minimum sentences for murder, armed robbery, burglary and rape.
25 to life first offense, life without parole or death for second.

Punish the real criminals far worse but stop the long sentences for minor, victimless crimes and focus on rehabilitation for them.

[Valrifell]

To be honest, I'm slowly becoming in favor of legalizing lower level drugs.

But why stop there? At the very least, decriminalize all drugs and encourage addicts to get help, rather than punishing them.

[Novus America]

To be honest, I'm slowly becoming in favor of legalizing lower level drugs.

But why stop there? At the very least, decriminalize all drugs and encourage addicts to get help, rather than punishing them.

Certainly decriminalize personal use and possession in favor of rehabilitation.
But if you completely legalize them your ability to force people to get help is gone, plus you are going to likely see use greatly increase and become socially acceptable.

[Valrifell]

But why stop there? At the very least, decriminalize all drugs and encourage addicts to get help, rather than punishing them.

Certainly decriminalize personal use and possession in favor of rehabilitation.
But if you completely legalize them your ability to force people to get help is gone, plus you are going to likely see use greatly increase.

I'm not sure how much "help" can be forced in the first place, but I do see the point. I just think it would be safer to ensure the quality of whatever the citizenry is consuming, this can only be done over the table, however.

[Novus America]

Certainly decriminalize personal use and possession in favor of rehabilitation.
But if you completely legalize them your ability to force people to get help is gone, plus you are going to likely see use greatly increase.

I'm not sure how much "help" can be forced in the first place, but I do see the point. I just think it would be safer to ensure the quality of whatever the citizenry is consuming, this can only be done over the table, however.

I do not want to be condoning or encouraging it though.
It should be discouraged as much as possible but addicts need treatment, not jail.

The dealers though? Fuck them. They can rot in jail.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

But why stop there? At the very least, decriminalize all drugs and encourage addicts to get help, rather than punishing them.

Certainly decriminalize personal use and possession in favor of rehabilitation.
But if you completely legalize them your ability to force people to get help is gone, plus you are going to likely see use greatly increase and become socially acceptable.

Yes, while the demand might increase, it is offset by the decrease in crime that legalization of marijuana will cause. As for hard drugs, make criminals get sober and quit while in prison, assuming they get arrested for a felony. There is no need to punish people just for putting something in their own body alone.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Its usage is heavily linked with every motherfucker on the internet. It's "Hitler wore pants ergo pants are Nazi" tier.

See, that's the thing, tho. I've never seen a lefty-Pepe before (maybe once and only once)

So you've never seen a lefty-Pepe, but you've seen one?

I just did a google search and found that, yes, lefty Pepe exists. So do other non-right-wing Pepes.

but regardless I assure you many more right-wing incarnations of the meme exist. As I said before, you get a mixing of the two where the right-wing aspect becomes confusingly intermixed with it, drawing people who have poor taste in humor into right-wing politics.

Spooky, I know, but memes are powerful (in spite of posts made in anger to WVC)

Not spooky, just the same argument as,"Metal music draws people to Satanism."

[Kowani]

See, that's the thing, tho. I've never seen a lefty-Pepe before (maybe once and only once)

So you've never seen a lefty-Pepe, but you've seen one?

I just did a google search and found that, yes, lefty Pepe exists. So do other non-right-wing Pepes.

but regardless I assure you many more right-wing incarnations of the meme exist. As I said before, you get a mixing of the two where the right-wing aspect becomes confusingly intermixed with it, drawing people who have poor taste in humor into right-wing politics.

Spooky, I know, but memes are powerful (in spite of posts made in anger to WVC)

Not spooky, just the same argument as,"Metal music draws people to Satanism."

This is made even funnier by the fact that IM’s latest hypothetical is about a rock singer named Satan God.

[Nea Byzantia]

I agree.

Imagine if the Byzantine Empire never tell? I know that's vague and heavily dependent on when the point of departure from our own timeline is, but such is alt-history.

Byzantium and Tsarist Russia are the two greatest empires in my opinion...but maybe that's just me being biased because I'm Greek and Orthodox.

As a (mostly) Catholic Pole I do not share the same opinion.
If the Russian empire gave Poland and Lithuania independence or preserved their independence it would be different.
It actually might have survived with a strong enough Poland as a buffer between it and Germany.
But it got greedy, and got death.

(One can say the same thing of Poland too).

You have to know when to stop.

The Russian Empire by the end was only about half ethnic Russian.
And treated many minorities like shit.

Its anti semitism in particular. But not just that.

If it had preserved part of Poland Lithuania as a truly independent buffer state, adopted a Federal Constitution something like Germany, but with better protection for minorities, and avoided stupid wars it lost perhaps it could have survived to become a super power.

I still have a soft spot for the Byzantine/Eastern Roman Empire though.
But as pointed out the point of departure there is much earlier and harder to imagine.

Fuck the Venetian Republic and the Fourth Crusaders though.

Actually the Catholic Church never ordered the attack on on Constantinople.
Venice got excommunicated.

Though the Pope at the time was greedy and weak.
He did not order the attack to happen but did not do enough to stop it and was more than eager to get what he could from the wreckage.
So yeah.

The 4th Crusade was totally FUBAR.

Though it was not the only thing that killed the ERE.

Also had Alexios III not been a totally useless spineless wimp, he could have defeated the crusaders.

I agree with you. Nothing you said is unreasonable. Greed is very often the reason for the downfall of great empires. This also applies to the Polish-Lithuatians too. Maybe if they had been less greedy and hadn't occupied Moscow during the Time of Troubles, the Russian Tsars that came after wouldn't have been so deadset on taking down the Poles, who they viewed as a threat.

