Life Sentence or Death Sentence???

[The Free Joy State]

I guarantee you that if I went to a prison I could 100 percent... 100 percent fool a parole board even if I feel literally no remorse

These people do not read minds; just give them what they want without over acting, it’s not hard

No mate, you really, really couldn't. If that were the case, we wouldn't have parole because of how ridiculously easy it would be to subvert the process.

I will concede that parole boards probably do make mistakes from time to time. However the only place that lying to the parole board and faking it really works is Hollywood films.

And only in movies because the character is a designated antihero protagonist to fill a designated plot: either some kind of heist that goes hilariously wrong, in which they meet someone they once knew and repent of their deeds to live a quiet and law-abiding life, or a much darker crime movie in which the real protagonist is the indefatigable cop who brings them to justice.

But... yeah, not that easy IRL.

[Infected Mushroom]

I guarantee you that if I went to a prison I could 100 percent... 100 percent fool a parole board even if I feel literally no remorse

These people do not read minds; just give them what they want without over acting, it’s not hard

No mate, you really, really couldn't. If that were the case, we wouldn't have parole because of how ridiculously easy it would be to subvert the process.

I will concede that parole boards probably do make mistakes from time to time. However the only place that lying to the parole board and faking it really works is Hollywood films.

Are you kidding me?????

Faking the parole board never works????

Then explain to me why there’s such a high recidivism rate even among those paroled...

What are they now mind readers? Prof x is on the parole board?

A trained CIA interrogator could screw up in terms of who’s lying and who’s not.

[Infected Mushroom]

No mate, you really, really couldn't. If that were the case, we wouldn't have parole because of how ridiculously easy it would be to subvert the process.

I will concede that parole boards probably do make mistakes from time to time. However the only place that lying to the parole board and faking it really works is Hollywood films.

And only in movies because the character is a designated antihero protagonist to fill a designated plot: either some kind of heist that goes hilariously wrong, in which they meet someone they once knew and repent of their deeds to live a quiet and law-abiding life, or a much darker crime movie in which the real protagonist is the indefatigable cop who brings them to justice.

But... yeah, not that easy IRL.

Parole board gets fooled all the time. Tons of people, paroled even, re offend

[Infected Mushroom]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3493418/amp/A-flatscreen-TV-PlayStation-GYM-Inside-cushy-jail-mass-murderer-Anders-Breivik-moans-cruel-breaches-human-rights.html

Breivik’s cell.

Look at how comfortable it is.

He’s seeing better days in solitary then someone who killed just one person in the USA.

Norway is such a friendly place.

I expect Annie would be held in similar conditions.

I already had a source. The BBC, who I trust far more than the Daily Mail.

And no. It does not look comfortable. He has three rooms, only because he is in solitary. And solitary confinement is mentally damaging.

In fact, Breivik complained that the conditions he was being kept in had "radicalised him further."

This is prison. It is punishment. Not a holiday-camp by the sea.

EDIT: And, from my source, contrary to the OP, Witch Annie probably would not get video games. This was said of Breivik:

Asked whether Breivik, who used to relax by playing video shooting and role-playing games, would have access to computer games, she [ed: the prison spokeswoman] said it was a police decision but she doubted he would.

I imagine a similarly dangerous criminal would also be denied.

If your last point is true, then I’m surprised this is not considered a human rights issue...

[The Free Joy State]

And only in movies because the character is a designated antihero protagonist to fill a designated plot: either some kind of heist that goes hilariously wrong, in which they meet someone they once knew and repent of their deeds to live a quiet and law-abiding life, or a much darker crime movie in which the real protagonist is the indefatigable cop who brings them to justice.

But... yeah, not that easy IRL.

Parole board gets fooled all the time. Tons of people, paroled even, re offend

Recidivism is not as simple as "they said sorry and didn't mean it".

This isn't nursery school, where people cross their fingers behind their back and say: "I'm really sorry, Miss" and someone says, "Aww, the poor little love must mean it." There are intensive psychological examinations.

Recidivism is linked to substance abuse, personality disorders, poor social support, poverty, lack of vocational support, and stigmatisation due to being an ex-offender.

It's actually quite complex.

EDIT: And, as for Breivik's conditions, it's a direct quote from the BBC article. I suggest you read that over the Daily Mail. He has a computer, but will likely never have the internet; all his mail will be screened and he will likely never have video games. It's prison.

