How do we abolish tipping without harming employees?

[Genivaria]

Raise the minimum wage and abolish the tipping loophole that allows companies to pay tipped employees less then minimum wage.
Also while we're at it reduce the work we to 4 days.

[Scarast]

Just let the free market do its job, if a restaurant doesn't pay people enough or give enough benefits, workers will leave, people will realize they're underpaying their workers and stop eating there and so workers will be paid the amount they should be receiving for the amount of work they do.

[The South Falls]

Just fire any waiters who receive tips. Those who will stay will happily say that they are not being harmed and happy.

So, just fire everybody.

[The South Falls]

Just let the free market do its job, if a restaurant doesn't pay people enough or give enough benefits, workers will leave, people will realize they're underpaying their workers and stop eating there and so workers will be paid the amount they should be receiving for the amount of work they do.

People eat at McD's. They buy from clothing brands that use sweatshops. Not how the free market works.

[Kannap]

How about the businesses they work for actually pay their wages instead of expecting the costumers to pay their wages.

[Jakker]

Man, you edgy teens and SJW college students should:

1. Get laid
2. Get a life
3. Get jobs.

Personal attacks like that are against forum rules. You can express your opinion without going after the posters. Furthermore, this post did not contribute to the topic at hand and was simply to flamebait. Unofficial warning for flamebaiting.

[Kannap]

Abolish money.

Reinstating a bartering system? I like it.

[Saiwania]

The way I see it, what you ask for is impossible. Obviously, someone will wind up getting paid less if tipping is abolished.

The pay situation will improve for people who don't want to be at the mercy of individual customers (who often don't tip because they're too cheap) but there will wind up being less pay for people who for one reason or another, are just really skilled at driving up sales or convincing people to fork over more money to them.

If they're paid the same hourly rate as other employees, of course they'll get less money than before, unless they can switch to a better paying job.

[Kannap]

Just fire any waiters who receive tips. Those who will stay will happily say that they are not being harmed and happy.

This backfires when every waiter you get intentionally ignores you the whole time, doesn't refill your drinks, only appears to initially take your order, later deliver your food, and later bring your bill. Intentionally brings your food out half an hour after it was cooked so it's cold. All in the name of trying his hardest to not get a tip because he'll be fired if he does.

[Scarast]

Just let the free market do its job, if a restaurant doesn't pay people enough or give enough benefits, workers will leave, people will realize they're underpaying their workers and stop eating there and so workers will be paid the amount they should be receiving for the amount of work they do.

People eat at McD's. They buy from clothing brands that use sweatshops. Not how the free market works.

I wouldn't call that "Free Market" as they are exploiting a poorer country with people who have nothing other to do than to survive. That's just taking over.
Also for McDonalds, I'm going to assume you're talking about how they should "pay a living wage" of 15/hour, which is absurdly high (nearly doubling the worker costs), and what will happen to the workers who just got their new paycheck? Laid off, because an automated system would be more profitable. It'd be like this:
Worker 1,2,3 and 4 all get paid 7.5/hour, manager gets paid 15/hour (as an example)
Minimum wage gets kicked up to 15/hour
What should the place do?
Option A: Keep the workers, run out of money
Option B: Lay two off, keep your manager who now works at 20/hr and have someone come around every time the server machine breaks.
If I wasted my time saying that, please tell me haha

[Jebslund]

Just let the free market do its job, if a restaurant doesn't pay people enough or give enough benefits, workers will leave, people will realize they're underpaying their workers and stop eating there and so workers will be paid the amount they should be receiving for the amount of work they do.

The free market has never self-regulated. NEVER. The reason every civilised country in the world has regulations is because greed always wins out over right when money is involved. That line is nothing more than a shameless manipulation of the sensibilities of moralistic optimists to use their belief in the good in everyone to get them to support corporate greed. The majority of consumers simply don't care as long as they get to save a few bucks (or be told that they're saving a few bucks even as prices continue to rise regardless).

[Saiwania]

Raise the minimum wage and abolish the tipping loophole that allows companies to pay tipped employees less then minimum wage.
Also while we're at it reduce the work we to 4 days.

Every single increase in minimum wage, is correlated with more unemployment. And a minimum wage will never be good for forever, because of inflation. The root problem of people not earning enough money to survive is never resolved. Surely there is a better way.

I propose absolutely no minimum wage, but strong labor unions for every sector of the economy. The Sweden, Denmark, or Norway economic model.

[Scarast]

Just let the free market do its job, if a restaurant doesn't pay people enough or give enough benefits, workers will leave, people will realize they're underpaying their workers and stop eating there and so workers will be paid the amount they should be receiving for the amount of work they do.

The free market has never self-regulated. NEVER. The reason every civilised country in the world has regulations is because greed always wins out over right when money is involved. That line is nothing more than a shameless manipulation of the sensibilities of moralistic optimists to use their belief in the good in everyone to get them to support corporate greed. The majority of consumers simply don't care as long as they get to save a few bucks (or be told that they're saving a few bucks even as prices continue to rise regardless).

Okay, I messed up on how I spoke about that- I shouldn't have said "people will realize they're underpaying" while ignoring the fact that people openly speak about how sweatshop laborers are working for the things they buy. The thought is that- let's say-
Store 1 pays 5 cookie dough buckets to Bill on a day for working.
Store 2 opens up, offering to pay 6 cookie dough buckets to Bill for the same amount of work. Sure enough. Bob moves.
Now, Store 2 is making money. No-one will pay Bill higher because that's too much money.
Store 1 now has to pay a less competent worker, meaning their profits go down because they're paying the same amount for less competence.
Another example is that
Bob will work for 1 cookie dough bucket an hour, because he will not be working in a skilled profession.
But the minimum wage is 2 cookie dough buckets an hour, preventing any stores from hiring him and forcing him to find something else to do. But he can't find a job, because he has no skills in the job market.

