Breastfeeding during a flight...

[Des-Bal]

I agree, every passenger bothered by a mother performing such a natural task should have to pay $10.

Also anyone bothered by masturbation or shitting in the aisles. They're both totally natural things.

[Kannap]

I agree, every passenger bothered by a mother performing such a natural task should have to pay $10.

Also anyone bothered by masturbation or shitting in the aisles. They're both totally natural things.

Bad comparisons, truly. Masturbation is something that you don't absolutely have to do - it's something you want to do.

Taking a shit is perfectly natural, yes, but there's a place for you to do that - the airplane bathroom. That cramped, uncomfortable, tiny closet is your place to relieve yourself - you could probably masturbate in there too if your heart desires.

If you want women to hide themselves away while their breastfeeding, feel free to give them the space to do so. I've never tried to breastfeed a baby because, well, I'm a dude and that wouldn't work out, but I imagine it's difficult or near impossible to do in such a cramped space as an airplane toilet. There's no reason that a mother shouldn't be able to nurse her child in an airplane - or any public place for that matter. But I'm sure I'm biased in my opinions since I've been working in a nursery with babies for about half a year now.

[Des-Bal]

Bad comparisons, truly. Masturbation is something that you don't absolutely have to do - it's something you want to do.

Taking a shit is perfectly natural, yes, but there's a place for you to do that - the airplane bathroom. That cramped, uncomfortable, tiny closet is your place to relieve yourself - you could probably masturbate in there too if your heart desires.

If you want women to hide themselves away while their breastfeeding, feel free to give them the space to do so. I've never tried to breastfeed a baby because, well, I'm a dude and that wouldn't work out, but I imagine it's difficult or near impossible to do in such a cramped space as an airplane toilet. There's no reason that a mother shouldn't be able to nurse her child in an airplane - or any public place for that matter. But I'm sure I'm biased in my opinions since I've been working in a nursery with babies for about half a year now.

And much the same of breastfeeding on an airplane. Give em a bottle.

I'm not that bothered by someone quietly breastfeeding but I'll note that there are people in this thread objecting to expecting mothers to cover up on planes. Again, I personally don't care that much but if people are bothered they're bothered. If people are flying or eating or waiting in line and they are unhappy about someone breastfeeding openly then dismissing their feelings doesn't actually change the balance of things.

[Jebslund]

NEEDS. The NEEDS of the many. Not the WANTS. WANTS are optional. If you don't get what you *want*, oh fucking well. You are not entitled to your wants. And no where was "grow up" substituted for an argument. It was an instruction, not a refutation. You are acting like a petulant child who doesn't yet understand the difference between needs and wants.

And your refusal to prepare does not constitute an entitlement to compensation. Otherwise, the power company would owe lost wages to people every time an outage knocks out their clocks and causes their alarms to not go off, resulting in the people who don't have at least one that needs no working outlet missing work, and road crews owe lost wages to anyone who can't plan for heavy traffic (and gas to those who have to detour). Someone doing what needs be done owes no one compensation, nor do they owe for things happening as a result unless there was negligence or malfeasance on their part. The fact that you think it does mean you are owed compensation illustrates exactly the sort of selfishness my generation gets accused of.

As for what you'd pay,that's cute, but it means fuck-all. Ain't your baby, ain't your responsibility to care for the baby, ain't your decision.

The comfort of others does not get a say in how or when the baby gets fed. Your discomfort is your own problem. You are not being harmed in any way. It is not a personal attack on you. Deal with it, instead of childishly demanding parents leave their kids at home or never travel because you can't put up with a little noise (*you* don't even get the lovely sensory issues with it.).

Yeah and if you had to shell out a ten spot every time your baby bothered someone on a plane you'd probably find that what you're describing as a "need" is in fact a "want."

I'm not talking about a cause of action I'm talking about assigning a dollar value to the inconvenience imposed upon hundreds of people.

