Theocracy Discussion Thread

[Sahansahiye Iran]

Sure. But unfortunately, the Quran is a book. With words. Words can have different meanings and connotations. That leads to different interpretations. So, the whole "Quran and Sunnah" thing is pretty much horseshit unless you absolutely, positively take every word in the Quran at its absolute face value. And even that's hard to do. As we see with Amin and his "light beating" of wives.

Well, by "beating" your wife/wives there is so many rules to the point that you could replace the word with "light, painless tap" and not change the law. It's the spirit of the law that's more important anyways, following everything to the letter would either make you a fundamentalist or just really weird. There needs to be a balance.

"Balance" Great. But you do realize that is idealistic and naive, yes? The interpretations are still going to differ. You're never going to have the perfect "iSlAmIc" country. Humans are fundamentally flawed. That's why you have people who still advocate for slavery in this day and age *cough*.

[Kubumba Tribe]

Sure. But unfortunately, the Quran is a book. With words. Words can have different meanings and connotations. That leads to different interpretations. So, the whole "Quran and Sunnah" thing is pretty much horseshit unless you absolutely, positively take every word in the Quran at its absolute face value. And even that's hard to do. As we see with Amin and his "light beating" of wives.

Well, by "beating" your wife/wives there is so many rules to the point that you could replace the word with "light, painless tap" and not change the law. It's the spirit of the law that's more important anyways, following everything to the letter would either make you a fundamentalist or just really weird. There needs to be a balance.

Well that what the light beating in Al-Islam is: light, painless tapping.

[Andsed]

Well, by "beating" your wife/wives there is so many rules to the point that you could replace the word with "light, painless tap" and not change the law. It's the spirit of the law that's more important anyways, following everything to the letter would either make you a fundamentalist or just really weird. There needs to be a balance.

Well that what the light beating in Al-Islam is: light, painless tapping.

If Al-Islam really is moral there should be no beating

[Auze]

Well, by "beating" your wife/wives there is so many rules to the point that you could replace the word with "light, painless tap" and not change the law. It's the spirit of the law that's more important anyways, following everything to the letter would either make you a fundamentalist or just really weird. There needs to be a balance.

Well that what the light beating in Al-Islam is: light, painless tapping.

Except that literally no one does that.

[A m e n r i a]

Well, by "beating" your wife/wives there is so many rules to the point that you could replace the word with "light, painless tap" and not change the law. It's the spirit of the law that's more important anyways, following everything to the letter would either make you a fundamentalist or just really weird. There needs to be a balance.

"Balance" Great. But you do realize that is idealistic and naive, yes? The interpretations are still going to differ. You're never going to have the perfect "iSlAmIc" country. Humans are fundamentally flawed. That's why you have people who still advocate for slavery in this day and age *cough*.

Silly bunny, cynicism is for losers!

On a more serious note though, that is idealistic. You need a hell lotta idealism for politics. Ideals are the whole point of politics. The only thing more important than that is the people. If God wanted the emotionless angels to have Earth, He would've given it to them. Instead, He gave it to us. This is why utopia is not only possible, but something we should all strive for as His trusted creation.

Well that what the light beating in Al-Islam is: light, painless tapping.

Except that literally no one does that.

No one but real Muslims.

[Sahansahiye Iran]

Well that what the light beating in Al-Islam is: light, painless tapping.

If Al-Islam really is moral there should be no beating

But how else would the man show that his wife needs to be subservient and absolutely obedient to him?!

[Andsed]

"Balance" Great. But you do realize that is idealistic and naive, yes? The interpretations are still going to differ. You're never going to have the perfect "iSlAmIc" country. Humans are fundamentally flawed. That's why you have people who still advocate for slavery in this day and age *cough*.

Silly bunny, cynicism is for losers!

On a more serious note though, that is idealistic. You need a hell lotta idealism for politics. Ideals are the whole point of politics. The only thing more important than that is the people. If God wanted the emotionless angels to have Earth, He would've given it to them. Instead, He gave it to us. This is why utopia is not only possible, but something we should all strive for as His trusted creation.

Yeah well when you come to reality you see that being super idealistic leads to unrealistic expectations which you don't want world leaders to have for obvious reasons.

[A m e n r i a]

Well that what the light beating in Al-Islam is: light, painless tapping.

If Al-Islam really is moral there should be no beating

Honey, God is the entity that determines morality. How else will you be judged in the afterlife? *anticipates a gambling joke or a joke about the justice system

[Kubumba Tribe]

Well that what the light beating in Al-Islam is: light, painless tapping.