[The South Falls]

People eat at McD's. They buy from clothing brands that use sweatshops. Not how the free market works.

I wouldn't call that "Free Market" as they are exploiting a poorer country with people who have nothing other to do than to survive. That's just taking over.
Also for McDonalds, I'm going to assume you're talking about how they should "pay a living wage" of 15/hour, which is absurdly high (nearly doubling the worker costs), and what will happen to the workers who just got their new paycheck? Laid off, because an automated system would be more profitable. It'd be like this:
Worker 1,2,3 and 4 all get paid 7.5/hour, manager gets paid 15/hour (as an example)
Minimum wage gets kicked up to 15/hour
What should the place do?
Option A: Keep the workers, run out of money
Option B: Lay two off, keep your manager who now works at 20/hr and have someone come around every time the server machine breaks.
If I wasted my time saying that, please tell me haha

You assumed wrong. McD's in higher cost of living areas should at least pay 9 or 10 dollars an hour. That's not needed in a small town.

[Jebslund]

The free market has never self-regulated. NEVER. The reason every civilised country in the world has regulations is because greed always wins out over right when money is involved. That line is nothing more than a shameless manipulation of the sensibilities of moralistic optimists to use their belief in the good in everyone to get them to support corporate greed. The majority of consumers simply don't care as long as they get to save a few bucks (or be told that they're saving a few bucks even as prices continue to rise regardless).

Okay, I messed up on how I spoke about that- I shouldn't have said "people will realize they're underpaying" while ignoring the fact that people openly speak about how sweatshop laborers are working for the things they buy. The thought is that- let's say-
Store 1 pays 5 cookie dough buckets to Bill on a day for working.
Store 2 opens up, offering to pay 6 cookie dough buckets to Bill for the same amount of work. Sure enough. Bob moves.
Now, Store 2 is making money. No-one will pay Bill higher because that's too much money.
Store 1 now has to pay a less competent worker, meaning their profits go down because they're paying the same amount for less competence.
Another example is that
Bob will work for 1 cookie dough bucket an hour, because he will not be working in a skilled profession.
But the minimum wage is 2 cookie dough buckets an hour, preventing any stores from hiring him and forcing him to find something else to do. But he can't find a job, because he has no skills in the job market.

It's cute that you think that's how things work.

Here's the real-world scenario:
Store 1 pays 5 cookie dough buckets to Bill on a day for working.
Store 2 opens up, offering to pay 6 cookie dough buckets to Bill for the same amount of work, but charges 50g of cookie dough more for their product in order to have the same profit margin as Store 1.
Bill moves, but Store 2 soon has to cut his wages to 5 cookie dough buckets or lay him off in order to remain competitive with Store 1 because customers prefer Store 1's prices, despite somewhat inferior service and product, because Store 2's service and product are not superior enough for most customers to justify the 50g difference in price.

Or

Bob will work for 1 cookie dough bucket an hour, because he will not be working in a skilled profession.
But the minimum wage is 2 cookie dough buckets an hour, meaning Bob does the same work as before, but at a higher rate of pay. Stores are not, in fact, prevented from hiring him, though most hire fewer workers in order to maintain and/or increase profit margins, even though they'd still be making money to hire the same number of workers at the new wage. Their decision not to hire Bob, if made, is made out of greed, not necessity. Their revenue streams are more than sufficient to turn a profit without reducing hiring rates.

[Petrasylvania]

Abolish money.

The only thing worse than communism, is the Federation.

[Federally United Germany]

That seems absolutely ridiculous. Although i believe businesses that rely on tips should serve some sort of constant wage, tipping GOOD service more and poorly tipping horrible service is a good thing. If they refuse to do a good job and take pride in their work they shouldn't have that job in the first place.

[Telconi]

Don't.

[Petrasylvania]

Don't.

^ Someone who enjoys writing on receipts that he doesn't tip for whatever reason he came up with at the moment.

[Telconi]

Don't.

^ Someone who enjoys writing on receipts that he doesn't tip for whatever reason he came up with at the moment.

Whatever helps you sleep at night Gauth.

[Petrasylvania]

^ Someone who enjoys writing on receipts that he doesn't tip for whatever reason he came up with at the moment.

Whatever helps you sleep at night Gauth.

Yes, actually tipping in restaurants as opposed to rubbing it in the employees' faces by witholding tips just for sadistic glee is good for sleep. You should try it sometimes. :^]

[Ifreann]

Abolish money.

The only thing worse than communism, is the Federation.

The Culture > The Federation

[Uxupox]

The only thing worse than communism, is the Federation.

The Culture > The Federation

y e s.

[Telconi]

Whatever helps you sleep at night Gauth.

Yes, actually tipping in restaurants as opposed to rubbing it in the employees' faces by witholding tips just for sadistic glee is good for sleep. You should try it sometimes. :^]

Don't you have better things to do than inflict your hatred on others?

[The Liberated Territories]

Let's not abolish tipping. Most people are going to cling here on to the idea that employers/bosses etc. should be forced to pay a "living" wage, ignoring the slew of problems that has by itself (raising costs and/or destroying jobs.)

The entire concept of leaving it up to the consumer to determine how much money an employee makes is only going to fleece those who care the most, leaving them with less money than those who care the least.

This is a fallacy.

And anyway, why would you trust employers and bosses, if they are supposedly looking out for their bottom line only, to pay employees fairly, over their market value as determined by the people tipping them? Nobody is forcing you to tip them if the idea is repugnant to you. If people are really against tipping, stop tipping, and that will guarantee employees seek out jobs with higher starting wages.