It's not my baby and I don't see why I should be inconvenienced by it without that tenner going in my pocket.

Comfort absolutely should have a say, imposing upon the comfort of others is creating their problems. It's not a personal attack, it's more like a bomb in a crowded thoroughfare effecting whoever happens to be nearby.

First and foremost: No, being able to get to where you're going in a timely and affordable manner is not a "want". A parent bringing their child with them when they go somewhere for days, months, or even years at a time is not a "want". Your desire for quiet is a "want". Your desire not to have to deal with children is a "want". Your life is not going to change in any significant way by having to put up with noise (which makes me wonder if you try to demand money from people who talk too loud, too). A baby needs its mother whenever feasible. The realities of the modern world are such that it is not feasible to go everywhere distant by train or boat.

Second, you are talking about demanding money because you are too self-important and lazy to not prepare yourself for a known possibility. Parents prepare by making sure milk, pacifiers, toys, blankets, clean diapers, wipes, etc., are all available to quickly calm a crying child. Who the hell are you to think you should never have to prepare for something you know is highly likely. Do you not wear a seatbelt for something far less likely? Do you not get flu shots for something more likely? Do you not lock your doors for something far less likely? Why, then, do you think you should get to demand compensation when you failed to prepare this time? Do you sue the city for not being entirely indoors because you decided you shouldn't have to buy an umbrella or coat to keep you dry on a rainy day? Do you demand compensation from a store because you got sick after using their restroom because you refused to wash your hands? Do you demand that a meatpacking plant pay your hospital bills because you did not believe you should have to be inconvenienced by having to cook the raw meat you bought from them and got food poisoning?

Third, that is an incredibly childish argument. "I shouldn't have to be inconvenienced in a public place because it's not my child!". They didn't go to your house and make their kid cry. They were on a public mode of mass transport. You don't have any right to not be inconvenienced. There was no neglect or malfeasance, no actual harm was done, so you are owed no compensation.

Finally, no, it really shouldn't. If the breastfeeding bothers you, look away. If the baby cries, put in some earphones/earplugs. Don't bitch like a petulant child because you don't get to have a silent atmosphere in a public area. You have things you can do to mitigate the inconvenience. Choosing to ignore those and be inconvenienced is like rolling around in mud and crying because you're filthy.

[Kannap]

Bad comparisons, truly. Masturbation is something that you don't absolutely have to do - it's something you want to do.

Taking a shit is perfectly natural, yes, but there's a place for you to do that - the airplane bathroom. That cramped, uncomfortable, tiny closet is your place to relieve yourself - you could probably masturbate in there too if your heart desires.

If you want women to hide themselves away while their breastfeeding, feel free to give them the space to do so. I've never tried to breastfeed a baby because, well, I'm a dude and that wouldn't work out, but I imagine it's difficult or near impossible to do in such a cramped space as an airplane toilet. There's no reason that a mother shouldn't be able to nurse her child in an airplane - or any public place for that matter. But I'm sure I'm biased in my opinions since I've been working in a nursery with babies for about half a year now.

And much the same of breastfeeding on an airplane. Give em a bottle.

Maybe they used the bottle they packed earlier. Got no bottle on you? Good think you have milk easily accessible for the baby on your person.

I'm not that bothered by someone quietly breastfeeding but I'll note that there are people in this thread objecting to expecting mothers to cover up on planes. Again, I personally don't care that much but if people are bothered they're bothered. If people are flying or eating or waiting in line and they are unhappy about someone breastfeeding openly then dismissing their feelings doesn't actually change the balance of things.

Simple: Don't look. If it bothers you, don't look. If you don't want to see a mother breastfeeding, don't look. If you don't want to see a mother or father changing their baby on the changing table in the bathroom, don't look. If you don't want to hear a baby crying, put earbuds in your ears. You were a baby once, as was everybody. Babies exist, get over it. Plain and simple.

