Theocracy Discussion Thread

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

If there is anything I have learned from history is that religion based governments aren't a good idea. As soon as you allow religion to meddle in and control the affairs of state, terrible situations spurned by religious zeal or blatant ignorance inevitably happen. I'm not saying every person who is religious is ignorant, mind you, but ignorance used ruthlessly in the name of a deity by religious organizations without scruples can cause far too many issues.

Deities may very well, in case they exist and I don't know if they do or if they do not, want the best for their followers. Humans however, self-interest often truncates this... I wouldn't trust them to handle power in the name of a god. The instances in history when this has been the case, atrocities were committed.

This is not to say that secular governments aren't capable of abuse. They are. That too is a lesson we learn from history.

[Thermodolia]

If there is anything I have learned from history is that religion based governments aren't a good idea. As soon as you allow religion to meddle in and control the affairs of state, terrible situations spurned by religious zeal or blatant ignorance inevitably happen. I'm not saying every person who is religious is ignorant, mind you, but ignorance used ruthlessly in the name of a deity by religious organizations without scruples can cause far too many issues.

Deities may very well, in case they exist and I don't know if they do or if they do not, want the best for their followers. Humans however, self-interest often truncates this... I wouldn't trust them to handle power in the name of a god. The instances in history when this has been the case, atrocities were committed.

This is not to say that secular governments aren't capable of abuse. They are. That too is a lesson we learn from history.

The USSR and China are great examples of secular states going nuts

[Kubumba Tribe]

Also, as atheists, we have an interest in preventing theocracies where religion is shoved down our throats.

I stand with you in that.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

If there is anything I have learned from history is that religion based governments aren't a good idea. As soon as you allow religion to meddle in and control the affairs of state, terrible situations spurned by religious zeal or blatant ignorance inevitably happen. I'm not saying every person who is religious is ignorant, mind you, but ignorance used ruthlessly in the name of a deity by religious organizations without scruples can cause far too many issues.

Deities may very well, in case they exist and I don't know if they do or if they do not, want the best for their followers. Humans however, self-interest often truncates this... I wouldn't trust them to handle power in the name of a god. The instances in history when this has been the case, atrocities were committed.

This is not to say that secular governments aren't capable of abuse. They are. That too is a lesson we learn from history.

The USSR and China are great examples of secular states going nuts

Indeed, and you see that repeated in South East Asia.

[Olerand]

I might prefer it to secularism because it might agree more with me.
depending on what you mean by theocracy.

I would prefer a theocracy of my own faith all else being equal but only because I would prefer a government I agree with.
I wouldn’t ban bishops from the house of lords in England in alliance with secularists for example.

I do think that making religion an absolute requirement for all offices even if a person of another faith is willing to exercise the office in line with a religious legal system is prejudice though(EG in a Muslim theocracy of say Malaysia if it became a theocracy why shouldn’t a Christian be allowed to be a police officer, councillor or even Member Of Parliament)

It doesn't matter where the Islamic theocracy is, they can't ban non-Muslims from holding certain positions.

Again, religion mandates that the non-religious get involved in its affairs. For unfortunately, when religion has any power, it doesn't leave the non-religious at peace, does it?

What's wrong with non-religious people being involved in a theocracy?

Only.

Until they are forced on people.

Checks and balances exist for a reason.

I'd be up for teaching creationism alongside evolution, as long as I'd be free to make creationism look dumb as shit when juxtaposed against evolution.

Or vice versa (just saying, I don't actually believe in creationism).

You didn’t even say why let alone give any details of a definition you are using for the purpose
(See Muslims laugh too)

I had to look at the parenthetical part for a while lol. I remember - I think - watching a Ted talks about that, or some kind of poetic performance.

You'll be hard-pressed to find truly secular states in Europe, tho. Most have become Christian-hating, true, but from Britain to Germany passing by Sweden, one can see that they afford to Islam way more leeway than they would allow to any other religion.

A sister was denied a job because she wouldn't shake hands in Sweden. I don't know if this happened in the same country, but some other sisters were denied citizenship for not taking mixed-sex swimming classes.

