#babyforsale

[Galloism]

This is pretty disgusting.

Where does the disgust sit?

The mother.. who faces severe consequences for being a mother with child out of wedlock
The buyer.. god knows for what reason..
The middle man.. taken advantage of desperation
The society.. for creating this issue in the first place

Yes.

[Dahon]

You entirely underestimate the strength of the paternalistic tradition that exalts male babies (and denigrates females) in our part of the world, Tirad. Us Pinoys come off real lightly these benighted days, thanks to an increasing sense of egalitarianism.

[Bombadil]

Where does the disgust sit?

The mother.. who faces severe consequences for being a mother with child out of wedlock
The buyer.. god knows for what reason..
The middle man.. taken advantage of desperation
The society.. for creating this issue in the first place

Yes.

I mean for all those who say..

a. Abortion should be banned
b. Sex should not be taught at school

These are the consequences.

[Kannap]

This is pretty disgusting.

Where does the disgust sit?

The mother.. who faces severe consequences for being a mother with child out of wedlock
The buyer.. god knows for what reason..
The middle man.. taken advantage of desperation
The society.. for creating this issue in the first place

All of the above.

[Bombadil]

Where does the disgust sit?

The mother.. who faces severe consequences for being a mother with child out of wedlock
The buyer.. god knows for what reason..
The middle man.. taken advantage of desperation
The society.. for creating this issue in the first place

All of the above.

Equally or would you weight it?

[Valentine Z]

I can understand adoption, but breeding babies for selling them... is just wrong, man.

I don't think it's like chickens, it's babies out of wedlock the mother needs to hide.. the risk or even knowledge of an abortion is not an option so next best thing is to sell it, pretend the whole thing never happened.

I remember something about Nepal, which has loose adoption laws but there's some system whereby an excuse is provided for the mother to go to, say, Kathmandu, and have the baby and put up for adoption - in that they tell their family/village they have a 6 month job in Kathmandu then they go, food and board is taken from the adoption price, they have the baby and return home with no one technically the wiser.

Ahh, that much is true as well. With the abortion laws being strict at some parts of the world, I can see why they have to do that.

[Dahon]

not in its entirety.

I figured certain parts of the world still engaged in slavery, just didn't know it was this big still.

It's still that big, in large part due to economic necessity -- too many mouths to feed and/or too little money make Pangloss cry in despair.

[Kowani]

I figured certain parts of the world still engaged in slavery, just didn't know it was this big still.

It's still that big, in large part due to economic necessity -- too many mouths to feed and/or too little money make Pangloss cry in despair.

Also, rampaging local warlords. They have a fondness for “remploying” anyone who survives the massacre.

[Kannap]

All of the above.

Equally or would you weight it?

After - admittedly not the longest time to think about it - I'm drawing up only cons for all four that only weigh them down as being disgusting.

The only thing I can think that sets one apart from the rest is I feel immense pity for the mother - but I'm also assuming that the mother feels absolutely horrible for her decision and would rather not make it but lives in a society where she feels forced. If the mother has no remorse and is just having children for the sole purpose of selling them then fuck, all four - mother, buyer, middle man, and society - are horrible.

[Uxupox]

It's still that big, in large part due to economic necessity -- too many mouths to feed and/or too little money make Pangloss cry in despair.

Also, rampaging local warlords. They have a fondness for “remploying” anyone who survives the massacre.

yea. the warlords in africa have a particular niche for "integral" labor.

[Kowani]

Also, rampaging local warlords. They have a fondness for “remploying” anyone who survives the massacre.

yea. the warlords in africa have a particular niche for "integral" labor.

Gotta keep that labor force at work after all.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

This is pretty disgusting.

Where does the disgust sit?

The mother.. who faces severe consequences for being a mother with child out of wedlock
The buyer.. god knows for what reason..
The middle man.. taken advantage of desperation
The society.. for creating this issue in the first place

All of the above. As for who is to blame the most, it’s hard to say; I condemn the mother for treating her child like an object to be bought and sold (I can’t say I find her selling her kid understandable), and I condemn the buyer for buying a child like he would if he were out to buy a new shirt.

