Cutting People Off From Society For Their Politics

[Ifreann]

Why? Fascism should be ostracized (and preferably rooted out of every culture). Anti-fascism should, if anything, be encouraged and supported in every way possible.

The problem isn't opposition to fascism within itself, the problem is that antifa has become so radical that they started attacking and harassing non-fascist civilians in Portland just for trying to go on their daily commute. Do you support actions like that?

"non-fascist civilians"

This is an odd word choice. Like. Everyone involved here is a civilian. Fascists, anti-fascists, everyone else, they're all civilians. There's no need to describe people as civilians when there's no soldiers.

[Potato]

Is cutting people off from society for their politics not what China does currently with that number system thing?

[Petrolheadia]

The problem isn't opposition to fascism within itself, the problem is that antifa has become so radical that they started attacking and harassing non-fascist civilians in Portland just for trying to go on their daily commute. Do you support actions like that?

I support being antifascist and hitting Fascists, yes. I don't support hitting non-fascists, however.

If you think it's OK attacking people for political views, it may be acceptable for me to take a large metal bar to a meeting with you.

[The Grene Knyght]

I wouldn't become friends with someone who would actually murder me the moment they are able to.

As if anybody asks you to...

I mean, the question was "People say that you shouldn't cut people off from society for political reasons, but where is the line drawn?" The answer I gave probably isn't the line, but it is a line. I wouldn't become friends with a nazi because nazis would probably murder me the moment they came in to power. Its a hypothetical situation. Seems odd that you'd pick my answer out in a thread full of people saying what their line would be, but whatever. Maybe you're upset because you don't think I'd be friends with you.

[Petrolheadia]

As if anybody asks you to...

I mean, the question was "People say that you shouldn't cut people off from society for political reasons, but where is the line drawn?" The answer I gave probably isn't the line, but it is a line. I wouldn't become friends with a nazi because nazis would probably murder me the moment they came in to power. Its a hypothetical situation. Seems odd that you'd pick my answer out in a thread full of people saying what their line would be, but whatever. Maybe you're upset because you don't think I'd be friends with you.

I answered because I had the time, the connection and a dumb enough post from you.

Here you have it.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

The problem isn't opposition to fascism within itself, the problem is that antifa has become so radical that they started attacking and harassing non-fascist civilians in Portland just for trying to go on their daily commute. Do you support actions like that?

I support being antifascist and hitting Fascists, yes. I don't support hitting non-fascists, however.

Just so we're clear, there were no Neo-nazis in the area during that incident.

[The Grene Knyght]

I mean, the question was "People say that you shouldn't cut people off from society for political reasons, but where is the line drawn?" The answer I gave probably isn't the line, but it is a line. I wouldn't become friends with a nazi because nazis would probably murder me the moment they came in to power. Its a hypothetical situation. Seems odd that you'd pick my answer out in a thread full of people saying what their line would be, but whatever. Maybe you're upset because you don't think I'd be friends with you.

I answered because I had the time, the connection and a dumb enough post from you.

Here you have it.

Is it really dumb to say I wouldn't be friends with someone who would kill me if they came to power? Seems like a reasonable opinion to hold, as far as ostracising people for their beliefs goes. More reasonable than if I had said I would be friends with someone regardless of whether they would like to see me killed.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

The problem isn't opposition to fascism within itself, the problem is that antifa has become so radical that they started attacking and harassing non-fascist civilians in Portland just for trying to go on their daily commute. Do you support actions like that?

"non-fascist civilians"

This is an odd word choice. Like. Everyone involved here is a civilian. Fascists, anti-fascists, everyone else, they're all civilians. There's no need to describe people as civilians when there's no soldiers.

I said that, so we're clear that your "heroes" attack more than just fascists.

[Petrolheadia]

I answered because I had the time, the connection and a dumb enough post from you.

Here you have it.

Is it really dumb to say I wouldn't be friends with someone who would kill me if they came to power? Seems like a reasonable opinion to hold, as far as ostracising people for their beliefs goes. More reasonable than if I had said I would be friends with someone regardless of whether they would like to see me killed.

It's dumb to go around answering strawman questions.

Also, if you befriend a Nazi, there's one hella chance they'll stop being one.

[Frievolk]

You do realize in this scenario, it's the state essentially making them disenfranchised, right? They do that, they become rebels to the state. Good luck reaching their endgoal then.

Good luck trying to stop them if they get a chance to make a run for it.

See, the problem with rebelling against the State when the general population also hates you is that you won't be able to garner support from the popular base and are essentially on your own.
Also, bold of you to assume I'd give enough shit about Nazis to try and pursue them if they try to "make a run for it". The very goal is to make them run away (or, better yet, stop being Nazis)

[Petrolheadia]

Good luck trying to stop them if they get a chance to make a run for it.

See, the problem with rebelling against the State when the general population also hates you is that you won't be able to garner support from the popular base and are essentially on your own.
Also, bold of you to assume I'd give enough shit about Nazis to try and pursue them if they try to "make a run for it". The very goal is to make them run away (or, better yet, stop being Nazis)

And you won't make them run away.

