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On the terms "males" and "females..."

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Des-Bal
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Postby Des-Bal » Sun Oct 14, 2018 2:20 pm

Internationalist Bastard wrote:Because that requires people to think and we don’t want them straining themselves trying to be respectful to other people


Well there's also the issue that pronouns reference a state of being not a title. Demanding someone who does not believe you are female refer to you as female is demanding this person accept as fact something they do not believe to be true.
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Internationalist Bastard
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Postby Internationalist Bastard » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:11 pm

Des-Bal wrote:
Internationalist Bastard wrote:Because that requires people to think and we don’t want them straining themselves trying to be respectful to other people


Well there's also the issue that pronouns reference a state of being not a title. Demanding someone who does not believe you are female refer to you as female is demanding this person accept as fact something they do not believe to be true.

So I don’t believe black people are equal to me I’m allowed to refer to them as lesser beings?
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The Huskar Social Union
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:14 pm

The Batorys wrote:
Internationalist Bastard wrote:No matter how I fee about them I’d like a source to that claim

It'll take some digging.

It used to be common knowledge on here.

Thats a serious allegation to throw at someone mate
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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:21 pm

Internationalist Bastard wrote:
Des-Bal wrote:
Well there's also the issue that pronouns reference a state of being not a title. Demanding someone who does not believe you are female refer to you as female is demanding this person accept as fact something they do not believe to be true.

So I don’t believe black people are equal to me I’m allowed to refer to them as lesser beings?

Legally, in the US? Yeah. We have this wonderful thing called FREEDOM OF SPEECH that allows us to express ourselves. Social consequences are another matter.
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Internationalist Bastard
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Postby Internationalist Bastard » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:22 pm

Kowani wrote:
Internationalist Bastard wrote:So I don’t believe black people are equal to me I’m allowed to refer to them as lesser beings?

Legally, in the US? Yeah. We have this wonderful thing called FREEDOM OF SPEECH that allows us to express ourselves. Social consequences are another matter.

Of course there’s freedom of speech
It’s still disrespectful and hurtful to people for no good reason
Call me Alex, I insist
I am a girl, damnit
Slut Pride. So like, real talk, I’m a porn actress. We’re not all bimbos. I do not give out my information or videos to avoid conflict with site policy. I’m happy to talk about the industry or my thoughts on the career but I will not be showing you any goodies. Sorry
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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:28 pm

Internationalist Bastard wrote:
Kowani wrote:Legally, in the US? Yeah. We have this wonderful thing called FREEDOM OF SPEECH that allows us to express ourselves. Social consequences are another matter.

Of course there’s freedom of speech
It’s still disrespectful and hurtful to people for no good reason

Oh, definitely. However, I think anyone saying black people are lesser beings doesn't care that much about the feelings of those being disparaged.
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The Batorys
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Postby The Batorys » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:29 pm

Kowani wrote:
Internationalist Bastard wrote:Of course there’s freedom of speech
It’s still disrespectful and hurtful to people for no good reason

Oh, definitely. However, I think anyone saying black people are lesser beings doesn't care that much about the feelings of those being disparaged.

I think IB meant "allowed" more in the context of "socially acceptable."

If I referred to people of a different race/ethnicity as lesser beings, sure that would be legal, but people would be all "whoa, what the fuck?"
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Skunkylon
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Postby Skunkylon » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:32 pm

There are only 2 genders
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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:35 pm

The Batorys wrote:
Kowani wrote:Oh, definitely. However, I think anyone saying black people are lesser beings doesn't care that much about the feelings of those being disparaged.

I think IB meant "allowed" more in the context of "socially acceptable."

If I referred to people of a different race/ethnicity as lesser beings, sure that would be legal, but people would be all "whoa, what the fuck?"

Image
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Des-Bal
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Postby Des-Bal » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:35 pm

Internationalist Bastard wrote:So I don’t believe black people are equal to me I’m allowed to refer to them as lesser beings?


I suppose that's a sensible comparison if you believe men are superior to women. You can't frame this as just being polite, your not just talking about people's languages you're talking about their thoughts.
Cekoviu wrote:DES-BAL: Introverted, blunt, focused, utilitarian. Hard to read; not verbose online or likely in real life. Places little emphasis on interpersonal relationships, particularly with online strangers for whom the investment would outweigh the returns.
Desired perception: Logical, intellectual
Public perception: Neutral-positive - blunt, cold, logical, skilled at debating
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Liriena
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Postby Liriena » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:38 pm

Western-Ukraine wrote:It's unwise to change anything. It's the natural order of life for certain species to have only males and females. After all, we aren't earthworms or other vastly different species with a different methods of reproduction. So we shouldn't go around changing the terminology in an artificial manner to gratify radical sentiments.