Yes they are
Because when I make it argument it’s about real things we can see, not an invisible sky daddy who made me queer than said I’d burn in Hell for it

Invisible sky daddies don't exist, not are you going to Jahannam for being queer.

The UK has shariah courts.

Are they 100%?

Which have been proven to be deleterious to women's rights, but... who cares?

Me

Two high-ranking political figures in Sweden, one a minister, had to resign for refusing to shake hands with women.

They shouldn't have been a part of that party tk begin with. What happened to the other party member?

But they are. How could the country of God, guns, grits and gravy

You just describsd the south there, not all the US.

Nothing, they must be, actually, to avoid it ever being founded.

What is 100%? Do you mean do they cut off hands and apply the death penalty? Obviously not.

I'm sure you do. That doesn't detract from my point. At all.

What? Both resigned.
Yes, they shouldn't have been. But they were. Because it's Sweden.

I'm describing a certain political affiliation. Obviously I don't mean liberal Massachusetts or whatever.

It's so unfortunate that Jefferson and Adams are dead I guess, and that it has been two hundred years too! What would they think of their Christian-Muslim Brotherhood affiliated descendants now, huh?


So...
The country of God, guns, grits and gravy; the country of Evangelicalism; the country of George W. Bush Jr. and Donald J. Trump, the country of the Republican Party, the Christian sister of the Muslim Brotherhood, is secular?

Wow, secularism is one of those words that mean nothing today anymore huh? How unfortunate.

they are dead but what they wrote in the constitution is still relevant and followed to a t.

But they're dead. And their Constitution is being interpreted by a politicized judiciary in a hyper-partisan environment where one of the two political parties is the Christian sister of the Muslim Brotherhood.

But they are. How could the country of God, guns, grits and gravy; the country of Evangelicalism; the country of George W. Bush Jr. and Donald J. Trump, the country of the Republican Party, the Christian sister of the Muslim Brotherhood, be secular?
It's an oxymoron.

Because that’s not the entire US. Also Trump isn’t religious, if anything he’s spiritual but not religious.

Would a supposedly not secular nation say that a religious test for political office is illegal? Would it say that you can’t put up religious objects in government buildings? Would a non secular nation say that if you want to put up a nativity set on the town green that all other religions must be shown as well? Would said nation repremand a Judge for attempting to install the Ten Commandments in a court house? Would a non secular nation make public prayer in schools illegal?

I’d say that no non secular nation would do those things. We might not be on the level of France but we are secular.

It's an entire political affiliation. And Trump pretends to be religious, but Evangelicals actually vote for him, do they not?

Well, the issues of the nativity scene, the religious figures in court and all that are soon to be hot topics with the new Supreme Court, I'm sure.
Let's wait and see. But as I've already said, how could the nation of all that I have listed be secular? It can't. It's like saying Russia is secular.

Fake secular. So... not really.

So...
The country of God,

“Separation of Church and state”

guns, grits and gravy;

Somehow religious?

the country of Evangelicalism;

More like the country of Americans don’t leave out the Mormons, mainstream Protestants, and other religions or aethism. Even if it was just evangelicals in America it somehow makes it non-secular?

the country of George W. Bush Jr. and Donald J. Trump,

and Barack Obama... and other presidents...

the country of the Republican Party,

And the Democratic Party...

the Christian sister of the Muslim Brotherhood, is secular?

I don’t recall Christians beheading other religions, having religious coups, and enforcing religious law. What do you think America is? Your examples provide of America is scary if you were the leader of France.

It's a slogan by Huckabee. It's not meant to be dissected individually.

Evangelicalism is the most extremist denomination of Christianity outside of sects. Evangelicalism is to Christianity what Islamism (or conservative Islam, the dominant position in the Muslim world today) is to Islam. Evangelicalism is the plurality of the Christian population in America, and a core of the Christian-Muslim Brotherhood.

But no secular country would have the two I listed. No secular country would have the Republican Party.

And the Republican Party, the Christian sister of the Muslim Brotherhood.

No, not beheading, but laws based on the religion, certainly. And the Christian-Muslim Brotherhood already had a legalized coup of sorts, in 2000. Anyway, they clearly don't need coups, the electorate will vote them in. Like how Egypt voted in the MB.