What you won't be able to do is stopping them from confronting you when they can and having arguments against them. Or have my support.

[The Grene Knyght]

Is it really dumb to say I wouldn't be friends with someone who would kill me if they came to power? Seems like a reasonable opinion to hold, as far as ostracising people for their beliefs goes. More reasonable than if I had said I would be friends with someone regardless of whether they would like to see me killed.

It's dumb to go around answering strawman questions.

Also, if you befriend a Nazi, there's one hella chance they'll stop being one.

I don't think its a strawman at all. I'm not misrepresenting any arguments here, nor am I trying to refute any arguments. I don't think you know what a strawman is.

[Ifreann]

I support being antifascist and hitting Fascists, yes. I don't support hitting non-fascists, however.

If you think it's OK attacking people for political views, it may be acceptable for me to take a large metal bar to a meeting with you.

If, somehow, you were to have the misfortune to become the target of anti-fascist violence, you wouldn't need a metal bar. Renounce fascism and they won't have a problem with you. Stop doing fascist things and they'll leave you alone.

I'm afraid this would not be true if you were to have the much greater misfortune of becoming the target of fascist violence.

[Frievolk]

See, the problem with rebelling against the State when the general population also hates you is that you won't be able to garner support from the popular base and are essentially on your own.
Also, bold of you to assume I'd give enough shit about Nazis to try and pursue them if they try to "make a run for it". The very goal is to make them run away (or, better yet, stop being Nazis)

And you won't make them run away.

What you won't be able to do is stopping them from confronting you when they can and having arguments against them. Or have my support.

Bold of you to assume
1- Fascists have any points to make in an argument.
2- I want to debate fascists
3- I care about having a fascist-sympathizer's support.

[Ifreann]

"non-fascist civilians"

This is an odd word choice. Like. Everyone involved here is a civilian. Fascists, anti-fascists, everyone else, they're all civilians. There's no need to describe people as civilians when there's no soldiers.

I said that, so we're clear that your "heroes" attack more than just fascists.

But the fascists are civilians too. So are the anti-fascists.

[Petrolheadia]

If you think it's OK attacking people for political views, it may be acceptable for me to take a large metal bar to a meeting with you.

If, somehow, you were to have the misfortune to become the target of anti-fascist violence, you wouldn't need a metal bar. Renounce fascism and they won't have a problem with you. Stop doing fascist things and they'll leave you alone.

Assuming I would be a fascist and not the victim of extremists with cool-sounding buzzwords.

And you won't make them run away.

What you won't be able to do is stopping them from confronting you when they can and having arguments against them. Or have my support.

Bold of you to assume
1- Fascists have any points to make in an argument.

☆
Why stop them then?

2- I want to debate fascists

Well, if you don't care about other people, that's kinda assholish.

3- I care about having a fascist-sympathizer's support.

I only want to stop fascists from receiving your dictatorial fantasies. Nothing more than that.

I don't agree to what they say, but they should be able to say it.

[Frievolk]

Bold of you to assume
1- Fascists have any points to make in an argument.

☆
Why stop them then?

2- I want to debate fascists

Well, if you don't care about other people, that's kinda assholish.

3- I care about having a fascist-sympathizer's support.

I only want to stop fascists from receiving your dictatorial fantasies. Nothing more than that.

I don't agree to what they say, but they should be able to say it.

1- Because they want to kill the majority of the population of the earth? It's not really that hard to imagine, the "let's kill the majority of the population of the earth" (which, ironically, we call individual 'minorities') is part of their main points of ideology. I'm not going to give them platform to do that. If they want to be a fascist, fine. They ought to realize that being a fascist is harmful for your civil existence in a society, however. (Note that I don't mean any form of violence to happen on them. It won't help, and it will only help their self-victimization delusion in the long run) but state-sanctioned disenfranchisement? That's fair game. Stop being a fascist, and you'll get to go to your work safely (without a threat of "ok, you want to kill a lot of our customers/your coworkers, you got to go" constantly over your head), you'll get to receive the basic privileges of a person who lives in a society (i.e. emergency services, trade, etc.)
If your ideology is worth more than that? well tough.

2- Yeah. I'm an asshole that way. I don't care to debate with a person who's only point of argument is "you're not human and you deserve to die". You see, I respect my own self more than that. The best they can hope for is me laughing at them and ridiculing them when they spew their bull.

3- And that makes you a fascist sympathizer. Simple as that.

[Petrolheadia]

☆
Why stop them then?

Well, if you don't care about other people, that's kinda assholish.

I only want to stop fascists from receiving your dictatorial fantasies. Nothing more than that.

I don't agree to what they say, but they should be able to say it.

