Is the US a Christian nation?

[The Archregimancy]

If we were then the U.S. constitution would at least mention Christianity it its preamble or elsewhere in the text. It does not, so we are not a christian nation.

There are 4,543 words in the text of the Constitution and not a single one of them is GOD.

That's not an automatic disqualifier.

God isn't mentioned in the Book of Esther or the Song of Songs, either; both of them are in the Bible, and are generally considered religious texts.


Not that this should be taken as support of the OP's premise; I'm merely noting a flaw in this specific argument.

[Fahran]

It depends on what precisely you mean. The government, laws, and broader political institutions of the United States are not predicated on or adherent to Christian theological principles. However, Christianity, especially Protestantism, has been deeply influential in shaping our institutions and our public discourse throughout the centuries, even playing a significant role in our emergence as a society distinct from that of Great Britain.

One of the earliest documents in favor of liberty in the colonies came with Roger Williams's "A Plea for Religious Liberty", which presented a compelling Christian case for religious liberty and freedom of conscience. The objective of many of the ministers, theologians, and philosophers who championed such arguments was not to let people do whatever they wanted but rather to create a more perfect Christian society. The basic premise was that the state had no basis for interfering in an individual's personal relationship with G-d and that such interference often degraded the authenticity and directness of the aforementioned relationship.

Some might contend that these early musings had no definitive impact on the mindset of our Founding Fathers, but this to seems a dubious claim in light of the fact that many of them appear to have been pious and devout men who regularly attended church and that the Continental Congress hosted a prayer before convening on several occasions, including this one. While it's true that the Constitution expressly forbids the government from establishing a national church and mandates the separation of church and state, neither of these ideas intrinsically preclude the United States from being a Christian nation. Why? Because the state and the nation are not synonymous.

The state is an institution, often subservient to government, that organizes a swath of territory and/or a particular community under said government and that imposes the laws and edicts of that government over the aforementioned territory and/or community. The nation is "a stable community of people, formed on the basis of a common language, territory, economic life, ethnicity, or psychological make-up manifested in a common culture." The Constitution established our government and state as secular, but did not and could not in accordance with its own logic impose secularism on the community which that government and state served.

We see lots of indications of that to this day. Those cute calendars you can buy at the mall do not have Hanukkah, Yom Kippur, Purim, Ramadan, or Diwali demarcated and emphasized. They are more prone to revel in Christmas or Easter. And that's just one example. Seventy five percent of Americans are Christians according to a Gallup poll. We have had only two religiously nondenominational presidents, Thomas Jefferson and Andrew Johnson, with the former at least accommodating the Christian culture of his time. The rest have been Christians of varying stripes. Here is a source from Pew confirming the same.

In short, America is a highly inclusive Christian nation with a secular government and state.

[Vassenor]

Why should it be?

Because Judeo-Christian cultural ethics are the most effective manner of sustaining a social order that can take advantage of the boons capitalism and federalism/democracy create.

I'm still libertarian enough not to swing completely against the individual freedom to choose judeo-christian cultural ethics. Hence... opposition to legislative fiat.

And what makes them the most effective?

[Arasi Luvasa]

It depends on what precisely you mean. The government, laws, and broader political institutions of the United States are not predicated on or adherent to Christian theological principles. However, Christianity, especially Protestantism, has been deeply influential in shaping our institutions and our public discourse throughout the centuries, even playing a significant role in our emergence as a society distinct from that of Great Britain.

One of the earliest documents in favor of liberty in the colonies came with Roger Williams's "A Plea for Religious Liberty", which presented a compelling Christian case for religious liberty and freedom of conscience. The objective of many of the ministers, theologians, and philosophers who championed such arguments was not to let people do whatever they wanted but rather to create a more perfect Christian society. The basic premise was that the state had no basis for interfering in an individual's personal relationship with G-d and that such interference often degraded the authenticity and directness of the aforementioned relationship.

Some might contend that these early musings had no definitive impact on the mindset of our Founding Fathers, but this to seems a dubious claim in light of the fact that many of them appear to have been pious and devout men who regularly attended church and that the Continental Congress hosted a prayer before convening on several occasions, including this one. While it's true that the Constitution expressly forbids the government from establishing a national church and mandates the separation of church and state, neither of these ideas intrinsically preclude the United States from being a Christian nation. Why? Because the state and the nation are not synonymous.

The state is an institution, often subservient to government, that organizes a swath of territory and/or a particular community under said government and that imposes the laws and edicts of that government over the aforementioned territory and/or community. The nation is "a stable community of people, formed on the basis of a common language, territory, economic life, ethnicity, or psychological make-up manifested in a common culture." The Constitution established our government and state as secular, but did not and could not in accordance with its own logic impose secularism on the community which that government and state served.