It's so unfortunate that Jefferson and Adams are dead I guess, and that it has been two hundred years too! What would they think of their Christian-Muslim Brotherhood affiliated descendants now, huh?

Again showing that you know absolutely nothing about American history and that you just hate the US. Just come out and say it.

Anyway Jefferson founded the Democrat-Republicans which is the ancestor of the Democrats.

What would they think, I wonder?

Yes, and? The Democrats were also the party of the South before civil rights and the Southern Strategy. And?

[Galloism]

But they are. How could the country of God, guns, grits and gravy; the country of Evangelicalism; the country of George W. Bush Jr. and Donald J. Trump, the country of the Republican Party, the Christian sister of the Muslim Brotherhood, be secular?
It's an oxymoron.

Because that’s not the entire US. Also Trump isn’t religious, if anything he’s spiritual but not religious.

Would a supposedly not secular nation say that a religious test for political office is illegal? Would it say that you can’t put up religious objects in government buildings? Would a non secular nation say that if you want to put up a nativity set on the town green that all other religions must be shown as well? Would said nation repremand a Judge for attempting to install the Ten Commandments in a court house? Would a non secular nation make public prayer in schools illegal?

I’d say that no non secular nation would do those things. We might not be on the level of France but we are secular.

I'd say Trump is religious. He's polytheist.

He worships two gods:

1) Money
2) Himself

[Kubumba Tribe]

It doesn't matter where the Islamic theocracy is, they can't ban non-Muslims from holding certain positions.

What's wrong with non-religious people being involved in a theocracy?

Checks and balances exist for a reason.

Or vice versa (just saying, I don't actually believe in creationism).

I had to look at the parenthetical part for a while lol. I remember - I think - watching a Ted talks about that, or some kind of poetic performance.

A sister was denied a job because she wouldn't shake hands in Sweden. I don't know if this happened in the same country, but some other sisters were denied citizenship for not taking mixed-sex swimming classes.

Invisible sky daddies don't exist, not are you going to Jahannam for being queer.

Are they 100%?

Me

They shouldn't have been a part of that party tk begin with. What happened to the other party member?

You just describsd the south there, not all the US.

Nothing, they must be, actually, to avoid it ever being founded.

No. Non-Muslims can hold certain positions in an Islamic government.

What is 100%? Do you mean do they cut off hands and apply the death penalty? Obviously not.

Ew.

What? Both resigned.

AlHamdulillah.

I'm describing a certain political affiliation. Obviously I don't mean liberal Massachusetts or whatever.

What? Idk what part of my post you're responding to. And next time, can you split my posts up when you're responding to a certain part of my post? It's a little confusing for me to understand what you're responding to.

[Kubumba Tribe]

Evangelicalism is to Christianity what Islamism (or conservative Islam, the dominant position in the Muslim world today) is to Islam. Evangelicalism is the plurality of the Christian population in America, and a core of the Christian-Muslim Brotherhood.

1: "Conservative Islam" doesn't exist.
2: Islamism is intertwining Al-Islam into politics, which is a good part of what the religion teaches.

[Luminesa]

theocracy or not, if i would live in a country, i would like it:

to ban abortions

to teach creationism and not only evolution

to lead prayers in school

allow christians to preach without call it "hate speech" if they preach verses that not fit into their ego

Yeah, batter a theocracy

As always, I ask, what is the difference between the American right and the Muslim Brotherhood?

American Right: While the modern right-wing of the United States has taken a while to form, the formation of the current Republican Party can be traced back to the Civil War. While conservatism has flipped and turned a lot in the last couple hundred years, most recently the right-wing is thought of in terms of the “religious right”, a term developed during Ronald Reagan’s presidency. However, the American Right can include everything from centrists, to your average conservative, to traditionalists, to paleoconservatives, to Libertarians, to those who genuinely can be considered “far-right”. One can be considered “economically right-wing” while also being “socially-left wing” (think the Kohn Brothers). One can also be the other way around.