1- Because they want to kill the majority of the population of the earth? It's not really that hard to imagine, the "let's kill the majority of the population of the earth" (which, ironically, we call individual 'minorities') is part of their main points of ideology. I'm not going to give them platform to do that. If they want to be a fascist, fine. They ought to realize that being a fascist is harmful for your civil existence in a society, however. (Note that I don't mean any form of violence to happen on them. It won't help, and it will only help their self-victimization delusion in the long run) but state-sanctioned disenfranchisement? That's fair game. Stop being a fascist, and you'll get to go to your work safely (without a threat of "ok, you want to kill a lot of our customers/your coworkers, you got to go" constantly over your head), you'll get to receive the basic privileges of a person who lives in a society (i.e. emergency services, trade, etc.)
If your ideology is worth more than that? well tough.

So if fascism is so bad,,it should be easy to stop it.

You're making it look like some awesome, unstoppable ideology.

[Northeast American Federation]

If you think it's OK attacking people for political views, it may be acceptable for me to take a large metal bar to a meeting with you.

If, somehow, you were to have the misfortune to become the target of anti-fascist violence, you wouldn't need a metal bar. Renounce fascism and they won't have a problem with you. Stop doing fascist things and they'll leave you alone.

I'm afraid this would not be true if you were to have the much greater misfortune of becoming the target of fascist violence.

You're talking about a group that gets so rabid that they'll attack one of their own for carrying a US flag on grounds that he was a fascist. I don't think trying to be reasonable with such people is going to get anybody anything other than maybe a brick in the face.

[Ifreann]

If, somehow, you were to have the misfortune to become the target of anti-fascist violence, you wouldn't need a metal bar. Renounce fascism and they won't have a problem with you. Stop doing fascist things and they'll leave you alone.

Assuming I would be a fascist and not the victim of extremists with cool-sounding buzzwords.

Just letting you know that there's no need to fear anti-fascist violence if you're not a fascist.

[Frievolk]

1- Because they want to kill the majority of the population of the earth? It's not really that hard to imagine, the "let's kill the majority of the population of the earth" (which, ironically, we call individual 'minorities') is part of their main points of ideology. I'm not going to give them platform to do that. If they want to be a fascist, fine. They ought to realize that being a fascist is harmful for your civil existence in a society, however. (Note that I don't mean any form of violence to happen on them. It won't help, and it will only help their self-victimization delusion in the long run) but state-sanctioned disenfranchisement? That's fair game. Stop being a fascist, and you'll get to go to your work safely (without a threat of "ok, you want to kill a lot of our customers/your coworkers, you got to go" constantly over your head), you'll get to receive the basic privileges of a person who lives in a society (i.e. emergency services, trade, etc.)
If your ideology is worth more than that? well tough.

So if fascism is so bad,,it should be easy to stop it.

You're making it look like some awesome, unstoppable ideology.

You do realize that fascism doesn't get up by "winning debates", right? It gets up by violence. I mean literal violence. beating-people-with-clubs-so-they-don't-vote-for-the-fascist-opposition-via-paramilitary-forces-while-they're-not-in-power-and-forcing-people-into-concentration-camps-for-not-Sieg-Heiling-the-right-way-when-they-are violence.
(That, and "LET'S KILL ALL MINORITIES!" makes a better chant while holding a march than "WHY?" does)

Suggesting fascism has ever won anything by debate -or ever won a debate period- is peak historical revisionism.

[Northeast American Federation]

Assuming I would be a fascist and not the victim of extremists with cool-sounding buzzwords.

Just letting you know that there's no need to fear anti-fascist violence if you're not a fascist.

Everyone who is not a progressive has been getting deemed "fascist." You can say that there's nothing to worry about here, but when the rubber hits the road, Antifa doesn't seem to draw any distinction between people carrying American flags and those who carry swastikas, even though there's a pretty substantial difference between the two groups.

[Trumptonium1]

Assuming I would be a fascist and not the victim of extremists with cool-sounding buzzwords.

Just letting you know that there's no need to fear anti-fascist violence if you're not a fascist.

Have you opened the internet or the news in the last 12 months?

[LiberNovusAmericae]

Assuming I would be a fascist and not the victim of extremists with cool-sounding buzzwords.

Just letting you know that there's no need to fear anti-fascist violence if you're not a fascist.

Tell that to these people then. Civilians simply trying to drive down a road get attacked, and harassed by antifa.

[Ifreann]

If, somehow, you were to have the misfortune to become the target of anti-fascist violence, you wouldn't need a metal bar. Renounce fascism and they won't have a problem with you. Stop doing fascist things and they'll leave you alone.

I'm afraid this would not be true if you were to have the much greater misfortune of becoming the target of fascist violence.

You're talking about a group that gets so rabid that they'll attack one of their own for carrying a US flag on grounds that he was a fascist. I don't think trying to be reasonable with such people is going to get anybody anything other than maybe a brick in the face.

Anti-fascists are just people, they can make mistakes. Consider that the police and military injure and kill many many times more innocent people than anti-fascists ever have or probably ever could. Do you quake in fear when you see a police officer?