NationStates

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_vivC7c_1k

So apparently tipping used to be considered a bribe for better service than everyone else, and it only became normalized during the prohibition era when businesses resorted to it as a last-ditch means to stay open.

I'm not too surprised. The entire concept of leaving it up to the consumer to determine how much money an employee makes is only going to fleece those who care the most, leaving them with less money than those who care the least. Everyone should be skeptical of a custom that results in that.

Also, if waiters and cooks don't make enough money, isn't that what the minimum wage is for? If it's too low, raise it. If it's inadequately enforced, enforce it. There ought to be a law that any business proven to underpay workers has all its assets seized.

In the meantime, how do we phase out the custom of tipping without harming employees in the process?

EDIT: Poll created by request of NS Miami Shores...

EDIT again: It has been brought to my attention that due to the mutually exclusive nature of some pairs of options, it might be better to list options as combinations of options in the previous version of the poll. To include the issue of taxes on tips would bring it up to 7 options (only the last of the four doesn't break down to 2 further options because of it) so I've decided to omit it for simplicity's sake.

We could do it by allowing the workers to run the restaurants, instead of the capitalists. Maybe not the answer you were looking for, but is one possible way of ensuring the workers get the pay they deserve.

Post War America wrote:We could do it by allowing the workers to run the restaurants, instead of the capitalists. Maybe not the answer you were looking for, but is one possible way of ensuring the workers get the pay they deserve.

huh?

Simple.
Pay the workers better.
Then we don’t need tips.

You do what most other countries do and pay the workers a regular wage.

Uxupox wrote:

Post War America wrote:We could do it by allowing the workers to run the restaurants, instead of the capitalists. Maybe not the answer you were looking for, but is one possible way of ensuring the workers get the pay they deserve.

huh?

If the workers work for themselves instead of for a capitalist, they will be able to earn the full value of their labor instead of losing a significant chunk of it to ensure the capitalist scalps profits.

We can’t until restaurants begin to take the step themselves to say,”we do not do tips here, but we will pay you a livable wage”

Post War America wrote:

Uxupox wrote:
huh?

If the workers work for themselves instead of for a capitalist, they will be able to earn the full value of their labor instead of losing a significant chunk of it to ensure the capitalist scalps profits.

Isn't that just making up your own restaurant and thus become an entrepreneur?

Post War America wrote:

Uxupox wrote:
huh?

If the workers work for themselves instead of for a capitalist, they will be able to earn the full value of their labor instead of losing a significant chunk of it to ensure the capitalist scalps profits.

That’s.... that’s not... eh.

Olerand wrote:You do what most other countries do and pay the workers a regular wage.

Yeah, this.

However, I don’t think that tipping should be abolished entirely. I don’t think it should be required, but if you want to tip someone for providing really good service you should be able to. And then even if you don’t, they’re still making money overall.

Just a thought: but maybe actually paying them decently?

Barboneia wrote:

Olerand wrote:You do what most other countries do and pay the workers a regular wage.

Yeah, this.

However, I don’t think that tipping should be abolished entirely. I don’t think it should be required, but if you want to tip someone for providing really good service you should be able to. And then even if you don’t, they’re still making money overall.

Tipping is a cultural thing at this point, even if servers got paid a living wage, people would still be likely to tip them on top of that for a good while.

Give the waiters an hourly wage. Adjust it to some of what tips they were getting.

Barboneia wrote:

Olerand wrote:You do what most other countries do and pay the workers a regular wage.

Yeah, this.

However, I don’t think that tipping should be abolished entirely. I don’t think it should be required, but if you want to tip someone for providing really good service you should be able to. And then even if you don’t, they’re still making money overall.

Which is the case everywhere else. It's not the norm to tip, but no one is stopping you. Except, I am told (I don't know if this is true), Japan, where it is insulting to tip or something.

Uxupox wrote:

Post War America wrote:
If the workers work for themselves instead of for a capitalist, they will be able to earn the full value of their labor instead of losing a significant chunk of it to ensure the capitalist scalps profits.

Isn't that just making up your own restaurant and thus become an entrepreneur?