[Caracasus]

No mate, you really, really couldn't. If that were the case, we wouldn't have parole because of how ridiculously easy it would be to subvert the process.

I will concede that parole boards probably do make mistakes from time to time. However the only place that lying to the parole board and faking it really works is Hollywood films.

Are you kidding me?????

Faking the parole board never works????

Then explain to me why there’s such a high recidivism rate even among those paroled...

What are they now mind readers? Prof x is on the parole board?

A trained CIA interrogator could screw up in terms of who’s lying and who’s not.

High recidivism rates have many causes, often due to the lack of support given to parolees after release. You would note for instance that recidivism drops sharply in countries that prioritize rehabilitation over punishment and have more robust welfare systems generally. Just because the system breaks down in vital areas when it comes to supporting ex cons doesn't mean that you personally would be able to con a parole board.

Plus, given this hypothetical we already have magic, so sure. The parole board consists of three telepaths.

CIA interrogators never screw up. They are torturers and the objective of torture is not to get information. It is to break other human beings and achieve dominace over the victim. They do that well. The CIA doesn't really give a toss whether the drone strikes in Afghanistan are killing terrorists or not, only that the drone strikes are happening and that everyone gets the message loud and clear that America will wipe out any challenge more or less indiscriminantly.

[Infected Mushroom]

Parole board gets fooled all the time. Tons of people, paroled even, re offend

Recidivism is not as simple as "they said sorry and didn't mean it".

This isn't nursery school, where people cross their fingers behind their back and say: "I'm really sorry, Miss" and someone says, "Aww, the poor little love must mean it." There are intensive psychological examinations.

Recidivism is linked to substance abuse, personality disorders, poor social support, poverty, lack of vocational support, and stigmatisation due to being an ex-offender.

It's actually quite complex.

EDIT: And, as for Breivik's conditions, it's a direct quote from the BBC article. I suggest you read that over the Daily Mail. He has a computer, but will likely never have the internet; all his mail will be screened and he will likely never have video games. It's prison.

It can be linked to other factors.

However, all else being equal, the fact that there is a fairly high/substantial re-offense rate even among those released earlier then their full sentence (paroled) is to me... fairly strong evidence that the parole board can be and is frequently fooled

There are other factors that correlate but clearly, the parole board makes frequent errors about who they release.

As for the video games, I read in another source that he currently does have an x box.

It’s not all that important though. It’s 2033 and in this op it says her sentence involves a free Xbox and other entertainment. So it seems that I may have made Norway more liberal in its prison system.

[Infected Mushroom]

Are you kidding me?????

Faking the parole board never works????

Then explain to me why there’s such a high recidivism rate even among those paroled...

What are they now mind readers? Prof x is on the parole board?

A trained CIA interrogator could screw up in terms of who’s lying and who’s not.

High recidivism rates have many causes, often due to the lack of support given to parolees after release. You would note for instance that recidivism drops sharply in countries that prioritize rehabilitation over punishment and have more robust welfare systems generally. Just because the system breaks down in vital areas when it comes to supporting ex cons doesn't mean that you personally would be able to con a parole board.

Plus, given this hypothetical we already have magic, so sure. The parole board consists of three telepaths.

CIA interrogators never screw up. They are torturers and the objective of torture is not to get information. It is to break other human beings and achieve dominace over the victim. They do that well. The CIA doesn't really give a toss whether the drone strikes in Afghanistan are killing terrorists or not, only that the drone strikes are happening and that everyone gets the message loud and clear that America will wipe out any challenge more or less indiscriminantly.

Of course there’s correlation with other factors. But the fact that people reoffend (even those paroled) shows that the parole board is frequently fooled/makes mistakes.

There are no mind readers in the op, mind reading is not part of this op universe’s highly weaponized/healing focused magic.

[The Free Joy State]

Recidivism is not as simple as "they said sorry and didn't mean it".

This isn't nursery school, where people cross their fingers behind their back and say: "I'm really sorry, Miss" and someone says, "Aww, the poor little love must mean it." There are intensive psychological examinations.

Recidivism is linked to substance abuse, personality disorders, poor social support, poverty, lack of vocational support, and stigmatisation due to being an ex-offender.

It's actually quite complex.

EDIT: And, as for Breivik's conditions, it's a direct quote from the BBC article. I suggest you read that over the Daily Mail. He has a computer, but will likely never have the internet; all his mail will be screened and he will likely never have video games. It's prison.

