Cutting People Off From Society For Their Politics

[Frievolk]

No. It's their fault for doing it.

With your provocation.

You don't exactly try bullets for homicides, do you?

Doesn't matter if I provoked him. The only scenario where it could be counted as partially my fault (and even then, it'd be partially) would be if I literally opened fire on a fascist first. Which I have, thus far, explicitly said I do not support.

[Petrolheadia]

With your provocation.

You don't exactly try bullets for homicides, do you?

Doesn't matter if I provoked him. The only scenario where it could be counted as partially my fault (and even then, it'd be partially) would be if I literally opened fire on a fascist first. Which I have, thus far, explicitly said I do not support.

If you drive them to the point of opening fire, it is your fault. He shot, but you made him shoot.

[Northeast American Federation]

With your provocation.

You don't exactly try bullets for homicides, do you?

Doesn't matter if I provoked him. The only scenario where it could be counted as partially my fault (and even then, it'd be partially) would be if I literally opened fire on a fascist first. Which I have, thus far, explicitly said I do not support.

I don't see how you leave said fascists any option beyond extreme violence if you're advocating for cutting them out of society, doxxing them(which doesn't do anything unless the intent is for people to go harass and/or physically assault them at their residence), and basically leaving them with nothing to lose. Same goes for any group that you might want to cut out of society altogether for their beliefs. Expecting that to somehow make them less violent and change their minds is unlikely to work the way you think.

[Frievolk]

Doesn't matter if I provoked him. The only scenario where it could be counted as partially my fault (and even then, it'd be partially) would be if I literally opened fire on a fascist first. Which I have, thus far, explicitly said I do not support.

If you drive them to the point of opening fire, it is your fault. He shot, but you made him shoot.

No. It's not my fault. He shot first. Doesn't matter why, and doesn't matter what I did. If he shoots me, I'm the victim. If I provoke him (by any means apart from violence), he's not a victim.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

The only time one should ostracize or punish people for their ideology is when they use said ideology as an excuse to commit violent acts.
And it is on both sides unfortunately.
Yes, there are some Neo Nazi's who commit violent acts, that should be condemned.
But on the other hand, groups like ANTIFA that promote "Bash a Fash" are also committing violent acts, and should also be condemned.

If you condemn one and not the other, you don't have moral high ground.
You simply want the other "side" to shut up.
And there's too many people promoting silencing dissenting opinion nowadays.

(And on a side note, labels like Fascist and Nazi are being thrown around soo much that they are losing their effect, much like the label of socialist and commie a couple decades ago. Used to be, the average American would be appalled to be called a socialist or a commie, and now? Many proudly claim to be one or both, and it barely raises an eyebrow. If labels like Nazi and Fascist are overused to the point of verbal insolvency, than someone in the future claiming to be a Nazi may also barely register a raised eyebrow. There are in America very few true Nazis, no matter what the media says about Nazis around every corner)

I absolutely do have the moral higher ground by hating Nazis and supporting the Antifa. Nazis want to kill almost the majority of the population of the world, for different reasons. Antifa wants to stop the fascists from doing that, at any costs. The Antifa's methods might be dubious on occasions, but they're morally superior to their opposition on principle alone.

The majority of the people Antifa has attacked expressed no desire to kill anyone, let alone the majority of the population. Whatever principles you have mean squat when your action plan based on those principles is to destroy everything you see.

[Petrolheadia]

If you drive them to the point of opening fire, it is your fault. He shot, but you made him shoot.

No. It's not my fault. He shot first. Doesn't matter why, and doesn't matter what I did. If he shoots me, I'm the victim. If I provoke him (by any means apart from violence), he's not a victim.

Well, I guess everybody arrested for bullying to the point of suicide should be acquitted.

Or maybe let's not do that?

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Probably. Unfortunately.

It's more concise than "low-T beta cuck soyboy", I'll give them that, but it's hard to square the idea that we are both hysterical screeching SJWs and also emotionless automata NPCs.

The idea is that an "NPC" is brainless, not so much emotionless.

[Petrolheadia]

It's more concise than "low-T beta cuck soyboy", I'll give them that, but it's hard to square the idea that we are both hysterical screeching SJWs and also emotionless automata NPCs.

The idea is that an "NPC" is brainless, not so much emotionless.

I just realized the irony of accusing your opponents of brainlessness by reposting a meme.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

What I was getting at is that antifa* isn't a group. It isn't an organisation. It isn't a party. It doesn't have a headquarters or a leader or a Twitter page. It's a political philosophy of opposing fascism at all costs.



*Or however you want to capitalise it

Saying "at all costs" is a good way to lose me. The ends never justify the means.

[Northeast American Federation]

What I was getting at is that antifa* isn't a group. It isn't an organisation. It isn't a party. It doesn't have a headquarters or a leader or a Twitter page. It's a political philosophy of opposing fascism at all costs.