Muslim Brotherhood: Formed in 1928 in Egypt, the Muslim Brotherhood is both a religious and a political organization. A Pan-Islamic group, they were founded originally on the principles of bringing Islam to every country in the world while also combining charity work. However, they have come under fire for being involved with Saudi Arabia and terrorist activities. While they are right-wing and anti-communist, and they claim to want democracy, nobody is quite sure how much they are willing to stand behind democracy. Just recently, however, they have started to come to the mainstream as the heads of the Egyptian government.

I mean, listen, Olerand. We know that the moment the words “right” and “wing” are spoken in the same sentence, right next to each other, your mind seems to flash to a hundred-thousand Germans marching in the streets while Hitler’s screams “Heil heil!” and Erika plays in the background. You seem to think that Lindsey Graham and Mitt Romney, and even the average joe who doesn’t walk around all day thinking about how they are going to terrorize you, are going to start rounding-up non-Republicans and shooting them in the streets. Am I wrong?

However, sophomoric condescension, mixed with this seething irrational fear of anyone or anything remotely right-wing, really doesn’t make your posts about ‘Christian-Muslim Brotherhood’ people look rational or based in history. In fact, it really just makes it look like you searched all of Wikipedia looking for the first organization with ‘right-wing’ under its name, and after you were filled with existential terror, you decided that this, THIS is the identity of EVERY right-wing person in the United States. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE.

Here’s a suggestion. First of all, maybe try to talk to individual people who identify as right-wing. or Evangelical, And not just on the Internet. Maybe a random American who has some right-wing views. And maybe, without panicking, you could listen to what they believe, and you will find there is a lot of variety among right-wingers, just as there are among left-wingers. Second, I offered you some facts and a slight bit of history. Maybe you could look-up facts and history, but then again you’ll probably also cherrypick individual events and say, “B-But they’re the Muslim Brotherhood! Really! REALLY!”

But if you do read back in history you’ll find that despite the overwhelming Christian majority in the right, there have been non-religious right-wingers, and the founders of the United States specifically called for a “separation of church and state”, which is still in effect now. Of course, you’ll say, “B-But nativity scenes and those Ten Commandments in court rooms, a-and a-and!” However, most religions in America are treated under the Constitution as equal, and are all given their space. College campuses have Catholic Churches, synagogues, temples, and other places of worship all right next to each other, for example. And nobody is losing their minds over it.

[Thermodolia]

Because that’s not the entire US. Also Trump isn’t religious, if anything he’s spiritual but not religious.

Would a supposedly not secular nation say that a religious test for political office is illegal? Would it say that you can’t put up religious objects in government buildings? Would a non secular nation say that if you want to put up a nativity set on the town green that all other religions must be shown as well? Would said nation repremand a Judge for attempting to install the Ten Commandments in a court house? Would a non secular nation make public prayer in schools illegal?

I’d say that no non secular nation would do those things. We might not be on the level of France but we are secular.

It's an entire political affiliation. And Trump pretends to be religious, but Evangelicals actually vote for him, do they not?

Evangelicals voting for someone doesn’t make that someone religious. Trump only pays lip service to those crazies, which honestly isn’t that hard to do.

Well, the issues of the nativity scene, the religious figures in court and all that are soon to be hot topics with the new Supreme Court, I'm sure.

I doubt it.

Let's wait and see. But as I've already said, how could the nation of all that I have listed be secular? It can't. It's like saying Russia is secular.

Because maybe you are just focusing on the states of the former CSA as the whole of the US?

Fake secular. So... not really.

No true Scotsman.

Again showing that you know absolutely nothing about American history and that you just hate the US. Just come out and say it.

Anyway Jefferson founded the Democrat-Republicans which is the ancestor of the Democrats.

What would they think, I wonder?

Probably spinning in their grave over a few things.

Yes, and? The Democrats were also the party of the South before civil rights and the Southern Strategy. And?

And before that time the republicans where the secular liberal party of the nation. The democrats and the republicans flipped

[Olerand]

Nothing, they must be, actually, to avoid it ever being founded.

No. Non-Muslims can hold certain positions in an Islamic government.

What is 100%? Do you mean do they cut off hands and apply the death penalty? Obviously not.

Ew.

What? Both resigned.

AlHamdulillah.

