How do we abolish tipping without harming employees?

[Greed and Death]

Ive worked as a tipped server and I never came away with less than 15 dollars an hour and most days I ended up making closer to 20 an hour. And this was a Chinese restaurant in a small town.
I think the reason you hear so much about servers being underpaid was is many if not must under report their cash tips to avoid taxes so govnerment stats reflects what is reported.

[Happsborough]

Raise the minimum wage and abolish the tipping loophole that allows companies to pay tipped employees less then minimum wage.
Also while we're at it reduce the work we to 4 days.

The tipping loophole also means female employees are more likely to be forced to tolerate sexual harassment from customers in order to earn a liveable amount.

That's complete crap, as many people have said most people tip regardless of service quality. That is also not to mention the obvious implication that sexual harassment is widespread or that all men sexually harass people which is a notion that is as laughable as it is false: extremely so. Besides even if sexual harassment IS involved you're acting as if the company would FORCE the worker to endure it. Almost every restaurant I know of would boot out such a customer.

[Greed and Death]

Raise the minimum wage and abolish the tipping loophole that allows companies to pay tipped employees less then minimum wage.
Also while we're at it reduce the work we to 4 days.

You know if the Employee doesn't get tipped enough to make above minimum wage the employer must pay them to make up that amount.

[The Liamese Empire]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_vivC7c_1k

So apparently tipping used to be considered a bribe for better service than everyone else, and it only became normalized during the prohibition era when businesses resorted to it as a last-ditch means to stay open.

I'm not too surprised. The entire concept of leaving it up to the consumer to determine how much money an employee makes is only going to fleece those who care the most, leaving them with less money than those who care the least. Everyone should be skeptical of a custom that results in that.

Also, if waiters and cooks don't make enough money, isn't that what the minimum wage is for? If it's too low, raise it. If it's inadequately enforced, enforce it. There ought to be a law that any business proven to underpay workers has all its assets seized.

In the meantime, how do we phase out the custom of tipping without harming employees in the process?

Why is a customer paying for better service a problem?

[Telconi]

Raise the minimum wage and abolish the tipping loophole that allows companies to pay tipped employees less then minimum wage.
Also while we're at it reduce the work we to 4 days.

You know if the Employee doesn't get tipped enough to make above minimum wage the employer must pay them to make up that amount.

Which sort of defeats the purpose of receiving tips. They're not supposed to make up baseline wages, they'really supposed to be extra gratuity for a server's services.

[Genivaria]

Raise the minimum wage and abolish the tipping loophole that allows companies to pay tipped employees less then minimum wage.
Also while we're at it reduce the work we to 4 days.

You know if the Employee doesn't get tipped enough to make above minimum wage the employer must pay them to make up that amount.

And if you make MORE than minimum wage than the extra tips are deducted from your check.

[Ifreann]

I am all for minimum wage applying to all employees, I don't want to abolish tipping. Though knowing a server in a diner is getting minimum wage I would be prone to tip less.

I completely agree, tipping should be a reward for hard work, not an obligation based on the employee desperately needing it for rent.

If tips are a reward for hard work, one does have to wonder why only some workers tend to receive tips and not all workers who deal with customers.

---

The tipping loophole also means female employees are more likely to be forced to tolerate sexual harassment from customers in order to earn a liveable amount.

That's complete crap, as many people have said most people tip regardless of service quality. That is also not to mention the obvious implication that sexual harassment is widespread or that all men sexually harass people which is a notion that is as laughable as it is false: extremely so. Besides even if sexual harassment IS involved you're acting as if the company would FORCE the worker to endure it. Almost every restaurant I know of would boot out such a customer.

Read about working in Hooters.

[Jebslund]

Raise the minimum wage and abolish the tipping loophole that allows companies to pay tipped employees less then minimum wage.
Also while we're at it reduce the work we to 4 days.

You know if the Employee doesn't get tipped enough to make above minimum wage the employer must pay them to make up that amount.

You know that is only an empty platitude when enforcement depends on the employee reporting and proving the discrepancy and the employer can just turn around and fire the employee using the excuse of "poor performance".

[Holy Tedalonia]

Get rid of Tipped-Minimum Wage, and enforce a no tipping policy. Easy done.

[Indo-Malaysia]

It doesn't need abolishing. Why try to solve a problem that doesn't exist?

All is well in England.

[Economic Naturalists]

My friend used to work at a Dennys. He earned like $25 an hour. He undereported his income on tax day. Pretty sure this living wage crap is just rhetoric. If being a waiter were truly so horrible then there would be no waiters. Plenty of work in other minimum wage positions.

[Telconi]

Get rid of Tipped-Minimum Wage, and enforce a no tipping policy. Easy done.

Ban people from giving other people money? Really?

[Scomagia]

Get rid of Tipped-Minimum Wage, and enforce a no tipping policy. Easy done.

I will happily break that policy. I will reward industrious workers as I see fit unless they get in trouble for accepting, in which case I'll just tip them discreetly.

[Jebslund]

My friend used to work at a Dennys. He earned like $25 an hour. He undereported his income on tax day. Pretty sure this living wage crap is just rhetoric. If being a waiter were truly so horrible then there would be no waiters. Plenty of work in other minimum wage positions.

Yes, because your friend is every waiter ever and no one ever gets an undesirable job because of lack of options, because we all know there are openings literally everywhere ever because we totally weren't just in a recession that has left far more job seekers than jobs...

[Mushet]

Just don't go to the sort of places where it's expected, like the vast majority with waiting staff. Go to a cafeteria or somewhere where you pick up the food from the counter. That's what I do, I don't even hate tipping I just don't want to deal with it.

