Cutting People Off From Society For Their Politics

[Ifreann]

Not really. People just aren't getting away with trying to hide their fascism behind some other name or other symbols.

*shrug* Mistakes will happen.

So your response is basically "yes everyone whose views I don't like is actually a fascist but just hiding it, and therefore it's okay if we beat up someone who isn't by mistake because violence is justified against fascists." Got it.

No, my response is that it might seem to you like people are being called fascists who aren't, but there's a strong possibility that you just can't tell who the fascists are. And I didn't say that mistakes are okay, just that they happen.

---

Anti-fascists are just people, they can make mistakes. Consider that the police and military injure and kill many many times more innocent people than anti-fascists ever have or probably ever could. Do you quake in fear when you see a police officer?

One who upholds an actual written law? No.

A vigilante extremist? Yes.

Police officers arrest, injure, and kill innocent people on a pretty regular basis, and have been doing so for as long as there has been such a thing as a police officers, and will probably continue to do so for as long as there continues to be such things as police officers.

Objectively the police are more dangerous than anti-fascists.

Not really. People just aren't getting away with trying to hide their fascism behind some other name or other symbols.

*shrug* Mistakes will happen.

All right, I'm mistakenly getting a crowbar ready for your face.

I doubt it, you're probably several hundred miles away, and wouldn't recognise me even if you were in crowbarring range.

---

You keep saying civilians as if there's soldiers involved in some way.

Are you going to look at my source, or are you going to foolishly over-examine the word civilian?

I'm at work and this computer is garbage, so no, I'm not going to watch a YouTube video.

---

Police officers in the US have killed...probably thousands of innocent people over the years. That they may not be actively looking for someone to attack clearly does not make people safe from them.

Thousands is the total number of killings, and unjust is a fraction of that.

I'm just guessing, as far as I'm aware there isn't much good data on police killings in the US, certainly not for the entire history of the nation. But I think it's a fair guess.

And a rogue police officer is actually breaking a law, while Antifa has no laws to abide by.

Anti-fascists are subject to the same laws as everyone else in their nation. Obviously.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

I don't want them to be hit myself,

I support being antifascist and hitting Fascists, yes.

[Frievolk]

I don't want them to be hit myself,

I support being antifascist and hitting Fascists, yes.

I stand corrected.

[Page]

Punching nazis is one of those things that I don't condone nor encourage, but definitely wouldn't condemn either. One of those things I'd just shrug and be all like "okay, whatever." However, when nazis are violent or threaten violence, I fully condone antifascists using whatever level of force necessary to neutralize them to defend themselves and others.

[The New California Republic]

I'm at work and this computer is garbage, so no, I'm not going to watch a YouTube video.

I'd love to know how many total hours of lost productivity that the NSForums are responsible for across its entire user base...

[Hammer Britannia]

I'm at work and this computer is garbage, so no, I'm not going to watch a YouTube video.

I'd love to know how many total hours of lost productivity that the NSForums are responsible for across its entire user base...

1,331,920 A day

Presuming that every person on NS needs to works/learns 8 hours a day

[Hammer Britannia]

I'm at work and this computer is garbage, so no, I'm not going to watch a YouTube video.

I'd love to know how many total hours of lost productivity that the NSForums are responsible for across its entire user base...

1,331,920 A day

Presuming that every person on NS needs to works/learns 8 hours a day

[Straite]

How about we just all agree to dislike nazi-sympathizers and commie-sympathizers.

People who advocate violence to dissenters & destroy public property are all degenerates, whatever flag they fly.

[Ifreann]

Truly, there is no need to be concerned about this group of self-appointed political radicals policing who is allowed to protest and speak.

It's one of the great marvels of technological evolution that merely considering oneself part of the non-membership and decentralised anti-organisation known as antifa immediately downloads a radar system into your brain allowing you perfect clarity in locating and identifying fascists. Even better, the system instantly immobilises any ideological adherent who even considers using "fascist" as a snarl to justify beating up people who aren't fascists but they just happen to strongly disagree with.

Anti-fascists might wrongly identify someone as a fascist and beat them up. This is true of everyone who engages in any kind of violence, and realistically every political position endorses violence in some circumstances. I'm sure fascists have murdered a lot of people who weren't actually Jews. The army bombs civilians. The police shoot innocent people.

Is there a further point?

[The New California Republic]

How about we just all agree to dislike nazi-sympathizers and commie-sympathizers.

No.

[Straite]

Anti-fascists might wrongly identify someone as a fascist and beat them up. This is true of everyone who engages in any kind of violence, and realistically every political position endorses violence in some circumstances. I'm sure fascists have murdered a lot of people who weren't actually Jews. The army bombs civilians. The police shoot innocent people.

Is there a further point?

Last I checked a university had to spend millions of dollars in security just so a Jew could express his pretty moderate views without being attacked. I think it has become pretty clear that the fascist detector has been upsidedownandbackwards

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Truly, there is no need to be concerned about this group of self-appointed political radicals policing who is allowed to protest and speak.