I'm describing a certain political affiliation. Obviously I don't mean liberal Massachusetts or whatever.

What? Idk what part of my post you're responding to. And next time, can you split my posts up when you're responding to a certain part of my post? It's a little confusing for me to understand what you're responding to.

Which is why non-religious people need to ensure theocracies never come into being.

I respond to your points in order, when they are addressing mine. I will try to split them up. And I am referring to Republicanism in America, as I have made clear numerous times.

Evangelicalism is to Christianity what Islamism (or conservative Islam, the dominant position in the Muslim world today) is to Islam. Evangelicalism is the plurality of the Christian population in America, and a core of the Christian-Muslim Brotherhood.

1: "Conservative Islam" doesn't exist.
2: Islamism is intertwining Al-Islam into politics, which is a good part of what the religion teaches.

Conservative Islam, today, is Islamism. And if Islamism is Islam, then we've got a huge problem, as Islam appears to be in fundamental violation of the European Convention on Human Rights, as the European Court of Human Rights has ruled. Fortunately, that's not true.

[Diopolis]

Well, when will the thread settle down into a sort of truce where the deeply committed to secularism crowd leaves us the heck alone so we can have some actual discussions?

[Kubumba Tribe]

Muslim Brotherhood: Formed in 1928 in Egypt, the Muslim Brotherhood is both a religious and a political organization. A Pan-Islamic group, they were founded originally on the principles of bringing Islam to every country in the world while also combining charity work. However, they have come under fire for being involved with Saudi Arabia and terrorist activities. While they are right-wing and anti-communist, and they claim to want democracy, nobody is quite sure how much they are willing to stand behind democracy. Just recently, however, they have started to come to the mainstream as the heads of the Egyptian government.

1: Do they still work with Saudi?
2: Do they still do terrorist attacks? If not, when was the last attack committed? Did the Muslim Brotherhood claim responsibility or was it a copycat attack? Or was it a false flag?

[Thermodolia]

Well, when will the thread settle down into a sort of truce where the deeply committed to secularism crowd leaves us the heck alone so we can have some actual discussions?

We aren’t going anywhere

[Alvecia]

Well, when will the thread settle down into a sort of truce where the deeply committed to secularism crowd leaves us the heck alone so we can have some actual discussions?

Soooo, not a discussion, but an echo chamber?

[Luminesa]

Muslim Brotherhood: Formed in 1928 in Egypt, the Muslim Brotherhood is both a religious and a political organization. A Pan-Islamic group, they were founded originally on the principles of bringing Islam to every country in the world while also combining charity work. However, they have come under fire for being involved with Saudi Arabia and terrorist activities. While they are right-wing and anti-communist, and they claim to want democracy, nobody is quite sure how much they are willing to stand behind democracy. Just recently, however, they have started to come to the mainstream as the heads of the Egyptian government.

1: Do they still work with Saudi?
2: Do they still do terrorist attacks? If not, when was the last attack committed? Did the Muslim Brotherhood claim responsibility or was it a copycat attack? Or was it a false flag?

1: Yes.
2: I have no idea. I can look this up later, but I’m interested as to why you’re suddenly jumping to the defense of the Muslim Brotherhood.

[Internationalist Bastard]

That’s my secret Therm
I hate every country

Do you hate Libya under Gaddafi?

Its a country

[Luminesa]

It's an entire political affiliation. And Trump pretends to be religious, but Evangelicals actually vote for him, do they not?

Evangelicals voting for someone doesn’t make that someone religious. Trump only pays lip service to those crazies, which honestly isn’t that hard to do.

Well, the issues of the nativity scene, the religious figures in court and all that are soon to be hot topics with the new Supreme Court, I'm sure.

I doubt it.

Let's wait and see. But as I've already said, how could the nation of all that I have listed be secular? It can't. It's like saying Russia is secular.

Because maybe you are just focusing on the states of the former CSA as the whole of the US?

Fake secular. So... not really.

No true Scotsman.

What would they think, I wonder?

Probably spinning in their grave over a few things.

Yes, and? The Democrats were also the party of the South before civil rights and the Southern Strategy. And?