God knows there could've evenn been a reset in relations between Russia and Poland. Sure, you had the whole Orthodoxy vs Catholicism issue, but it doesn't mean the two couldn't have mended fences, if you will. Both feared the growing spectre of the Ottomans to the South, and both were Slavic, and thus tied by blood (which makes all this even sadder, quite frankly)

I think what put the two at odds with each other, was the fact that the Papacy wanted to Catholicize Russia by hook-or-by-crook going back to the 1240s, and Poland being the nearest Catholic Power was used as a springboard in that regard. Thus Poland was seen from the Russian point of view as Papist puppets doing the Vatican's will; and when Poland invaded Russia and occupied Moscow during the Time of Troubles, this confirmed in Russia's mind, their suspicions of Poland. Poland was not to be trusted and needed to be brought to heel for the Tsars to feel secure (and God knows how much the Russians prioritize security; hardly surprising or unjustified, given their history)

I'm not saying any of this to bash Poland, I'm just trying to defend the Russian point of view as best I can. As I said earlier, I'm somewhat biased in this direction, being Greek and Orthodox.

The Russians were always there to help Greece, both back in the Byzantine days (the Varangian Guard was mostly comprised of Rus warriors, at least initially), and in more modern times (many Greeks took shelter in Russia during the Dark Times of the Ottoman Occupation, and the Russians were very kind hosts; also plenty of Russian volunteers came in the 1820s to help the oppressed Greeks fight the Ottoman Empire for our Independent). Our peoples have a very long and storied history together; of helping each other out, and backing each other up.

[Darussalam]

lmao cringe

I'm not on the side of the spectrum that relies on memes in place of personality.

That would imply the presence of personality in the first place.

[Fahran]

The "ok sign = white power" meme is representative of a broader mode of the alt-right appropriating Internet culture to hide themselves under the "it's just a joke, braah" defense and artificially increase the appearance of their numbers while also transforming it into the gateway to alt-right neo-fascism.

Pepe the Frog is not your friend.

Giving away cultural symbols and hand gestures doesn't really fix the problem though. Every time the left and establishment right, both are pretty liberal in most places if we're being honest, overreact, it gives the impression of paranoia, silliness, and flat-out bad will, especially when they accuse people with nothing to do with the alt-right of harboring racist sentiments. Trump making an OK sign isn't white supremacy for instance. Temper and presentation are important strategies here.

[Sirocca]

I want to talk about a topic:
How do conservatives (also right-libertarians in the US) deal with being loners in mainstream culture?
In that way, being right just sucks. I hate to admit that.

[Sirocca]

Am I missing a layer to the Simon and Garfunkel reference?

(I mean aside from The Boxer being the obviously superior song and At The Zoo lending itself better to subversive messages, e.g. "you can take a crosstown bus if it's raining or it's cold/and the animals will love it if you do" or "the zookeeper is very fond of rum".)

Simon and Garfunkel were considered subversive singers during the counter culture of the 60's and 70's. Not as radical as say Hendrix or Ozzy, but dissident nonetheless

Don't forget the movie "The Graduate" around that era.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

I want to talk about a topic:
How do conservatives (also right-libertarians in the US) deal with being loners in mainstream culture?
In that way, being right just sucks. I hate to admit that.

I feel ya. I'm an Islamist going to a school with mostly liberals who'd probs get as freaked out by my beliefs and some do here (though I think it'd be easier to explain some of my beliefs in person).

[Washington Resistance Army]

I want to talk about a topic:
How do conservatives (also right-libertarians in the US) deal with being loners in mainstream culture?
In that way, being right just sucks. I hate to admit that.

I feel ya. I'm an Islamist going to a school with mostly liberals who'd probs get as freaked out by my beliefs and some do here (though I think it'd be easier to explain some of my beliefs in person).

Supporting slavery does tend to freak people out, yes.

[Valrifell]

but regardless I assure you many more right-wing incarnations of the meme exist. As I said before, you get a mixing of the two where the right-wing aspect becomes confusingly intermixed with it, drawing people who have poor taste in humor into right-wing politics.

Spooky, I know, but memes are powerful (in spite of posts made in anger to WVC)

Not spooky, just the same argument as,"Metal music draws people to Satanism."

It's more nuanced than that, I think, but I will take this to re-evaluate my position.

Pepe the Frog is still a shit tier meme adopted by the alt-right as a de-facto mascot, though. Regardless of other uses, I don't think that context can exactly just be handwaved.

[Valrifell]

I want to talk about a topic:
How do conservatives (also right-libertarians in the US) deal with being loners in mainstream culture?
In that way, being right just sucks. I hate to admit that.

You're not outside of the mainstream culture, though? Unless you're neo-fascist you're well within the overton window, just maybe not in certain circles.

[The Liberated Territories]

the best thing is that I don't have to hide my powerlevel unlike the white nationalists do.

[Sirocca]

I want to talk about a topic:
How do conservatives (also right-libertarians in the US) deal with being loners in mainstream culture?
In that way, being right just sucks. I hate to admit that.

You're not outside of the mainstream culture, though? Unless you're neo-fascist you're well within the overton window, just maybe not in certain circles.

In the circles that have more of a cultural influence like the media outlets, Hollywood and entertainment, and academic institutions, maybe. Trump isn't really a neo-fascist but those same institutions are the ones (about 95% of them anyway) who are slamming him like he is a new Hitler or some horrible monster.

And just because an idea or opinion is "far left" or "far right", that itself doesn't determine the validity of an idea or policy.