All terminology is artificial.
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Des-Bal
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Postby Des-Bal » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:39 pm

Kowani wrote:(Image)

The proliferation of this comic like a disease is the greatest evil that Randall Munroe has ever perpetrated.
The Huskar Social Union wrote:Thats a serious allegation to throw at someone mate


If this wasn't an internet forum I would 100% take legal action.
Last edited by Des-Bal on Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cekoviu wrote:DES-BAL: Introverted, blunt, focused, utilitarian. Hard to read; not verbose online or likely in real life. Places little emphasis on interpersonal relationships, particularly with online strangers for whom the investment would outweigh the returns.
Desired perception: Logical, intellectual
Public perception: Neutral-positive - blunt, cold, logical, skilled at debating
Mindset: Logos

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Internationalist Bastard
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Postby Internationalist Bastard » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:40 pm

Des-Bal wrote:
Internationalist Bastard wrote:So I don’t believe black people are equal to me I’m allowed to refer to them as lesser beings?


I suppose that's a sensible comparison if you believe men are superior to women. You can't frame this as just being polite, your not just talking about people's languages you're talking about their thoughts.

I’m literally asking people to refer to me as they would other women
I’m not brainwashing people to obey my whims I’m asking for a basic level of respect
Call me Alex, I insist
I am a girl, damnit
Slut Pride. So like, real talk, I’m a porn actress. We’re not all bimbos. I do not give out my information or videos to avoid conflict with site policy. I’m happy to talk about the industry or my thoughts on the career but I will not be showing you any goodies. Sorry
“Whatever you are, be a good one” Abe Lincoln

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Des-Bal
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Postby Des-Bal » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:41 pm

Liriena wrote:All terminology is artificial.


But not all terminology is equally valid which is why this is never a worthwhile point to make.
Cekoviu wrote:DES-BAL: Introverted, blunt, focused, utilitarian. Hard to read; not verbose online or likely in real life. Places little emphasis on interpersonal relationships, particularly with online strangers for whom the investment would outweigh the returns.
Desired perception: Logical, intellectual
Public perception: Neutral-positive - blunt, cold, logical, skilled at debating
Mindset: Logos

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Internationalist Bastard
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Postby Internationalist Bastard » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:41 pm

Des-Bal wrote:
Kowani wrote:(Image)

The proliferation of this comic like a disease is the greatest evil that Randall Munroe has ever perpetrated.
The Huskar Social Union wrote:Thats a serious allegation to throw at someone mate


If this wasn't an internet forum I would 100% take legal action.

Yeah no I actually agree that was a very harsh thing to accuse someone of
Call me Alex, I insist
I am a girl, damnit
Slut Pride. So like, real talk, I’m a porn actress. We’re not all bimbos. I do not give out my information or videos to avoid conflict with site policy. I’m happy to talk about the industry or my thoughts on the career but I will not be showing you any goodies. Sorry
“Whatever you are, be a good one” Abe Lincoln

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Des-Bal
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Postby Des-Bal » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:42 pm

Internationalist Bastard wrote:I’m literally asking people to refer to me as they would other women
I’m not brainwashing people to obey my whims I’m asking for a basic level of respect


And if people don't believe you're a woman you're asking them to change or suppress their beliefs in the name of being polite.
Cekoviu wrote:DES-BAL: Introverted, blunt, focused, utilitarian. Hard to read; not verbose online or likely in real life. Places little emphasis on interpersonal relationships, particularly with online strangers for whom the investment would outweigh the returns.
Desired perception: Logical, intellectual
Public perception: Neutral-positive - blunt, cold, logical, skilled at debating
Mindset: Logos

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Western Vale Confederacy
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Postby Western Vale Confederacy » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:59 pm

Des-Bal wrote:
Internationalist Bastard wrote:I’m literally asking people to refer to me as they would other women
I’m not brainwashing people to obey my whims I’m asking for a basic level of respect


And if people don't believe you're a woman you're asking them to change or suppress their beliefs in the name of being polite.


And what if they don't know that she was previously a man, eh?