And before that time the republicans where the secular liberal party of the nation. The democrats and the republicans flipped

But Therm, if he didn’t have “No True Scotsman”, he’d have to actually read about the spectrum of the right wing in the United States! Goodness, that would mean I’m NOT a terrorist!

[Tarsonis]

Well, when will the thread settle down into a sort of truce where the deeply committed to secularism crowd leaves us the heck alone so we can have some actual discussions?

There are no safe spaces on NSG.

[Olerand]

As always, I ask, what is the difference between the American right and the Muslim Brotherhood?

American Right: While the modern right-wing of the United States has taken a while to form, the formation of the current Republican Party can be traced back to the Civil War. While conservatism has flipped and turned a lot in the last couple hundred years, most recently the right-wing is thought of in terms of the “religious right”, a term developed during Ronald Reagan’s presidency. However, the American Right can include everything from centrists, to your average conservative, to traditionalists, to paleoconservatives, to Libertarians, to those who genuinely can be considered “far-right”. One can be considered “economically right-wing” while also being “socially-left wing” (think the Kohn Brothers). One can also be the other way around.

Muslim Brotherhood: Formed in 1928 in Egypt, the Muslim Brotherhood is both a religious and a political organization. A Pan-Islamic group, they were founded originally on the principles of bringing Islam to every country in the world while also combining charity work. However, they have come under fire for being involved with Saudi Arabia and terrorist activities. While they are right-wing and anti-communist, and they claim to want democracy, nobody is quite sure how much they are willing to stand behind democracy. Just recently, however, they have started to come to the mainstream as the heads of the Egyptian government.

I mean, listen, Olerand. We know that the moment the words “right” and “wing” are spoken in the same sentence, right next to each other, your mind seems to flash to a hundred-thousand Germans marching in the streets while Hitler’s screams “Heil heil!” and Erika plays in the background. You seem to think that Lindsey Graham and Mitt Romney, and even the average joe who doesn’t walk around all day thinking about how they are going to terrorize you, are going to start rounding-up non-Republicans and shooting them in the streets. Am I wrong?

However, sophomoric condescension, mixed with this phobia of anyone or anything remotely right-wing, really doesn’t make your posts about ‘Christian-Muslim Brotherhood’ people look rational or based in history. In fact, it really just makes it look like you searched all of Wikipedia looking for the first organization with ‘right-wing’ under its name, and after you were filled with existential terror, you decided that this, THIS is the identity of EVERY right-wing person in the United States. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE.

Here’s a suggestion. First of all, maybe try to talk to individual people who identify as right-wing. And not just on the Internet. Maybe a random American who has some right-wing views. And maybe, without panicking or huffing your chest, you could listen to what they believe, and you will find there is a lot of variety among right-wingers, just as there are among left-wingers. Second, I offered you some facts and a slight bit of history. Maybe you could look-up facts and history, but then again you’ll probably also cherrypick individual events and say, “B-But they’re the Muslim Brotherhood! Really! REALLY!”

I'm cognizant of the history of both parties, thanks.

I don't know what Erika is, and I have never compared Republicans to Nazis, only to the Muslim Brotherhood with whom they share so many positions.

I have no phobia of the right. I have complete acceptance of the vast majority of the right in Europe, as Aellex shows. He is of the right in France, and I have no qualms with that. Hell, I don't really mind FN voters anymore, not like I mind Muslim Brothers or Republicans.

And I know the comparison is right because I have had experiences with right-wing Americans. By and large, they were eye-opening, and as unpleasant as my previous experiences with Islamists have been. I've been both to American red States and to Muslim countries. I've made the comparisons for myself. Now, answer me this, can you say the same? And can you name me the glaring differences between the Republicans and the MB?

It's an entire political affiliation. And Trump pretends to be religious, but Evangelicals actually vote for him, do they not?

Evangelicals voting for someone doesn’t make that someone religious. Trump only pays lip service to those crazies, which honestly isn’t that hard to do.

Well, the issues of the nativity scene, the religious figures in court and all that are soon to be hot topics with the new Supreme Court, I'm sure.

I doubt it.

Let's wait and see. But as I've already said, how could the nation of all that I have listed be secular? It can't. It's like saying Russia is secular.

