Theocracy Discussion Thread

[Frievolk]

except it doesn't.

You probably wouldn't want your sister/mother/daughter to be a prostitute in any country because you care about her.


Also it does by saying that women have no sanctity or honour and all that is needed to gain access to their body is pay them.
I claims they can be rented even if consensually.

I also wouldn't want my sister to be a cop, a firefighter, a lawyer, or a number of other professions. How is that relevant?
Or does, in your small, boring world, sex only exist for procreation and anything other than that is dishonorable and unsanctimonious?
Oh wait never mind

[Genivaria]

You probably wouldn't want your sister/mother/daughter to be a prostitute in any country because you care about her.


Also it does by saying that women have no sanctity or honour and all that is needed to gain access to their body is pay them.
I claims they can be rented even if consensually.

I also wouldn't want my sister to be a cop, a firefighter, a lawyer, or a number of other professions. How is that relevant?
Or does, in your small, boring world, sex only exist for procreation and anything other than that is dishonorable and unsanctimonious?
Oh wait never mind

Almost all of the arguments against prostitution I've heard rely on comparing a woman's body to a material good.
The fact that there are male prostitutes never seems to occur to those who use this argument for some reason.

[Kubumba Tribe]

By the way Frievolk why is it bad for Muslims to be against alcohol if they don't ban it for non-Muslims in their own homes?
Surely freedom of thought includes freedom to disapprove of people?
Also do you think prostitution should be legal?

Considering that the thread is about Theocracy I don't believe for a second that non-Muslims would be allowed such.

Islamic Law should not be applied on non-Muslims.

You probably wouldn't want your sister/mother/daughter to be a prostitute in any country because you care about her.


Also it does by saying that women have no sanctity or honour and all that is needed to gain access to their body is pay them.
I claims they can be rented even if consensually.

I don't know what 'sanctity' or 'honor' has to do with having sex.
Or do you think that having sex is somehow immoral?

It can be, depending on when and how it's done.

[Andsed]

Considering that the thread is about Theocracy I don't believe for a second that non-Muslims would be allowed such.

Islamic Law should not be applied on non-Muslims.

I don't know what 'sanctity' or 'honor' has to do with having sex.
Or do you think that having sex is somehow immoral?

It can be, depending on when and how it's done.

Yeah well here is the thing about theocracys they only care about their religion and will base laws off it effectively forcing everyone in the nation to abide by their religion.

[Saranidia]

You probably wouldn't want your sister/mother/daughter to be a prostitute in any country because you care about her.


Also it does by saying that women have no sanctity or honour and all that is needed to gain access to their body is pay them.
I claims they can be rented even if consensually.

I don't know what 'sanctity' or 'honor' has to do with having sex.
Or do you think that having sex is somehow immoral?

Having sex isn't neccesarily amoral but it should not happen if the context does not respect
the honour of both parties

[Genivaria]

I don't know what 'sanctity' or 'honor' has to do with having sex.
Or do you think that having sex is somehow immoral?

Having sex isn't neccesarily amoral but it should not happen if the context does not respect
the honour of both parties

And how does paid sex 'disrespect their honor' ?

[Saranidia]

Having sex isn't neccesarily amoral but it should not happen if the context does not respect
the honour of both parties

And how does paid sex 'disrespect their honor' ?

Because it violates their sense of sanctity and treats them as if they are disposable for a start. I can also cause psychological problems according to some researchers.
This is why even people who want prostitution to be legal typically would not want their sister to be prostitute

[Genivaria]

And how does paid sex 'disrespect their honor' ?

Because it violates their sense of sanctity and treats them as if they are disposable for a start. I can also cause psychological problems according to some researchers.
This is why even people who want prostitution to be legal typically would not want their sister to be prostitute

Because it violates their sense of sanctity and treats them as if they are disposable for a start.

I don't know what the hell 'sanctity' means in this context and how does it treat them as disposable?

I can also cause psychological problems according to some researchers.

So can working as a waiter for several years, it makes you want to come to work with a shotgun.

This is why even people who want prostitution to be legal typically would not want their sister to be prostitute

Entirely irrelevant.