It can be linked to other factors.

However, all else being equal, the fact that there is a fairly high/substantial re-offense rate even among those released earlier then their full sentence (paroled) is to me... fairly strong evidence that the parole board can be and is frequently fooled

There are other factors that correlate but clearly, the parole board makes frequent errors about who they release.

As for the video games, I read in another source that he currently does have an x box.

It’s not all that important though. It’s 2033 and in this op it says her sentence involves a free Xbox and other entertainment. So it seems that I may have made Norway more liberal in its prison system.

A genocidal witch will not be among those errors. They do not let people who commit open genocide out of prison.

I don't care how "liberal" a prison system is.

As for Norway's enormously liberal prison system in the OP, where felons are sentenced to play Xbox, I guess I'm now imagining a fictional Norway, too. OK.

Is this a fictional Norway where she'll get out after 21 years, regardless of the actual reality IRL? If so, I've changed my vote: death penalty.

I hate the death penalty. I abhor the death penalty. It's inhumane, it's expensive and it's ineffective. But if reality can't seem to win in this scenario, and if Witch Annie is getting out, I vote death penalty for Witch Annie (and for her only, because this is an alternate world).

[Caracasus]

High recidivism rates have many causes, often due to the lack of support given to parolees after release. You would note for instance that recidivism drops sharply in countries that prioritize rehabilitation over punishment and have more robust welfare systems generally. Just because the system breaks down in vital areas when it comes to supporting ex cons doesn't mean that you personally would be able to con a parole board.

Plus, given this hypothetical we already have magic, so sure. The parole board consists of three telepaths.

CIA interrogators never screw up. They are torturers and the objective of torture is not to get information. It is to break other human beings and achieve dominace over the victim. They do that well. The CIA doesn't really give a toss whether the drone strikes in Afghanistan are killing terrorists or not, only that the drone strikes are happening and that everyone gets the message loud and clear that America will wipe out any challenge more or less indiscriminantly.

Of course there’s correlation with other factors. But the fact that people reoffend (even those paroled) shows that the parole board is frequently fooled/makes mistakes.

There are no mind readers in the op, mind reading is not part of this op universe’s highly weaponized/healing focused magic.

A parole board does not guarantee that a prisoner will never commit a crime again, what they do is say if the prisoner is safe to release back into society - i.e that there's a low enough risk that they won't harm others or they won't get hurt themselves. It's hardly surprising that in countries without a decent welfare state, even prisoners deemed safe to release might commit crimes again.

Recidivism is not proof that the parole board is easily fooled, rather it shows that the given society isn't very good at supporting ex cons.

Additionally I don't think I ever said parole boards get it right all the time. In this case though, they would certainly err on the side of caution. Even if she was safe to release, there'd be very powerful outfits looking to kill her or otherwise harm her. She's never getting out of prison.

Also, there totally are telepaths. The Chinese Supernatural Agency found out a way to train up wizards who can use electricity to read minds.

(Seriously though, you're once again altering the setup after the fact...)

[Ifreann]

The prison will probably give them your internet history.

How can they give it when I would simply destroy all my devices beforehand?

That's prison property you just destroyed. Parole denied, a week in the hole.

[Infected Mushroom]

It can be linked to other factors.

However, all else being equal, the fact that there is a fairly high/substantial re-offense rate even among those released earlier then their full sentence (paroled) is to me... fairly strong evidence that the parole board can be and is frequently fooled

There are other factors that correlate but clearly, the parole board makes frequent errors about who they release.

As for the video games, I read in another source that he currently does have an x box.

It’s not all that important though. It’s 2033 and in this op it says her sentence involves a free Xbox and other entertainment. So it seems that I may have made Norway more liberal in its prison system.

A genocidal witch will not be among those errors. They do not let people who commit open genocide out of prison.

I don't care how "liberal" a prison system is.

As for Norway's enormously liberal prison system in the OP, where felons are sentenced to play Xbox, I guess I'm now imagining a fictional Norway, too. OK.

Is this a fictional Norway where she'll get out after 21 years, regardless of the actual reality IRL? If so, I've changed my vote: death penalty.

I hate the death penalty. I abhor the death penalty. It's inhumane, it's expensive and it's ineffective. But if reality can't seem to win in this scenario, and if Witch Annie is getting out, I vote death penalty for Witch Annie (and for her only, because this is an alternate world).