Because maybe you are just focusing on the states of the former CSA as the whole of the US?

Fake secular. So... not really.

No true Scotsman.

What would they think, I wonder?

Probably spinning in their grave over a few things.

Yes, and? The Democrats were also the party of the South before civil rights and the Southern Strategy. And?

And before that time the republicans where the secular liberal party of the nation. The democrats and the republicans flipped

And so he pays lip service. No secular country would have such a leader.

I don't. Time will tell.

No, I'm focusing on a political affiliation, as I have said numerous, countless times.

No, fake secularism in a country that is anything but.

Probably.

Sure. And?

[Internationalist Bastard]

Well, when will the thread settle down into a sort of truce where the deeply committed to secularism crowd leaves us the heck alone so we can have some actual discussions?

When NSG stops being a place where people with different views argue them

[Kubumba Tribe]

No. Non-Muslims can hold certain positions in an Islamic government.

Ew.

AlHamdulillah.

What? Idk what part of my post you're responding to. And next time, can you split my posts up when you're responding to a certain part of my post? It's a little confusing for me to understand what you're responding to.

Which is why non-religious people need to ensure theocracies never come into being.

Why shouldn't non-Muslims be able to have a say in their country?

I respond to your points in order, when they are addressing mine. I will try to split them up. And I am referring to Republicanism in America, as I have made clear numerous times.

Ok, thx.

if Islamism is Islam

There is no "if". It is.

then we've got a huge problem, as Islam appears to be in fundamental violation of the European Convention on Human Rights, as the European Court of Human Rights has ruled. Fortunately, that's not true.

I don't really care if it is or isn't.

[Kubumba Tribe]

1: Do they still work with Saudi?
2: Do they still do terrorist attacks? If not, when was the last attack committed? Did the Muslim Brotherhood claim responsibility or was it a copycat attack? Or was it a false flag?

1: Yes.
2: I have no idea. I can look this up later, but I’m interested as to why you’re suddenly jumping to the defense of the Muslim Brotherhood.

I'm interested as to why I can't ask simple questions without you making baseless assumptions.

[Olerand]

Muslim Brotherhood: Formed in 1928 in Egypt, the Muslim Brotherhood is both a religious and a political organization. A Pan-Islamic group, they were founded originally on the principles of bringing Islam to every country in the world while also combining charity work. However, they have come under fire for being involved with Saudi Arabia and terrorist activities. While they are right-wing and anti-communist, and they claim to want democracy, nobody is quite sure how much they are willing to stand behind democracy. Just recently, however, they have started to come to the mainstream as the heads of the Egyptian government.

1: Do they still work with Saudi?
2: Do they still do terrorist attacks? If not, when was the last attack committed? Did the Muslim Brotherhood claim responsibility or was it a copycat attack? Or was it a false flag?

No.
Yes. In Egypt, regularly, against Christians most often.

Well, when will the thread settle down into a sort of truce where the deeply committed to secularism crowd leaves us the heck alone so we can have some actual discussions?

You're welcome to initiate any discussion you would like.

Evangelicals voting for someone doesn’t make that someone religious. Trump only pays lip service to those crazies, which honestly isn’t that hard to do.


I doubt it.


Because maybe you are just focusing on the states of the former CSA as the whole of the US?


No true Scotsman.


Probably spinning in their grave over a few things.


And before that time the republicans where the secular liberal party of the nation. The democrats and the republicans flipped

But Therm, if he didn’t have “No True Scotsman”, he’d have to actually read about the spectrum of the right wing in the United States! Goodness, that would mean I’m NOT a terrorist!

The MB is not inherently made up of terrorists. Hamas is a terrorist organization, the Moroccan and Tunisian MB are not. The Egyptian ones go into and out of terrorism.

I never said the Republicans were terrorists. Though who knows what the future will bring.

[Kubumba Tribe]

Well, when will the thread settle down into a sort of truce where the deeply committed to secularism crowd leaves us the heck alone so we can have some actual discussions?

Low-key this is what I was hoping for. Yeah, what's going on right now is fine, but where are all my theocrat bruvs at?