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Des-Bal
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Postby Des-Bal » Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:01 pm

Western Vale Confederacy wrote:And what if they don't know that she was previously a man, eh?

Then nothing has changed except the amount of information they're operating with.
Cekoviu wrote:DES-BAL: Introverted, blunt, focused, utilitarian. Hard to read; not verbose online or likely in real life. Places little emphasis on interpersonal relationships, particularly with online strangers for whom the investment would outweigh the returns.
Desired perception: Logical, intellectual
Public perception: Neutral-positive - blunt, cold, logical, skilled at debating
Mindset: Logos

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Aclion
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Postby Aclion » Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:04 pm

I am convinced at this point that the social justice movement is a french plot to take down the english language by rendering it completely unusable.
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Internationalist Bastard
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Postby Internationalist Bastard » Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:04 pm

Des-Bal wrote:
Internationalist Bastard wrote:I’m literally asking people to refer to me as they would other women
I’m not brainwashing people to obey my whims I’m asking for a basic level of respect


And if people don't believe you're a woman you're asking them to change or suppress their beliefs in the name of being polite.

Then I’m allowed to think I’m part of the master race and treat others as subhuman. I’m not suppressing my beliefs just to look polite
Call me Alex, I insist
I am a girl, damnit
Slut Pride. So like, real talk, I’m a porn actress. We’re not all bimbos. I do not give out my information or videos to avoid conflict with site policy. I’m happy to talk about the industry or my thoughts on the career but I will not be showing you any goodies. Sorry
“Whatever you are, be a good one” Abe Lincoln

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Des-Bal
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Postby Des-Bal » Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:06 pm

Internationalist Bastard wrote:Then I’m allowed to think I’m part of the master race and treat others as subhuman. I’m not suppressing my beliefs just to look polite

A great comparison if men or women constituted a master race and that ones gender determined whether or not they were sub-human.
Cekoviu wrote:DES-BAL: Introverted, blunt, focused, utilitarian. Hard to read; not verbose online or likely in real life. Places little emphasis on interpersonal relationships, particularly with online strangers for whom the investment would outweigh the returns.
Desired perception: Logical, intellectual
Public perception: Neutral-positive - blunt, cold, logical, skilled at debating
Mindset: Logos

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Arcturus Novus
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Postby Arcturus Novus » Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:06 pm

Aclion wrote:I am convinced at this point that the social justice movement is a french plot to take down the english language by rendering it completely unusable.

Which is ironic, because if any language deserves to be ruined to the point of uselessness, it's French.
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Internationalist Bastard
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Postby Internationalist Bastard » Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:09 pm

Des-Bal wrote:
Internationalist Bastard wrote:Then I’m allowed to think I’m part of the master race and treat others as subhuman. I’m not suppressing my beliefs just to look polite

A great comparison if men or women constituted a master race and that ones gender determined whether or not they were sub-human.

The point is belief does not make being inconsiderate to others suddenly not a dick move
Call me Alex, I insist
I am a girl, damnit
Slut Pride. So like, real talk, I’m a porn actress. We’re not all bimbos. I do not give out my information or videos to avoid conflict with site policy. I’m happy to talk about the industry or my thoughts on the career but I will not be showing you any goodies. Sorry
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The Batorys
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Postby The Batorys » Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:10 pm

Aclion wrote:I am convinced at this point that the social justice movement is a french plot to take down the english language by rendering it completely unusable.

TIL I learned that a language becomes completely unusable if you change its pronouns slightly. :roll:
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This is an alternate history version of Callisdrun.
Here is the (incomplete) Factbook
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The Batorys
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Postby The Batorys » Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:11 pm

Arcturus Novus wrote:
Aclion wrote:I am convinced at this point that the social justice movement is a french plot to take down the english language by rendering it completely unusable.

Which is ironic, because if any language deserves to be ruined to the point of uselessness, it's French.

How would you be able to tell if it had been?
Mallorea and Riva should resign
This is an alternate history version of Callisdrun.
Here is the (incomplete) Factbook
Ask me about The Forgotten Lands!
Pro: Feminism, environmentalism, BLM, LGBTQUILTBAG, BDSM, unions, hyphy, Lenin, Ho Chi Minh, Oakland, old San Francisco, the Alliance to Restore the Republic, and fully automated gay luxury space communism
Anti: Misogyny, fossil fuels, racism, homophobia, kink-shaming, capitalism, LA, Silicon Valley, techies, Brezhnev, the Galactic Empire, and the "alt-right"

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