But why are you so scared of the possibility of a 50 year old woman getting out of prison? She doesn’t have any more powers or the reflexes anymore... she’ll probably suffer enough just trying to get used to how things work again. In 21 years the entire rhythm of the world changes with all the technology and stuff; not a good time...

Why does it matter so much whether she lives her last few decades behind bars or not?

In this version of Norway... true to the letter of the sentence, she MAY be released in 21 years. It’s not definite but the system is assumed to have a very rehabilitative focus and a bit of a liberal forgiving character. Theoretically anyways.

[The New California Republic]

How can they give it when I would simply destroy all my devices beforehand?

That's prison property you just destroyed. Parole denied, a week in the hole.

Added to the fact that if I destroyed my phone just now that it wouldn't mean that all my posts on NationStates would disappear...

[Infected Mushroom]

How can they give it when I would simply destroy all my devices beforehand?

That's prison property you just destroyed. Parole denied, a week in the hole.

For the record, this is a conversation I am no longer interested in entertaining

Is there a way we can go back to the op instead?

[The Free Joy State]

A genocidal witch will not be among those errors. They do not let people who commit open genocide out of prison.

I don't care how "liberal" a prison system is.

As for Norway's enormously liberal prison system in the OP, where felons are sentenced to play Xbox, I guess I'm now imagining a fictional Norway, too. OK.

Is this a fictional Norway where she'll get out after 21 years, regardless of the actual reality IRL? If so, I've changed my vote: death penalty.

I hate the death penalty. I abhor the death penalty. It's inhumane, it's expensive and it's ineffective. But if reality can't seem to win in this scenario, and if Witch Annie is getting out, I vote death penalty for Witch Annie (and for her only, because this is an alternate world).

But why are you so scared of the possibility of a 50 year old woman getting out of prison? She doesn’t have any more powers or the reflexes anymore... she’ll probably suffer enough just trying to get used to how things work again. In 21 years the entire rhythm of the world changes with all the technology and stuff; not a good time...

Why does it matter so much whether she lives her last few decades behind bars or not?

In this version of Norway... true to the letter of the sentence, she MAY be released in 21 years. It’s not definite but the system is assumed to have a very rehabilitative focus and a bit of a liberal forgiving character. Theoretically anyways.

Witch Annie is a genocidal maniac.

She either dies in prison or she dies now. There's no getting out. If you're saying that getting out is an option, death penalty (though I'm opposed to it on every principle).

50 year old women are not doddery and harmless. They actually can be quite strong, and generally possess all their mental faculties.

Case in point, Emma Zimmer, known for being a sadistic guard in the Nazi concentration camps of Ravensbrueck and Auschwitz, was well in her 50s.

Moving away from the Nazis, Amelia Dyer (the so-called "Angel Maker") was in her late 50s when she was "baby-farming", killing several hundred infants. Harmless, she was not.

[Thermodolia]

But if she were, would you actually (if unrestricted by the hypo) consider an “Inglorious Bastards” style extra judicial execution?

So for example, tell her she will be sent to Norway to face trial but purposely have the guards transporting her take into a secluded area instead, execute her, and then officially report her as having disappeared?

And yet you dismissed my Ceaușescu comparison.


Also disappeared is not what offical statements would say for her. That's a stupid excuse for a genocidal monster that everyone on earth would be looking for and wanting dead persumably. Leads to the modern Hitler problem were he definitely died in Berlin 1945 from suicide but because of a multitude of reasons you still get people claiming he lived out the rest of his life in Argentina.

Even if Hitler did escape, he didn’t let’s make that clear, Mossad would have found him, drugged him, and taken him back to Israel for a massive trial in the 60s.

[Thermodolia]

Again Quisling. Norwegians aren't some fairytale people.


Not my fucking point, haveing her be "disappeared" is worse then any option because that allows people to think she is free somewhere.

Then perhaps they’ll stage an accident?

No they’d just say the truth. That she was killed by a missile strike

[Infected Mushroom]

And yet you dismissed my Ceaușescu comparison.


Also disappeared is not what offical statements would say for her. That's a stupid excuse for a genocidal monster that everyone on earth would be looking for and wanting dead persumably. Leads to the modern Hitler problem were he definitely died in Berlin 1945 from suicide but because of a multitude of reasons you still get people claiming he lived out the rest of his life in Argentina.