We see lots of indications of that to this day. Those cute calendars you can buy at the mall do not have Hanukkah, Yom Kippur, Purim, Ramadan, or Diwali demarcated and emphasized. They are more prone to revel in Christmas or Easter. And that's just one example. Seventy five percent of Americans are Christians according to a Gallup poll. We have had only two religiously nondenominational presidents, Thomas Jefferson and Andrew Johnson, with the former at least accommodating the Christian culture of his time. The rest have been Christians of varying stripes. Here is a source from Pew confirming the same.

In short, America is a highly inclusive Christian nation with a secular government and state.

I think you need to distinguish between a 'Christian Nation' and 'A nation of Christians'. What you described could fit the latter, but does not really mention anything supporting it being the former. A 'Christian Nation' needs to embody Christian values and bear fruit, essentially it discusses the nation as though it is an individual with moral leanings. Just to add to that, I would not argue if someone stated that there is no 'Christian Nation' on Earth.

[Grand Britannia]

It's clearly a Christian nation under a secular state, but people knowing the difference between the 2 is asking for too much.

[Fahran]

I think you need to distinguish between a 'Christian Nation' and 'A nation of Christians'. What you described could fit the latter, but does not really mention anything supporting it being the former. A 'Christian Nation' needs to embody Christian values and bear fruit, essentially it discusses the nation as though it is an individual with moral leanings. Just to add to that, I would not argue if someone stated that there is no 'Christian Nation' on Earth.

I'd contend that there's no real difference between a Christian nation and a nation of Christians in the context I underlined in my previous post. Christian values, ideas, and traditions often occupy a central place in American society despite robust efforts by more hard-line secularists, most usually atheists or multicultural advocates, to dislodge them. Really, the principal competition comes from neoliberalism and the dollar. This isn't necessarily problematic on its own. Personally, I do not find it so objectionable beyond the less civil evangelizers. Then again, I grew up accustomed to it and I cling to the life-raft of my own religion despite Christian influence.

[The New California Republic]

Why should it be?

Because Judeo-Christian cultural ethics are the most effective manner of sustaining a social order that can take advantage of the boons capitalism and federalism/democracy create.

I'm still libertarian enough not to swing completely against the individual freedom to choose judeo-christian cultural ethics. Hence... opposition to legislative fiat.

What evidence do you have of that being the case?

[Crylante]

The US has, from what I understand, an amendment explicitly outlining the secularism of its government.

[Salandriagado]

Your televangelist megachurches seem like an unholy cross between a con trick, a medicine show, and a pyramid scheme. Basically Christian in the same way North Korea is a democracy.

Sounds kinda No True Scotsman to me. Christians are people who believe that Jesus of Nazareth was the son of God and that his death was payment for mankind's sins. That does include the televangelist megachurches, even if they clearly prize financial gain over the well being of their flock.

I'm not really a fan of "Bigots aren't real Christians", "Terrorists aren't real Muslims" type of rhetoric. You are free to personally disavow whoever you want but it's not really accurate to say they don't share your religion.

There's an alternative interpretation: he's taking their actions as evidence that they don't actually believe the things that they preach (otherwise they'd, you know, act in a way that might actually get them into heaven), and so they are, in a literal sense, not actually Christians, just pretending to believe such for profit.

[Salandriagado]

Because that is how people marked the current year in the 1700s. That does not defeat "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"

Also from the treaty with tripoli in 1797: "The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion…."

Then why does Trump seek to restore what our founding fathers wanted?

He doesn't. He wants to make a profit for himself and make himself look good (by his own perverse measure), and literally nothing else.

Trump does have near unconditional support from right-wing Evangelicals, but he does have to throw them bones once in awhile. The whole moving the US embassy to Jerusalem thing, that had very little to do with backing Israel and more to do with pleasing nutcases who think that such a move will hasten the apocalypse. He also has to be publicly "pro-life" and enact a few policies which restrict abortion rights here or there (or nominate someone like Kavanaugh, where it's implicitly understood how he will rule on the abortion issue). Which is ironic because you can definitely imagine Trump paying for a few abortions after some one night stands throughout his life.

Trump himself is not a dominionist Christian or even a Christian at all, based on his behavior and rhetoric I consider him to be an autotheist - he worships himself. But he also knows where his bread is buttered, and he will continue to throw bones to the dominionists.

I mean, it might be 'understood' that Kavanaugh will rule on Abortion. But the actual chance of Abortions status changing is somewhat remote. And Kavanaugh's appointment does not change that. He might be 'pro life' but has it at all been on his agenda of things he's actually fighting for?

No, but actually achieving a change wasn't the objective: appeasing evangelical voters was the objective.

[Distruzio]

Because Judeo-Christian cultural ethics are the most effective manner of sustaining a social order that can take advantage of the boons capitalism and federalism/democracy create.

I'm still libertarian enough not to swing completely against the individual freedom to choose judeo-christian cultural ethics. Hence... opposition to legislative fiat.

And what makes them the most effective?

The concept of personal, individual, responsibility to family, kin, and kind in addition to an emphasis on propertarian ethics and the delay of gratification.

Without any one of those things, the individualist either succumbs to collectivism or hedonist moral degeneracy.