[Scomagia]

"Don't bother"? You don't know the first thing about children, do you? Some babies will simply not latch onto a bottle. It isn't simply a matter of not "bothering".

Covering is fine and, in fact, what women typically do. You need to learn that your discomfort isn't a good reason to inconvenience others, though. Grow up.

I know enough to say comfortably that when things "simply don't" happen it's generally the result of someone not knowing or caring to learn what to do.

You need to learn that saying "Grow up" adds little weight to an argument that consists of "one inconveniencing many is better than many inconveniencing one."

If you get scared or uncomfortable by a baby having lunch, this is more of a you problem, and should be worked out on your own time.

I don't give a fuck but if multiple people are bothered by something one person is doing it is on that person to address the problem and not everyone else.

NEEDS. The NEEDS of the many. Not the WANTS. WANTS are optional. If you don't get what you *want*, oh fucking well. You are not entitled to your wants. And no where was "grow up" substituted for an argument. It was an instruction, not a refutation. You are acting like a petulant child who doesn't yet understand the difference between needs and wants.

And your refusal to prepare does not constitute an entitlement to compensation. Otherwise, the power company would owe lost wages to people every time an outage knocks out their clocks and causes their alarms to not go off, resulting in the people who don't have at least one that needs no working outlet missing work, and road crews owe lost wages to anyone who can't plan for heavy traffic (and gas to those who have to detour). Someone doing what needs be done owes no one compensation, nor do they owe for things happening as a result unless there was negligence or malfeasance on their part. The fact that you think it does mean you are owed compensation illustrates exactly the sort of selfishness my generation gets accused of.

As for what you'd pay,that's cute, but it means fuck-all. Ain't your baby, ain't your responsibility to care for the baby, ain't your decision.

The comfort of others does not get a say in how or when the baby gets fed. Your discomfort is your own problem. You are not being harmed in any way. It is not a personal attack on you. Deal with it, instead of childishly demanding parents leave their kids at home or never travel because you can't put up with a little noise (*you* don't even get the lovely sensory issues with it.).

Yeah and if you had to shell out a ten spot every time your baby bothered someone on a plane you'd probably find that what you're describing as a "need" is in fact a "want."

I'm not talking about a cause of action I'm talking about assigning a dollar value to the inconvenience imposed upon hundreds of people.

It's not my baby and I don't see why I should be inconvenienced by it without that tenner going in my pocket.

Comfort absolutely should have a say, imposing upon the comfort of others is creating their problems. It's not a personal attack, it's more like a bomb in a crowded thoroughfare effecting whoever happens to be nearby.

So you don't know anything about children. Good to know, buddy. Maybe keep your uneducated opinion to yourself.

[Scomagia]

Bad comparisons, truly. Masturbation is something that you don't absolutely have to do - it's something you want to do.

Taking a shit is perfectly natural, yes, but there's a place for you to do that - the airplane bathroom. That cramped, uncomfortable, tiny closet is your place to relieve yourself - you could probably masturbate in there too if your heart desires.

If you want women to hide themselves away while their breastfeeding, feel free to give them the space to do so. I've never tried to breastfeed a baby because, well, I'm a dude and that wouldn't work out, but I imagine it's difficult or near impossible to do in such a cramped space as an airplane toilet. There's no reason that a mother shouldn't be able to nurse her child in an airplane - or any public place for that matter. But I'm sure I'm biased in my opinions since I've been working in a nursery with babies for about half a year now.

And much the same of breastfeeding on an airplane. Give em a bottle.

I'm not that bothered by someone quietly breastfeeding but I'll note that there are people in this thread objecting to expecting mothers to cover up on planes. Again, I personally don't care that much but if people are bothered they're bothered. If people are flying or eating or waiting in line and they are unhappy about someone breastfeeding openly then dismissing their feelings doesn't actually change the balance of things.

Again, it isn't that simple. Stop talking about things you know fuck all about.