Even if Hitler did escape, he didn’t let’s make that clear, Mossad would have found him, drugged him, and taken him back to Israel for a massive trial in the 60s.

That would be profoundly unethical and illegal...

But it’s definitely something I’d imagine Israel’s government would do

[Infected Mushroom]

But why are you so scared of the possibility of a 50 year old woman getting out of prison? She doesn’t have any more powers or the reflexes anymore... she’ll probably suffer enough just trying to get used to how things work again. In 21 years the entire rhythm of the world changes with all the technology and stuff; not a good time...

Why does it matter so much whether she lives her last few decades behind bars or not?

In this version of Norway... true to the letter of the sentence, she MAY be released in 21 years. It’s not definite but the system is assumed to have a very rehabilitative focus and a bit of a liberal forgiving character. Theoretically anyways.

Witch Annie is a genocidal maniac.

She either dies in prison or she dies now. There's no getting out. If you're saying that getting out is an option, death penalty (though I'm opposed to it on every principle).

50 year old women are not doddery and harmless. They actually can be quite strong, and generally possess all their mental faculties.

Case in point, Emma Zimmer, known for being a sadistic guard in the Nazi concentration camps of Ravensbrueck and Auschwitz, was well in her 50s.

Moving away from the Nazis, Amelia Dyer (the so-called "Angel Maker") was in her late 50s when she was "baby-farming", killing several hundred infants. Harmless, she was not.

So you’re saying, for genocidal maniacs...

If it’s life sentence (no chance of parole) vs death you choose life... but if there’s a realistic parole chance... then you choose death?

Is this only for genocide or for some other crimes as well?

[Thermodolia]

^ Basically this.

Witch Annie is not getting out of prison. Even if she does not face the death penalty, she will face a whole-life term. And she will be treated as a dangerous criminal, not a valued guest at the Ritz-Carlton (she'd be sent to the female equivalent of the stark Ila Prison, where Breivik ended up; it's not luxury)

There would be massive public outcry if they even tried to release her.

Breivik is living in very comfortable conditions

His cell literally looks like a college dorm room and it has 3 rooms

Let me try to find the source

Your definition of comfortable is quite insane

[The Free Joy State]

Even if Hitler did escape, he didn’t let’s make that clear, Mossad would have found him, drugged him, and taken him back to Israel for a massive trial in the 60s.

That would be profoundly unethical and illegal...

But it’s definitely something I’d imagine Israel’s government would do

Unethical? To find and try the instigator of a genocide? I think not.

Had he escaped, which he didn't, bringing him to justice would definitely have been justified.

[Infected Mushroom]

Breivik is living in very comfortable conditions

His cell literally looks like a college dorm room and it has 3 rooms

Let me try to find the source

Your definition of comfortable is quite insane

College dorm rooms are honestly quite comfortable... with a desk you could also sit and draw all day...

[Infected Mushroom]

That would be profoundly unethical and illegal...

But it’s definitely something I’d imagine Israel’s government would do

Unethical? To find and try the instigator of a genocide? I think not.

Had he escaped, which he didn't, bringing him to justice would definitely have been justified.

But Israel doesn’t have jurisdiction

[The Free Joy State]

Witch Annie is a genocidal maniac.

She either dies in prison or she dies now. There's no getting out. If you're saying that getting out is an option, death penalty (though I'm opposed to it on every principle).

50 year old women are not doddery and harmless. They actually can be quite strong, and generally possess all their mental faculties.

Case in point, Emma Zimmer, known for being a sadistic guard in the Nazi concentration camps of Ravensbrueck and Auschwitz, was well in her 50s.

Moving away from the Nazis, Amelia Dyer (the so-called "Angel Maker") was in her late 50s when she was "baby-farming", killing several hundred infants. Harmless, she was not.

So you’re saying, for genocidal maniacs...

If it’s life sentence (no chance of parole) vs death you choose life... but if there’s a realistic parole chance... then you choose death?

Is this only for genocide or for some other crimes as well?

I'm talking about this hypothetical only, and Witch Annie.

In the real world, there's no chance a genocidal maniac would ever get parole.

[Thermodolia]

I guarantee you that if I went to a prison I could 100 percent... 100 percent fool a parole board even if I feel literally no remorse

These people do not read minds; just give them what they want without over acting, it’s not hard

Gonna be a real shock for you when it turns out they've read your posts on NSG.

Time to figure out how to get on a parole board