EDIT: I also have some choice words for the other two, but I can’t be bothered at the moment.

[Dahon]

I wouldn't be so quick as to condemn the buyer in Bombadil's dismal quadrilateral.

In a not inconsiderable number of cases, the mother who may otherwise be willing to keep the child can't, due to economic pressures in addition to social ones. So she tries to steer the auction (sigh) to a buyer most likely to treat her kid well -- usually a childless couple, usually foreigners.

So there's your extenuating circumstance, yes?

[Dahon]

Also, rampaging local warlords. They have a fondness for “remploying” anyone who survives the massacre.

yea. the warlords in africa have a particular niche for "integral" labor.

Child soldiers. Fuck.

[Kowani]

I wouldn't be so quick as to condemn the buyer in Bombadil's dismal quadrilateral.

In a not inconsiderable number of cases, the mother who may otherwise be willing to keep the child can't, due to economic pressures in addition to social ones. So she tries to steer the auction (sigh) to a buyer most likely to treat her kid well -- usually a childless couple, usually foreigners.

So there's your extenuating circumstance, yes?

I mean, if you’re already desperate enough to sell your kids, I doubt you have the resources to investigate a buyer, but meh.

[USS Monitor]

I want to click a poll, but selling babies is bad. If you want a baby, go to a proper adoption agency.

[Dahon]

I want to click a poll, but selling babies is bad. If you want a baby, go to a proper adoption agency.

In some countries, adoption agencies (and the people who staff them, as well as those who use their services) are not culture-neutral signifiers.

[Geneviev]

How about no selling any people?

[Starpoint]

How about no selling any people?

Agreed. And yet... what circumstances could compel someone to do this? It strikes me as very odd that someone would sell their child unless they had no other viable option.

[Dahon]

How about no selling any people?

Agreed. And yet... what circumstances could compel someone to do this? It strikes me as very odd that someone would sell their child unless they had no other viable option.

Quite a few reasons, but let's say cultural and economic.

[The New Fandom Republic]

I have never felt so disgusted at a ns forum than I do at this one.
The whole process is just abhorrent to me.

[Geneviev]

How about no selling any people?

Agreed. And yet... what circumstances could compel someone to do this? It strikes me as very odd that someone would sell their child unless they had no other viable option.

What is worst is I'm sure the people selling these babies really had to.

[The Free Joy State]

People should not sell or buy babies. Babies are not property.

As for where the blame lies:

I can empathise with the mother's situation: an unplanned pregnancy in a country that makes abortion practically or completely impossible; societal judgement and lack of support preventing her from raising her baby; perhaps pressure from her own family (as well as shame over her "sin"). But -- while a newborn is not a commodity and she should leave it at a hospital if she can't care for it -- I can't really judge a woman too much who was scared, guilted and outright coerced into giving her baby up.

It somewhat reminds me of the stories before it became accepted to have children outside marriage in the US and Canada: women pressured and guilt-tripped into signing over babies for private adoptions (so, cash for babies) with the promise they'd have a "better life" than the mother could ever give them (such as this one in 1940s Canada).

As for the people who buy trafficked babies, and the middlemen who trade in them, and the society who puts women in that position... they all feed into each other and they're all equally guilty in this.

[Saiwania]

The sale probably should be allowed to proceed, provided the buyer is wealthy enough. They're not buying the infant as property, or to use it for cannibalism or sacrifice. The buyer is paying for transfer of legal guardianship over to them.

[Bombadil]

The sale probably should be allowed to proceed, provided the buyer is wealthy enough. They're not buying the infant as property, or to use it for cannibalism or sacrifice. The buyer is paying for transfer of legal guardianship over to them.

You wouldn't be worried that if we legalise the buying and selling of babies then a large group of people who are already likely marginalised and desperate would be exploited for profit?

Actually I don't know the various laws around this, is it legal anywhere.. or even not exactly buying and selling but still, a monetary reward for adoption..

I mean I don't even think a legal means of renumeration for a baby should be allowed.