Not quite, it'd be more like forming a cooperative, which operates slightly differently in a Capitalist or Market Socialist economic system than a privately owned business. Basically the workers will run the business without an an actual owner, with the collective body of the workforce effectively stepping in to run the administrative aspects of the business, make the decisions. What this should mean in effect, is that instead of turning over profits to someone who just handles those aspects of managing a business, they'd instead be able to ensure that they could make a living wage by setting prices at the value of their labor, which is where the market part comes in in that they wouldn't really be able to set prices too far outside the norm if they'd want any hope of competing.

Olerand wrote:

Barboneia wrote:Yeah, this.

However, I don’t think that tipping should be abolished entirely. I don’t think it should be required, but if you want to tip someone for providing really good service you should be able to. And then even if you don’t, they’re still making money overall.

Which is the case everywhere else. It's not the norm to tip, but no one is stopping you. Except, I am told (I don't know if this is true), Japan, where it is insulting to tip or something.

I was under the impression it was impolite to tip wherever tipping isn't common.

Only when the restaurants and the employers pay the servers instead of making them rely on the tips.

I have never got into tipping, but that's because of cultural difference, i.e. little to no restaurants in Singapore does that, let alone you can ask the customer to tip. (There is a 10% service charge, but that's it.)

The concept of tipping is lost when I am expected to pay 25-35% extra of the bill to tip, when the tip itself is meant for exceptional services.

Olerand wrote:

Barboneia wrote:Yeah, this.

However, I don’t think that tipping should be abolished entirely. I don’t think it should be required, but if you want to tip someone for providing really good service you should be able to. And then even if you don’t, they’re still making money overall.

Which is the case everywhere else. It's not the norm to tip, but no one is stopping you. Except, I am told (I don't know if this is true), Japan, where it is insulting to tip or something.

It is seen as a bribe in Japanese which is considered offensive.

Valrifell wrote:

Olerand wrote:Which is the case everywhere else. It's not the norm to tip, but no one is stopping you. Except, I am told (I don't know if this is true), Japan, where it is insulting to tip or something.

I was under the impression it was impolite to tip wherever tipping isn't common.

No in Japan it’s seen as wrong to to accept a tip
Elsewhere it’s wierd but they’ll take it

How about the radical idea of paying them a decent regular wage.

Post War America wrote:

Uxupox wrote:
Isn't that just making up your own restaurant and thus become an entrepreneur?

Not quite, it'd be more like forming a cooperative, which operates slightly differently in a Capitalist or Market Socialist economic system than a privately owned business. Basically the workers will run the business without an an actual owner, with the collective body of the workforce effectively stepping in to run the administrative aspects of the business, make the decisions. What this should mean in effect, is that instead of turning over profits to someone who just handles those aspects of managing a business, they'd instead be able to ensure that they could make a living wage by setting prices at the value of their labor, which is where the market part comes in in that they wouldn't really be able to set prices too far outside the norm if they'd want any hope of competing.

There are plenty of barbers out there that get payed thousands of USD for the simple reasoning of exposure of the client. A restaurant under a cooperative system may in hindsight do the same and in fact does happen quite often.

The Huskar Social Union wrote:How about the radical idea of paying them a decent regular wage.

I'm not sue that's a radical idea tho... especially when I suggested the formation of a worker's coop.

The Huskar Social Union wrote:How about the radical idea of paying them a decent regular wage.

*mind explodes*

I CAN'T BELIEVE IT!


I THOUGHT PAYING PEOPLE DECENTLY WAS COMMUNISM!

The South Falls wrote:

The Huskar Social Union wrote:How about the radical idea of paying them a decent regular wage.

*mind explodes*

I CAN'T BELIEVE IT!


I THOUGHT PAYING PEOPLE DECENTLY WAS COMMUNISM!

Freaking Capitalism, Ho!

(And a disclaimer that I'm not calling you a Ho. It's a reference.)

The South Falls wrote:

The Huskar Social Union wrote:How about the radical idea of paying them a decent regular wage.

*mind explodes*

I CAN'T BELIEVE IT!


I THOUGHT PAYING PEOPLE DECENTLY WAS COMMUNISM!

Indeed, anything less than allowing the "job creators" absolute freedom is Communism, which is why it begs the question. Why is Communism a bad thing?