[Farnhamia]

And much the same of breastfeeding on an airplane. Give em a bottle.

I'm not that bothered by someone quietly breastfeeding but I'll note that there are people in this thread objecting to expecting mothers to cover up on planes. Again, I personally don't care that much but if people are bothered they're bothered. If people are flying or eating or waiting in line and they are unhappy about someone breastfeeding openly then dismissing their feelings doesn't actually change the balance of things.

Again, it isn't that simple. Stop talking about things you know fuck all about.

As your friendly neighborhood Mod, may I suggest that you not let this get under your skin?

[New haven america]

If you get scared or uncomfortable by a baby having lunch, this is more of a you problem, and should be worked out on your own time.

I don't give a fuck but if multiple people are bothered by something one person is doing it is on that person to address the problem and not everyone else.

Got it, you're a grown man who's scared of boobs.

[Kannap]

Wait am I biased because I work with babies and infants in a nursery where mothers stop and take time to breastfeed before/after they drop off/pick up their children or am I biased because I'm gay and don't see boobs as sexual objects?

[Des-Bal]

First and foremost: No, being able to get to where you're going in a timely and affordable manner is not a "want". A parent bringing their child with them when they go somewhere for days, months, or even years at a time is not a "want". Your desire for quiet is a "want". Your desire not to have to deal with children is a "want". Your life is not going to change in any significant way by having to put up with noise (which makes me wonder if you try to demand money from people who talk too loud, too). A baby needs its mother whenever feasible. The realities of the modern world are such that it is not feasible to go everywhere distant by train or boat.

Second, you are talking about demanding money because you are too self-important and lazy to not prepare yourself for a known possibility. Parents prepare by making sure milk, pacifiers, toys, blankets, clean diapers, wipes, etc., are all available to quickly calm a crying child. Who the hell are you to think you should never have to prepare for something you know is highly likely. Do you not wear a seatbelt for something far less likely? Do you not get flu shots for something more likely? Do you not lock your doors for something far less likely? Why, then, do you think you should get to demand compensation when you failed to prepare this time? Do you sue the city for not being entirely indoors because you decided you shouldn't have to buy an umbrella or coat to keep you dry on a rainy day? Do you demand compensation from a store because you got sick after using their restroom because you refused to wash your hands? Do you demand that a meatpacking plant pay your hospital bills because you did not believe you should have to be inconvenienced by having to cook the raw meat you bought from them and got food poisoning?

Third, that is an incredibly childish argument. "I shouldn't have to be inconvenienced in a public place because it's not my child!". They didn't go to your house and make their kid cry. They were on a public mode of mass transport. You don't have any right to not be inconvenienced. There was no neglect or malfeasance, no actual harm was done, so you are owed no compensation.

Finally, no, it really shouldn't. If the breastfeeding bothers you, look away. If the baby cries, put in some earphones/earplugs. Don't bitch like a petulant child because you don't get to have a silent atmosphere in a public area. You have things you can do to mitigate the inconvenience. Choosing to ignore those and be inconvenienced is like rolling around in mud and crying because you're filthy.

I'm sorry food, water, air travel- these are needs? A baby crying is a uniquely awful thing I don't think a corrective fine is necessary for just talking loudly.

If those parents can show they adequately prepared I'd drop the amount I expect at the end of the flight all the way down to $2.

I'll note once again that all of your examples involve a ridiculous person expecting everyone else to moderate their behavior because that is insane. Sadly in the actual situation you're on the other side.

There's nothing childish about it. It's not my kid so I don't have the option of raising it correctly or shutting it up so when it becomes my problem it's entirely the result of someone elses actions.

I'm prepared to mitigate, that's part of the reason I don't want the $12+lost value.

[Jabberwocky]

What a bunch of crybabies. They're just boobs. Get over it. Women, you are free to breastfeed on my airline.

[Des-Bal]

So you don't know anything about children. Good to know, buddy. Maybe keep your uneducated opinion to yourself.