*Or however you want to capitalise it

Saying "at all costs" is a good way to lose me. The ends never justify the means.

It's okay because it's for the greater good.

[Frievolk]

I absolutely do have the moral higher ground by hating Nazis and supporting the Antifa. Nazis want to kill almost the majority of the population of the world, for different reasons. Antifa wants to stop the fascists from doing that, at any costs. The Antifa's methods might be dubious on occasions, but they're morally superior to their opposition on principle alone.

The majority of the people Antifa has attacked expressed no desire to kill anyone, let alone the majority of the population. Whatever principles you have mean squat when your action plan based on those principles is to destroy everything you see.

And that still doesn't bring them to the place the fascists have on a scale of morality. It might make them "bad execution for good intentions" (and that is if you can make the argument "hiring fascists as protection while I protest the fact blacks protest police brutality against blacks wouldn't make me a fascist", which you can) but still doesn't bring them to the level of "wants to murder the majority of the population of the earth because he wants a larger living room or thinks they're not human", which is my point.

No. It's not my fault. He shot first. Doesn't matter why, and doesn't matter what I did. If he shoots me, I'm the victim. If I provoke him (by any means apart from violence), he's not a victim.

Well, I guess everybody arrested for bullying to the point of suicide should be acquitted.

Or maybe let's not do that?

I would hope you'd realize that these two scenarios aren't even remotely similar in any way (other than both of them involving a form of violence) but I don't think you actually do.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

The problem isn't opposition to fascism within itself, the problem is that antifa has become so radical that they started attacking and harassing non-fascist civilians in Portland just for trying to go on their daily commute. Do you support actions like that?

I support being antifascist and hitting Fascists, yes. I don't support hitting non-fascists, however.

Apparenty personal beiefs are legitimate grounds for self-defence now. Good to hear you don't support hitting Fascists, you only support hitting Fascists and, according to your previous posts, anyone who refuses to hit Nazis.

[Hammer Britannia]

I support being antifascist and hitting Fascists, yes. I don't support hitting non-fascists, however.

Apparenty personal beiefs are legitimate grounds for self-defence now. Good to hear you don't support hitting Fascists, you only support hitting Fascists and, according to your previous posts, anyone who refuses to hit Nazis.

"Sir, why did you beat this man? He was just casually walking to the store"
"He was a fascist"
"K lol, you're free to go"

Meanwhile..

"Sir, why did you hit this man?"
"He was attacking me sir, I was just walking when he started hitting me."
"What's your political ideology"
"Well, I am a fascist, but-"
"It was self-Defense, you were the aggressor. Guilty as charged"

[Frievolk]

I support being antifascist and hitting Fascists, yes. I don't support hitting non-fascists, however.

Apparenty personal beiefs are legitimate grounds for self-defence now. Good to hear you don't support hitting Fascists, you only support hitting Fascists and, according to your previous posts, anyone who refuses to hit Nazis.

My previous post(s) explicitly said I don't wish to hit fascists myself. However, I don't want others who do that to be stopped, provided non-fascists aren't harmed directly in the crossfire.
Furthermore, I said I wish ostracization of Fascist-sympathizers, not "hitting anyone who doesn't hit fascists". If you think anyone who doesn't hit a fascist is literally a fascist, then I don't know how to argue with that.

[Straite]

All these antifa apologists are disturbing.

When you advocate violence & act violently, almost indiscriminately to any person whose view differs from yours. Painting their character with broad strokes of 'alt-right' or 'fascist' if they support something different from your ideological worldview.

If you actively try to shutdown the speech of others through rioting & violence. (UC Berkely, etc) *You* are the nazi.

And *you* are the people who need to be cut off from society.

[Northeast American Federation]

All these antifa apologists are disturbing.

When you advocate violence & act violently, almost indiscriminately to any person whose view differs from yours. Painting their character with broad strokes of 'alt-right' or 'fascist' if they support something different from your ideological worldview.

If you actively try to shutdown the speech of others through rioting & violence. (UC Berkely, etc) *You* are the nazi.

And *you* are the people who need to be cut off from society.

Whoa ho ho hey, that sounds like fascism to me, bucko. Best watch out for the black bloc around here.

[Hammer Britannia]

All these antifa apologists are disturbing.

When you advocate violence & act violently, almost indiscriminately to any person whose view differs from yours. Painting their character with broad strokes of 'alt-right' or 'fascist' if they support something different from your ideological worldview.

If you actively try to shutdown the speech of others through rioting & violence. (UC Berkely, etc) *You* are the nazi.

And *you* are the people who need to be cut off from society.

B-but I need to strawman people I don't support so I can hit them.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

And you won't make them run away.

What you won't be able to do is stopping them from confronting you when they can and having arguments against them. Or have my support.