[Scarast]

Okay, how about this:
No minimum wage, but unions can get companies to pay the right amount to people?
I mean, it works in the Scandinavian countries, and the normal “minimum wage” set by the unions comes out to around 21$/hour in Denmark.

[Ifreann]

Get rid of Tipped-Minimum Wage, and enforce a no tipping policy. Easy done.

I will happily break that policy. I will reward industrious workers as I see fit unless they get in trouble for accepting, in which case I'll just tip them discreetly.

If you happened to walk past a construction site, would you pass one of the workers money as a reward for being so industrious?

[Jebslund]

Okay, how about this:
No minimum wage, but unions can get companies to pay the right amount to people?
I mean, it works in the Scandinavian countries, and the normal “minimum wage” set by the unions comes out to around 21$/hour in Denmark.

Butbut that will cause every company ever to go BROKE! There simply isn't enough money in this country to pay people properly because companies are so poor that the US has a nominal GDP over 50% higher than that of the next highest country and over double that of the highest Scandinaian country! There won't be any jobs and the economy will crash and everything will be miserable and everyone will be destitute of companies are forced to pay proper wages and care about their employees more than maximising profits!

Before any right wingers jump down my throat, I'm not saying company owners shouldn't profit from their companies. They should. It's just inexcusable for there to be employees making below minimum wage, and, indeed, poverty-level wages, if the owner and/or CEO are not also having to be in the same boat. There are companies with employees living at or below the poverty line whose CEOs and owners make six-, seven-, and eight-digit salaries. I don't begrudge successful entrepreneurs success. I begrudge greedy leeches who only enjoy such high salaries by keeping their employees on the government dole their theft. If no one in your company is working poor and you make six figures, fair play to you. If even the lowest men, women, and technicolor rainbows in between on your company totem pole are living comfortably (not necessarily richly), and you have a yacht in every port, hats off to you, mate. It's the people who starve their employees for the illusion of success that I hate, not the ones who legitimately pay their employees and have earned the right to be well-payed (the people who are *actually* successful).

[Ethel mermania]

My friend used to work at a Dennys. He earned like $25 an hour. He undereported his income on tax day. Pretty sure this living wage crap is just rhetoric. If being a waiter were truly so horrible then there would be no waiters. Plenty of work in other minimum wage positions.

Yes, because your friend is every waiter ever and no one ever gets an undesirable job because of lack of options, because we all know there are openings literally everywhere ever because we totally weren't just in a recession that has left far more job seekers than jobs...

Most American waiters make more than minimum wage with tips.

I have a good job. I wouldn't be working unless I had too. Also right now in the states the unemployment rate is about as low as it ever has been. If you can't get a job right now. The issue is you. Not the job market.

[NS Miami Shores]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_vivC7c_1k

So apparently tipping used to be considered a bribe for better service than everyone else, and it only became normalized during the prohibition era when businesses resorted to it as a last-ditch means to stay open.

I'm not too surprised. The entire concept of leaving it up to the consumer to determine how much money an employee makes is only going to fleece those who care the most, leaving them with less money than those who care the least. Everyone should be skeptical of a custom that results in that.

Also, if waiters and cooks don't make enough money, isn't that what the minimum wage is for? If it's too low, raise it. If it's inadequately enforced, enforce it. There ought to be a law that any business proven to underpay workers has all its assets seized.

In the meantime, how do we phase out the custom of tipping without harming employees in the process?

I used to be a busser and got part of the tips $, I made good money $, I know how hard the waitresses and waiters work, I know good tippers $ and bad tippers $, what is needed is a no tax on tips $ law, like in all my RP nations, with one exception, I once did a no tax on tips law in your nations RP thread and I was surprised by the overwhelming support it received.

This thread needs a good poll, like Tipping $ vote and Post?

1 We support tipping $ waitresses and waiters
2 We oppose tipping $ waitresses and waite We support tipping $ waitresses and waiters
3 We support tipping $ other service workers, post which kinds of workers you would tip
4 We oppose tipping workers.
5 We support a No Tax on Tips $ Law.
6 We support a Tax on Tips $ Law.

It is our OP Thread Host's right to create the Poll not mine, it is our OP Thread Host's right to post the Poll questions as I posted it, or in the OP's own words and style.

Lets all encourgage our OP Thread Host LimaUniformNovemberAlpha to create a good Poll on our posts.

[Telconi]

I will happily break that policy. I will reward industrious workers as I see fit unless they get in trouble for accepting, in which case I'll just tip them discreetly.

If you happened to walk past a construction site, would you pass one of the workers money as a reward for being so industrious?

If they were working for me? Yeah.

[Ifreann]

If you happened to walk past a construction site, would you pass one of the workers money as a reward for being so industrious?

If they were working for me? Yeah.

That's wages, not tips. I'm curious as to why, even though people say that tips are a reward for especially good service, tipping is only common in some lines of work.

[Telconi]

If they were working for me? Yeah.

That's wages, not tips. I'm curious as to why, even though people say that tips are a reward for especially good service, tipping is only common in some lines of work.

How is a tip wages?

[Ifreann]

That's wages, not tips. I'm curious as to why, even though people say that tips are a reward for especially good service, tipping is only common in some lines of work.

How is a tip wages?

When you pay people for their labour, that's employment, and what you're paying them is wages...

[Telconi]

How is a tip wages?

When you pay people for their labour, that's employment, and what you're paying them is wages...

You asked if I'd tip these people, I said yes, and now you're saying it isn't a tip if I do?