I know quite a bit about children, I've worked with them it's a big part of why I don't like them.

Got it, you're a grown man who's scared of boobs.

How does "I don't give a fuck" translate into "I am afraid of boobs?" I've never really been bothered by people breastfeeding but if someone is I don't see why that should be written off.

[Scomagia]

Again, it isn't that simple. Stop talking about things you know fuck all about.

As your friendly neighborhood Mod, may I suggest that you not let this get under your skin?

It hasn't, really. I appreciate the suggestion, though.

[New haven america]

Wait am I biased because I work with babies and infants in a nursery where mothers stop and take time to breastfeed before/after they drop off/pick up their children or am I biased because I'm gay and don't see boobs as sexual objects?

I'd say a little bit of both.

A lot of people don't like women breastfeeding in public because they associate breasts first and foremost with sex, instead of their biological purpose of, y'know, feeding babies. So it makes them uncomfortable.

[Des-Bal]

Again, it isn't that simple. Stop talking about things you know fuck all about.

Why don't you educate me? What percentage of babies are totally and utterly unwilling to touch a bottle despite the persistent best efforts of an educated and competent person?

[Kannap]

I'm sorry food, water, air travel- these are needs?

Food and water, yes. Air travel is a convenience, mainly. More convenient way to travel than by bus, or by car, or by walking.

A baby crying is a uniquely awful thing I don't think a corrective fine is necessary for just talking loudly.

A baby crying is a uniquely beautiful thing - that is the language of a baby. They've yet to learn to speak a proper language so they communicate that they need something via crying.

If those parents can show they adequately prepared I'd drop the amount I expect at the end of the flight all the way down to $2.

A mother is adequately prepared to feed her baby via the methods biology and evolution have granted her. Sorry if they don't fit your ideal terms or convenience. Evolution hardly cares about what makes you comfortable, it cares about what keeps your species alive.

I'll note once again that all of your examples involve a ridiculous person expecting everyone else to moderate their behavior because that is insane. Sadly in the actual situation you're on the other side.

"A ridiculous person expecting everyone else to moderate their behavior because that is insane." Yes, I too would rather the mother just neglect her child rather than take care of them because doing that makes me feel icky

There's nothing childish about it. It's not my kid so I don't have the option of raising it correctly or shutting it up so when it becomes my problem it's entirely the result of someone elses actions.

But the solution to "shutting it up" seems to be something you're taking issue with.

[Kannap]

Wait am I biased because I work with babies and infants in a nursery where mothers stop and take time to breastfeed before/after they drop off/pick up their children or am I biased because I'm gay and don't see boobs as sexual objects?

I'd say a little bit of both.

A lot of people don't like women breastfeeding in public because they associate breasts first and foremost with sex, instead of their biological purpose of, y'know, feeding babies. So it makes them uncomfortable.

Ah yes, they provide sexual pleasure so they must not be useful for anything else.

[Kannap]

Again, it isn't that simple. Stop talking about things you know fuck all about.

Why don't you educate me? What percentage of babies are totally and utterly unwilling to touch a bottle despite the persistent best efforts of an educated and competent person?

You must be fun at baby showers.

[New haven america]

So you don't know anything about children. Good to know, buddy. Maybe keep your uneducated opinion to yourself.

I know quite a bit about children, I've worked with them it's a big part of why I don't like them.

Got it, you're a grown man who's scared of boobs.

How does "I don't give a fuck" translate into "I am afraid of boobs?" I've never really been bothered by people breastfeeding but if someone is I don't see why that should be written off.

Your posts in this thread say differently.

[Des-Bal]

Food and water, yes. Air travel is a convenience, mainly. More convenient way to travel than by bus, or by car, or by walking.


A baby crying is a uniquely beautiful thing - that is the language of a baby. They've yet to learn to speak a proper language so they communicate that they need something via crying.