It's one of the great marvels of technological evolution that merely considering oneself part of the non-membership and decentralised anti-organisation known as antifa immediately downloads a radar system into your brain allowing you perfect clarity in locating and identifying fascists. Even better, the system instantly immobilises any ideological adherent who even considers using "fascist" as a snarl to justify beating up people who aren't fascists but they just happen to strongly disagree with.

Anti-fascists might wrongly identify someone as a fascist and beat them up. This is true of everyone who engages in any kind of violence, and realistically every political position endorses violence in some circumstances. I'm sure fascists have murdered a lot of people who weren't actually Jews. The army bombs civilians. The police shoot innocent people.

Is there a further point?

Easy solution: Don't engage in violence except for self-defence and competition. It's much harder to falsely identify someone as a violent attacker. And no, not every political position has to endorse non-defensive violence. At least, not to a large degree.

[Liriena]

Is cutting people off from society for their politics not what China does currently with that number system thing?

Not a big fan of making it state-enforced.

[Dumb Ideologies]

Truly, there is no need to be concerned about this group of self-appointed political radicals policing who is allowed to protest and speak.

It's one of the great marvels of technological evolution that merely considering oneself part of the non-membership and decentralised anti-organisation known as antifa immediately downloads a radar system into your brain allowing you perfect clarity in locating and identifying fascists. Even better, the system instantly immobilises any ideological adherent who even considers using "fascist" as a snarl to justify beating up people who aren't fascists but they just happen to strongly disagree with.

Anti-fascists might wrongly identify someone as a fascist and beat them up. This is true of everyone who engages in any kind of violence, and realistically every political position endorses violence in some circumstances. I'm sure fascists have murdered a lot of people who weren't actually Jews. The army bombs civilians. The police shoot innocent people.

Is there a further point?

Let's set up a group helping to tackle the jihadi problem. As with the fascist problem, the police just aren't doing enough and often tolerate unacceptable behaviour that's somewhere on the spectrum of terror apologetics. We reserve the right to observe on our own terms any of the meetings and rallies where these sorts of people tend to hang out, and shut them down with force if we think anything unacceptable is said.

We might steel-toecap the occasional person who was just trying to pray or speak, but honest guv we're only here to disarm anyone with a Muslamic raygun and everyone makes mistakes.

[Trumptonium1]

Do you want to know why the NPC meme hits [progressive] liberals so hard?

About as much as I want to hear about how soy turns people liberal.

We can spend all day about that.

[Liriena]

Do you want to know why the NPC meme hits [progressive] liberals so hard?

About as much as I want to hear about how soy turns people liberal.

tl;dr reactionaries can't do science, consistently misread shit and end up just plain making shit up to delegitimize their opponents by casting their ideas as the product of psychological or physiological flaws

It's just cheap, bootlegged ad homs for people with no curiosity or critical thought

[Trumptonium1]

About as much as I want to hear about how soy turns people liberal.

It's just cheap, bootlegged ad homs for people with no curiosity or critical thought

Reactionaries have a right to play that game too!

[Demopolitania]

A very small number of people who are drawn to white supremacy can be talked back simply by paying attention to them since lack of human contact is what propels many people to cults in the first place. A much, much smaller number can actually be convinced that their beliefs don't make sense. Generally speaking though, they're too far gone to be worth the effort. Trying to reason with a zombie who traded in their free will for an insatiable desire for human flesh is as degrading as it is futile.

Literal Ostracism would be the ideal solution. It originally meant "to send to the East", the word comes from ancient Athens where they considered it integral to the functioning of democracy to periodically exile citizens whom a sufficient quorum had deemed a threat to the social order. We wouldn't have to deal with the stress of constantly keeping them under control if we sent them all to an asteroid, where they could oppress eachother to their heart's content and it wouldn't be our problem since they're essentially wild animals.

[Ifreann]

Anti-fascists might wrongly identify someone as a fascist and beat them up. This is true of everyone who engages in any kind of violence, and realistically every political position endorses violence in some circumstances. I'm sure fascists have murdered a lot of people who weren't actually Jews. The army bombs civilians. The police shoot innocent people.

Is there a further point?

Last I checked a university had to spend millions of dollars in security just so a Jew could express his pretty moderate views without being attacked. I think it has become pretty clear that the fascist detector has been upsidedownandbackwards

Your conclusion would seem not to follow from your premise, and further doesn't substantially respond to my post.

---

Anti-fascists might wrongly identify someone as a fascist and beat them up. This is true of everyone who engages in any kind of violence, and realistically every political position endorses violence in some circumstances. I'm sure fascists have murdered a lot of people who weren't actually Jews. The army bombs civilians. The police shoot innocent people.

Is there a further point?

Easy solution: Don't engage in violence except for self-defence and competition. It's much harder to falsely identify someone as a violent attacker.

There have been several high profile cases of the police shooting dead black men, who were apparently not doing anything wrong, and insisting they were defending themselves.

And no, not every political position has to endorse non-defensive violence. At least, not to a large degree.