Bold of you to assume
1- Fascists have any points to make in an argument.
2- I want to debate fascists
3- I care about having a fascist-sympathizer's support.

1. They have points. Easily refuted and/or meaningless ones, making them very easy to argue against.
2. If you want to punch someone for their beliefs, but do not want to debate them, you are a coward. To punish without intent to rehabilitate is the hallmark malevolence.
3. Thou art a witch!

[Petrolheadia]

Apparenty personal beiefs are legitimate grounds for self-defence now. Good to hear you don't support hitting Fascists, you only support hitting Fascists and, according to your previous posts, anyone who refuses to hit Nazis.

"Sir, why did you beat this man? He was just casually walking to the store"
"He was a fascist"
"K lol, you're free to go"

Meanwhile..

"Sir, why did you hit this man?"
"He was attacking me sir, I was just walking when he started hitting me."
"What's your political ideology"
"Well, I am a fascist, but-"
"It was self-Defense, you were the aggressor. Guilty as charged"

I wanted to upvote, then I realized we are not on Reddit.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Apparenty personal beiefs are legitimate grounds for self-defence now. Good to hear you don't support hitting Fascists, you only support hitting Fascists and, according to your previous posts, anyone who refuses to hit Nazis.

My previous post(s) explicitly said I don't wish to hit fascists myself. However, I don't want others who do that to be stopped, provided non-fascists aren't harmed directly in the crossfire.
Furthermore, I said I wish ostracization of Fascist-sympathizers, not "hitting anyone who doesn't hit fascists". If you think anyone who doesn't hit a fascist is literally a fascist, then I don't know how to argue with that.

If you want Fascists to be hit, as you have said multiple times, but don't want to do it yourself, you are a coward.

No, but apparently ten people having dinner with one Fascist does make them all Fascists. :thonk:

[Frievolk]

My previous post(s) explicitly said I don't wish to hit fascists myself. However, I don't want others who do that to be stopped, provided non-fascists aren't harmed directly in the crossfire.
Furthermore, I said I wish ostracization of Fascist-sympathizers, not "hitting anyone who doesn't hit fascists". If you think anyone who doesn't hit a fascist is literally a fascist, then I don't know how to argue with that.

If you want Fascists to be hit, as you have said multiple times, but don't want to do it yourself, you are a coward.

Correction: I want fascists to be ostracized and excluded from my society. Which is what I've said multiple times (and have been debating in support of this last few pages)
I don't want them to be hit myself. But I don't care for them enough to want them not to be hit either (so I won't stop the person who does want them to be hit)

[Dumb Ideologies]

Truly, there is no need to be concerned about this group of self-appointed political radicals policing who is allowed to protest and speak.

It's one of the great marvels of technological evolution that merely considering oneself part of the non-membership and decentralised anti-organisation known as antifa immediately downloads a radar system into your brain allowing you perfect clarity in locating and identifying fascists. Even better, the system instantly immobilises any ideological adherent who even considers using "fascist" as a snarl to justify beating up people who aren't fascists but they just happen to strongly disagree with.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

The majority of the people Antifa has attacked expressed no desire to kill anyone, let alone the majority of the population. Whatever principles you have mean squat when your action plan based on those principles is to destroy everything you see.

And that still doesn't bring them to the place the fascists have on a scale of morality. It might make them "bad execution for good intentions" (and that is if you can make the argument "hiring fascists as protection while I protest the fact blacks protest police brutality against blacks wouldn't make me a fascist", which you can) but still doesn't bring them to the level of "wants to murder the majority of the population of the earth because he wants a larger living room or thinks they're not human", which is my point.

Well, I guess everybody arrested for bullying to the point of suicide should be acquitted.

Or maybe let's not do that?

I would hope you'd realize that these two scenarios aren't even remotely similar in any way (other than both of them involving a form of violence) but I don't think you actually do.

I think you'll find the amount of "Fascists" who want to murder the majority of the population of the earth is exceptionally low.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Assuming I would be a fascist and not the victim of extremists with cool-sounding buzzwords.

Just letting you know that there's no need to fear anti-fascist violence if you're not a fascist.

Famous last words.

[Hammer Britannia]

And that still doesn't bring them to the place the fascists have on a scale of morality. It might make them "bad execution for good intentions" (and that is if you can make the argument "hiring fascists as protection while I protest the fact blacks protest police brutality against blacks wouldn't make me a fascist", which you can) but still doesn't bring them to the level of "wants to murder the majority of the population of the earth because he wants a larger living room or thinks they're not human", which is my point.


I would hope you'd realize that these two scenarios aren't even remotely similar in any way (other than both of them involving a form of violence) but I don't think you actually do.

I think you'll find the amount of "Fascists" who want to murder the majority of the population of the earth is exceptionally low.

Most of the Fascists I know from personal experience DON'T wanna commit mass genocide either.

Most are Civil Nationalists who just identify as Fascists.