A mother is adequately prepared to feed her baby via the methods biology and evolution have granted her. Sorry if they don't fit your ideal terms or convenience. Evolution hardly cares about what makes you comfortable, it cares about what keeps your species alive.

"A ridiculous person expecting everyone else to moderate their behavior because that is insane." Yes, I too would rather the mother just neglect her child rather than take care of them because doing that makes me feel icky

But the solution to "shutting it up" seems to be something you're taking issue with.

So we're talking about convenience and not needs.

Also with a bottle. Or under a tarp.

A baby crying is evolution's best effort in the most annoying sound contest. It is by design a horrible and distressing noise.

Or give it a bottle, or feed it under a tarp.

[New haven america]

I'd say a little bit of both.

A lot of people don't like women breastfeeding in public because they associate breasts first and foremost with sex, instead of their biological purpose of, y'know, feeding babies. So it makes them uncomfortable.

Ah yes, they provide sexual pleasure so they must not be useful for anything else.

Exactly.

And as we know, especially in puritan founded America, sex is bad and needs to be shunned at all instances, which is where we get people losing their minds over babies having a meal.

[Des-Bal]

You must be fun at baby showers.

I show up vaguely drunk hand over an envelope full of cash and leave after a few minutes.

Your posts in this thread say differently.

Point to them.

[Jebslund]

I'm sorry food, water, air travel- these are needs? A baby crying is a uniquely awful thing I don't think a corrective fine is necessary for just talking loudly.

Getting six months off for a two-week trip to Ireland isn't feasible. The trip itself may be a want, but going by air is necessary for that to be cost effective.

On a more practical note, one does not typically get to tell their job, "I need an extra three days time to go to the East Coast for that job you need me to start on in two weeks." when one must move because they have been transferred by the company they work for. Asking for months extra to go by boat when transferred to another country is even more unfeasible. This isn't even factoring in what it'd do to moving expenses.

If those parents can show they adequately prepared I'd drop the amount I expect at the end of the flight all the way down to $2.

You didn't prepare. You are not entitled to compensation.

I'll note once again that all of your examples involve a ridiculous person expecting everyone else to moderate their behavior because that is insane. Sadly in the actual situation you're on the other side.

Your demand for compensation is equally ridiculous. That's the point. You are expecting others to pay for you to prepare for a risk you willingly took. Should I compare it with you demanding compensation from a casino because you lost the bet you made there? It's public transportation, not your own private line. There is no expectation of nobody annoying or inconveniencing you.

There's nothing childish about it. It's not my kid so I don't have the option of raising it correctly or shutting it up so when it becomes my problem it's entirely the result of someone elses actions.

"It's not MY fault I have options and don't want to take them! It's not MY fault I chose public transport and not private charter! It's not MY fault I want a free, effortless solution! I should be compensated for a minor annoyance!".

Sounds like a whiny brat to me.

I'm prepared to mitigate, that's part of the reason I don't want the $12+lost value.

Tough shit. You don't get compensation from the city because you had to buy an umbrella to avoid the rain due to the city not being built entirely indoors. You don't get to demand compensation from DeWalt because you had to buy eye and ear protection to avoid damage to your eyes and ears from a chop saw you bought from them. Same thing with parents on public transport. You're the one with the problem. You're the one who had to solve it. Your loss. The product, public transportation, worked as advertised (you were never promised a quiet flight). Caveat emptor. You want the right to a quiet flight? Charter a private plane. Your problem, you use your resources to solve it.

Or give it a bottle, or feed it under a tarp.

Or you could just not look. I mean, I have no trouble not looking, but, then again, I am above-average in terms of intelligence, so maybe the resultant self-control and ownership of my problem just my superpower.

[New haven america]

You must be fun at baby showers.

I show up vaguely drunk hand over an envelope full of cash and leave after a few minutes.

Your posts in this thread say differently.

Point to them.

All of your posts within the thread starting at page 8.