If Al-Islam really is moral there should be no beating

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=441628&p=34992594#p34992594

[Sahansahiye Iran]

"Balance" Great. But you do realize that is idealistic and naive, yes? The interpretations are still going to differ. You're never going to have the perfect "iSlAmIc" country. Humans are fundamentally flawed. That's why you have people who still advocate for slavery in this day and age *cough*.

Silly bunny, cynicism is for losers!

On a more serious note though, that is idealistic. You need a hell lotta idealism for politics. Ideals are the whole point of politics. The only thing more important than that is the people. If God wanted the emotionless angels to have Earth, He would've given it to them. Instead, He gave it to us. This is why utopia is not only possible, but something we should all strive for as His trusted creation.

One man's cynicism is another man's realism.

Sure, strive for your utopia. And deal with it as you strive towards your impossible goal lol. Humanity has existed for literally hundreds of thousands of years. There have been thousands of "utopias". And they've all failed. So, yeah. It's "possible" but so is my dream of a secular, united Greater Iran. But it's pretty fuckin damn sure not gonna happen and it'd be ridiculous for me to actually strive towards. The only way a perfect Caliphate would happen is if Allah himself walked down from his throne in the clouds and told everyone to become Muslim or face his fiery and absolute wrath. Too bad that sure as fuck isn't gonna happen lol.

[Andsed]

If Al-Islam really is moral there should be no beating

Honey, God is the entity that determines morality. How else will you be judged in the afterlife? *anticipates a gambling joke or a joke about the justice system

Uh how is beating someone in anyway moral? I mean seriously folks communication and being kind and treating your spouse like an equal is better than beating them. Also if god if saying beating people is moral and judges you positively for that then his justice system is more corrupt then ours.

[A m e n r i a]

Silly bunny, cynicism is for losers!

On a more serious note though, that is idealistic. You need a hell lotta idealism for politics. Ideals are the whole point of politics. The only thing more important than that is the people. If God wanted the emotionless angels to have Earth, He would've given it to them. Instead, He gave it to us. This is why utopia is not only possible, but something we should all strive for as His trusted creation.

Yeah well when you come to reality you see that being super idealistic leads to unrealistic expectations which you don't want world leaders to have for obvious reasons.

So trying to fulfill real laws and trying to be realistic is unrealistic? What?

[Valgora]

"Balance" Great. But you do realize that is idealistic and naive, yes? The interpretations are still going to differ. You're never going to have the perfect "iSlAmIc" country. Humans are fundamentally flawed. That's why you have people who still advocate for slavery in this day and age *cough*.

Silly bunny, cynicism is for losers!

On a more serious note though, that is idealistic. You need a hell lotta idealism for politics. Ideals are the whole point of politics. The only thing more important than that is the people. If God wanted the emotionless angels to have Earth, He would've given it to them. Instead, He gave it to us. This is why utopia is not only possible, but something we should all strive for as His trusted creation.

Utopia is impossible to achieve.

In order for a religious utopia (the Islamic theocracy Kubumba wants) to even exist, God himself would need to come down from the heavens and personally ensure that all the religious leaders truly follow the religion.

[Kubumba Tribe]

Amenria, you believe that utopia on Earth is possible?

[A m e n r i a]

Silly bunny, cynicism is for losers!

On a more serious note though, that is idealistic. You need a hell lotta idealism for politics. Ideals are the whole point of politics. The only thing more important than that is the people. If God wanted the emotionless angels to have Earth, He would've given it to them. Instead, He gave it to us. This is why utopia is not only possible, but something we should all strive for as His trusted creation.

One man's cynicism is another man's realism.

Sure, strive for your utopia. And deal with it as you strive towards your impossible goal lol. Humanity has existed for literally hundreds of thousands of years. There have been thousands of "utopias". And they've all failed. So, yeah. It's "possible" but so is my dream of a secular, united Greater Iran. But it's pretty fuckin damn sure not gonna happen and it'd be ridiculous for me to actually strive towards. The only way a perfect Caliphate would happen is if Allah himself walked down from his throne in the clouds and told everyone to become Muslim or face his fiery and absolute wrath. Too bad that sure as fuck isn't gonna happen lol.

It wouldn't be exactly like that, but pretty close in Judgement Day, just with someone else coming from the heavens. Hint: the guy who's going to make the world an Islamic utopia will have his birthday soon.