[Distruzio]

Because Judeo-Christian cultural ethics are the most effective manner of sustaining a social order that can take advantage of the boons capitalism and federalism/democracy create.

I'm still libertarian enough not to swing completely against the individual freedom to choose judeo-christian cultural ethics. Hence... opposition to legislative fiat.

What evidence do you have of that being the case?

Without intentionally sounding too terribly snide... how's about the economic and social miracle of the West itself?

Have there been any other cultures that have come so far in such a short amount of time without the intervention of Western nations?

[Novi Vrakanda]

Is it really a debate? Seriously. US has been majority christian for ages.

[Distruzio]

Is it really a debate? Seriously. US has been majority christian for ages.

A nation of Christians is not a Christian nation, though.

[Uinted Communist of Africa]

No its not.....and it has never acted like one.
Slavery?
Nazi-ism?
Capitalism??
Gays??
Imperialism???
GENOCIDE!?!!??!?!?!? (times two if you consider the deaths of slaves and natives in the "new world")
Yeah I'm Christian and none of that is what the bible promotes

[Novi Vrakanda]

Is it really a debate? Seriously. US has been majority christian for ages.

A nation of Christians is not a Christian nation, though.

I mean, the majority does have some influence in the decision making process. We like to think the government is secular, but people like Mike Pence and Jeff Sessions are far from secularity.

[Salandriagado]

Because ''the Year of our Lord'' means Anno Domini, which was used as a general way of measuring time before the ''Common Era'' definition was introduced (first time in the English language it was somewhere in 1770 in a translation).

I wish people had started using C.E. instead of the A.D. earlier tbh.

The idea (originally as "vulgar era") has been around since 1615, which surprised me.

[Sahansahiye Iran]

No its not.....and it has never acted like one.
Slavery?
Nazi-ism?
Capitalism??
Gays??
Imperialism???
GENOCIDE!?!!??!?!?!? (times two if you consider the deaths of slaves and natives in the "new world")
Yeah I'm Christian and none of that is what the bible promotes

Erm. Maybe not the New Testament but the Bible pretty explicitly promotes most of these lol. Ask the Canaanites about genocide.

Oh wait.

[Uinted Communist of Africa]

No its not.....and it has never acted like one.
Slavery?
Nazi-ism?
Capitalism??
Gays??
Imperialism???
GENOCIDE!?!!??!?!?!? (times two if you consider the deaths of slaves and natives in the "new world")
Yeah I'm Christian and none of that is what the bible promotes

Erm. Maybe not the New Testament but the Bible pretty explicitly promotes most of these lol. Ask the Canaanites about genocide.

Oh wait.

Okay clearly I'm talking about the new testament.....hence the "Christian"
The old testaments are literally just for jewish history lessons

[Distruzio]

A nation of Christians is not a Christian nation, though.

I mean, the majority does have some influence in the decision making process. We like to think the government is secular, but people like Mike Pence and Jeff Sessions are far from secularity.

True enough... but having an influence is not directing the direction of the nation, you know?

I mean... technically, we could use that same logic that the US is also a matriarchy since there are more female Americans than there are male Americans.

Is America a matriarchy?

Of course not.

[Sahansahiye Iran]

Erm. Maybe not the New Testament but the Bible pretty explicitly promotes most of these lol. Ask the Canaanites about genocide.

Oh wait.

Okay clearly I'm talking about the new testament.....hence the "Christian"
The old testaments are literally just for jewish history lessons

No, it's not clear. Considering how many Christian lawmakers in the US base their beliefs on the Old Testament, too. If you meant the New Testament, then say the New Testament. It is lazy to just say the Bible doesn't promote those.

[Uinted Communist of Africa]

Okay clearly I'm talking about the new testament.....hence the "Christian"
The old testaments are literally just for jewish history lessons

No, it's not clear. Considering how many Christian lawmakers in the US base their beliefs on the Old Testament, too. If you meant the New Testament, then say the New Testament. It is lazy to just say the Bible doesn't promote those.

Okay
THE NEW TESTAMENT(which christians are explicitly told to follow) dont support any of those things which i will not be writiing again out of sheer laziness

[The New California Republic]

What evidence do you have of that being the case?

Without intentionally sounding too terribly snide... how's about the economic and social miracle of the West itself?

Have there been any other cultures that have come so far in such a short amount of time without the intervention of Western nations?

Correlation =/= causation. Looking to Christianity as one of the causes of economic power is dubious at best.

[Distruzio]

Without intentionally sounding too terribly snide... how's about the economic and social miracle of the West itself?

Have there been any other cultures that have come so far in such a short amount of time without the intervention of Western nations?

Correlation =/= causation. Looking to Christianity as one of the causes of economic power is dubious at best.

Walk me through how that makes sense to you?

[Salandriagado]

Correlation =/= causation. Looking to Christianity as one of the causes of economic power is dubious at best.

Walk me through how that makes sense to you?

He has a basic understanding of history and/or statistics?