Defensive violence is still violence.

[Northeast American Federation]

A very small number of people who are drawn to white supremacy can be talked back simply by paying attention to them since lack of human contact is what propels many people to cults in the first place. A much, much smaller number can actually be convinced that their beliefs don't make sense. Generally speaking though, they're too far gone to be worth the effort. Trying to reason with a zombie who traded in their free will for an insatiable desire for human flesh is as degrading as it is futile.

Literal Ostracism would be the ideal solution. It originally meant "to send to the East", the word comes from ancient Athens where they considered it integral to the functioning of democracy to periodically exile citizens whom a sufficient quorum had deemed a threat to the social order. We wouldn't have to deal with the stress of constantly keeping them under control if we sent them all to an asteroid, where they could oppress eachother to their heart's content and it wouldn't be our problem since they're essentially wild animals.

So what happens if your guys don't end up in power and you're the one exiled to an asteroid?

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Last I checked a university had to spend millions of dollars in security just so a Jew could express his pretty moderate views without being attacked. I think it has become pretty clear that the fascist detector has been upsidedownandbackwards

Your conclusion would seem not to follow from your premise, and further doesn't substantially respond to my post.

---

Easy solution: Don't engage in violence except for self-defence and competition. It's much harder to falsely identify someone as a violent attacker.

There have been several high profile cases of the police shooting dead black men, who were apparently not doing anything wrong, and insisting they were defending themselves.

And no, not every political position has to endorse non-defensive violence. At least, not to a large degree.

Defensive violence is still violence.

When did I say that police shooting unarmed people was fine, or that modern society was perfectly non-violent?

True, but it is necessary for self-preservation, so it is completely justified.

[Page]

Easy solution: Don't engage in violence except for self-defence and competition. It's much harder to falsely identify someone as a violent attacker. And no, not every political position has to endorse non-defensive violence. At least, not to a large degree.

Any political position that is statist in nature necessarily endorses non-defensive violence, because these positions cede that the state has moral legitimacy to use violence to enforce its laws.

[Ifreann]

Anti-fascists might wrongly identify someone as a fascist and beat them up. This is true of everyone who engages in any kind of violence, and realistically every political position endorses violence in some circumstances. I'm sure fascists have murdered a lot of people who weren't actually Jews. The army bombs civilians. The police shoot innocent people.

Is there a further point?

Let's set up a group helping to tackle the jihadi problem. As with the fascist problem, the police just aren't doing enough and often tolerate unacceptable behaviour that's somewhere on the spectrum of terror apologetics. We reserve the right to observe on our own terms any of the meetings and rallies where these sorts of people tend to hang out, and shut them down with force if we think anything unacceptable is said.

We might steel-toecap the occasional person who was just trying to pray or speak, but honest guv we're only here to disarm anyone with a Muslamic raygun and everyone makes mistakes.

This is delightful banter and all, but what is your point?

---

About as much as I want to hear about how soy turns people liberal.

We can spend all day about that.

I'm sure you have a very large soy meme folder,

[Ifreann]

Your conclusion would seem not to follow from your premise, and further doesn't substantially respond to my post.

---

There have been several high profile cases of the police shooting dead black men, who were apparently not doing anything wrong, and insisting they were defending themselves.

Defensive violence is still violence.

When did I say that police shooting unarmed people was fine, or that modern society was perfectly non-violent?

You didn't. I'm pointing out that your easy solution will not actually prevent violence being mistargeted.

True, but it is necessary for self-preservation, so it is completely justified.

So you're just agreeing with me that pretty much every political position endorses violence in at least some situations.

[Demopolitania]

A very small number of people who are drawn to white supremacy can be talked back simply by paying attention to them since lack of human contact is what propels many people to cults in the first place. A much, much smaller number can actually be convinced that their beliefs don't make sense. Generally speaking though, they're too far gone to be worth the effort. Trying to reason with a zombie who traded in their free will for an insatiable desire for human flesh is as degrading as it is futile.

Literal Ostracism would be the ideal solution. It originally meant "to send to the East", the word comes from ancient Athens where they considered it integral to the functioning of democracy to periodically exile citizens whom a sufficient quorum had deemed a threat to the social order. We wouldn't have to deal with the stress of constantly keeping them under control if we sent them all to an asteroid, where they could oppress eachother to their heart's content and it wouldn't be our problem since they're essentially wild animals.

So what happens if your guys don't end up in power and you're the one exiled to an asteroid?

A lot of your more intelligent leaders are already talking about relocating voluntarily. Thiel's seasteading and Bezos' Mars base are more or less what I'm talking about. If we got into power we would take a live-and-let-live approach to the ostracised because our culture is based on empathy; I'm not falling for a "free spaceship ride" if it's the other way around. If we built and operated the transportation this might be a solution since it's better to rule in Hell than serve in Heaven but it wouldn't be my first choice because biophilia makes participation in Earth's ecosystems the birthright of the more compassionate faction whereas you guys should get space because you're basically aliens already.