Amenria, you believe that utopia on Earth is possible?

Yup. Whether that happens before Imam Mahdi's emergence or Prophet Jesus' return is still up in the air though.

[Andsed]

Yeah well when you come to reality you see that being super idealistic leads to unrealistic expectations which you don't want world leaders to have for obvious reasons.

So trying to fulfill real laws and trying to be realistic is unrealistic? What?

No but believing you can build a utopia is.

[Kubumba Tribe]

Silly bunny, cynicism is for losers!

On a more serious note though, that is idealistic. You need a hell lotta idealism for politics. Ideals are the whole point of politics. The only thing more important than that is the people. If God wanted the emotionless angels to have Earth, He would've given it to them. Instead, He gave it to us. This is why utopia is not only possible, but something we should all strive for as His trusted creation.

Utopia is impossible to achieve.

In order for a religious utopia (the Islamic theocracy Kubumba wants) to even exist, God himself would need to come down from the heavens and personally ensure that all the religious leaders truly follow the religion.

What makes you think I think a worldly utopia is possible?

[Kubumba Tribe]

One man's cynicism is another man's realism.

Sure, strive for your utopia. And deal with it as you strive towards your impossible goal lol. Humanity has existed for literally hundreds of thousands of years. There have been thousands of "utopias". And they've all failed. So, yeah. It's "possible" but so is my dream of a secular, united Greater Iran. But it's pretty fuckin damn sure not gonna happen and it'd be ridiculous for me to actually strive towards. The only way a perfect Caliphate would happen is if Allah himself walked down from his throne in the clouds and told everyone to become Muslim or face his fiery and absolute wrath. Too bad that sure as fuck isn't gonna happen lol.

It wouldn't be exactly like that, but pretty close in Judgement Day, just with someone else coming from the heavens. Hint: the guy who's going to make the world an Islamic utopia will have his birthday soon.

?

[Valgora]

Utopia is impossible to achieve.

In order for a religious utopia (the Islamic theocracy Kubumba wants) to even exist, God himself would need to come down from the heavens and personally ensure that all the religious leaders truly follow the religion.

What makes you think I think a worldly utopia is possible?

Based off of your idea about Islamic theocracy and refusal to see just how impossible it is for it to exist.

[Sahansahiye Iran]

One man's cynicism is another man's realism.

Sure, strive for your utopia. And deal with it as you strive towards your impossible goal lol. Humanity has existed for literally hundreds of thousands of years. There have been thousands of "utopias". And they've all failed. So, yeah. It's "possible" but so is my dream of a secular, united Greater Iran. But it's pretty fuckin damn sure not gonna happen and it'd be ridiculous for me to actually strive towards. The only way a perfect Caliphate would happen is if Allah himself walked down from his throne in the clouds and told everyone to become Muslim or face his fiery and absolute wrath. Too bad that sure as fuck isn't gonna happen lol.

It wouldn't be exactly like that, but pretty close in Judgement Day, just with someone else coming from the heavens. Hint: the guy who's going to make the world an Islamic utopia will have his birthday soon.

Ya do know that it's pretty much the belief of modern scholars that Jesus wasn't born anywhere near Christmas, right?

[Kubumba Tribe]

What makes you think I think a worldly utopia is possible?

Based off of your idea about Islamic theocracy

I just want it re-establishment.

and refusal to see just how impossible it is for it to exist.

What was the Rashidun?

[A m e n r i a]

It wouldn't be exactly like that, but pretty close in Judgement Day, just with someone else coming from the heavens. Hint: the guy who's going to make the world an Islamic utopia will have his birthday soon.

Ya do know that it's pretty much the belief of modern scholars that Jesus wasn't born anywhere near Christmas, right?

Probably, but it was more or less a lighthearted comment. I can't think of any other hints now that statistics class drained me of my thinking power.

[Sahansahiye Iran]

Based off of your idea about Islamic theocracy

I just want it re-establishment.

and refusal to see just how impossible it is for it to exist.

What was the Rashidun?

The Rashidun fucking burned people alive, dude.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

I just want it re-establishment.

What was the Rashidun?

The Rashidun burned people alive, dude.

1 time, to which a Sahabi (RA) rebuked.

[Sahansahiye Iran]

The Rashidun burned people alive, dude.

1 time, to which a Sahabi (RA) rebuked.

So, they were not a perfect Islamic theocracy? What happened to "rightly guided"?