[Saranidia]

Because it violates their sense of sanctity and treats them as if they are disposable for a start. I can also cause psychological problems according to some researchers.
This is why even people who want prostitution to be legal typically would not want their sister to be prostitute

Because it violates their sense of sanctity and treats them as if they are disposable for a start.

I don't know what the hell 'sanctity' means in this context and how does it treat them as disposable?

I can also cause psychological problems according to some researchers.

So can working as a waiter for several years, it makes you want to come to work with a shotgun.

This is why even people who want prostitution to be legal typically would not want their sister to be prostitute

Entirely irrelevant.

1. There can be laws about how waiters are treating including not using one's power to speak to them disrespectfully which can make it less stressful. 2 wrongs don't make a right and are you saying sex that causes psychological problems is ok?
2. It isn't relevant because it suggests it is bad if one would not wish it on those one cares about(EG ones sister) even if one thinks it is ok.

[Genivaria]

I don't know what the hell 'sanctity' means in this context and how does it treat them as disposable?

So can working as a waiter for several years, it makes you want to come to work with a shotgun.

Entirely irrelevant.

1. There can be laws about how waiters are treating including not using one's power to speak to them disrespectfully which can make it less stressful. 2 wrongs don't make a right and are you saying sex that causes psychological problems is ok?
2. It isn't relevant because it suggests it is bad if one would not wish it on those one cares about(EG ones sister) even if one thinks it is ok.

1. And there can be laws protecting prostitutes, so we're right back to them being even.

2 wrongs don't make a right and are you saying sex that causes psychological problems is ok?

Wow what a way to twist my words there, I said that other INDUSTRIES can cause psychological problems so what makes prostitution different?

[Saranidia]

1. There can be laws about how waiters are treating including not using one's power to speak to them disrespectfully which can make it less stressful. 2 wrongs don't make a right and are you saying sex that causes psychological problems is ok?
2. It isn't relevant because it suggests it is bad if one would not wish it on those one cares about(EG ones sister) even if one thinks it is ok.

1. And there can be laws protecting prostitutes, so we're right back to them being even.

2 wrongs don't make a right and are you saying sex that causes psychological problems is ok?

Wow what a way to twist my words there, I said that other INDUSTRIES can cause psychological problems so what makes prostitution different?

1. Laws protecting prostitutes do not eliminate the degrading nature and loopholes will be exploited as a pimp is not realistically going to be a person of nobility, honour and taste.

2. prostitution is not just an industry but the direct sale of access to one's body rather than the performance of another task.

[Genivaria]

1. And there can be laws protecting prostitutes, so we're right back to them being even.

Wow what a way to twist my words there, I said that other INDUSTRIES can cause psychological problems so what makes prostitution different?

1. Laws protecting prostitutes do not eliminate the degrading nature and loopholes will be exploited as a pimp is not realistically going to be a person of nobility, honour and taste.

2. prostitution is not just an industry but the direct sale of access to one's body rather than the performance of another task.

1. It is no more degradation to prostitution then there is to doing dishes, actually talk to a prostitute sometime instead of thinking you need to 'save' them.
And who said anything about pimps? Legalizing and regulating the sex trade would do away with pimps and make all prostitutes paid, protected, and free workers who can leave whenever they want.

2. prostitution is not just an industry but the direct sale of access to one's body rather than the performance of another task.

It is the selling of a service that they provide, in the same way manual labor is a service.
And I can tell you right now that prostitutes make far more money than I ever did doing manual labor.

[Saranidia]

1. Laws protecting prostitutes do not eliminate the degrading nature and loopholes will be exploited as a pimp is not realistically going to be a person of nobility, honour and taste.

2. prostitution is not just an industry but the direct sale of access to one's body rather than the performance of another task.

1. It is no more degradation to prostitution then there is to doing dishes, actually talk to a prostitute sometime instead of thinking you need to 'save' them.
And who said anything about pimps? Legalizing and regulating the sex trade would do away with pimps and make all prostitutes paid, protected, and free workers who can leave whenever they want.

2. prostitution is not just an industry but the direct sale of access to one's body rather than the performance of another task.

It is the selling of a service that they provide, in the same way manual labor is a service.
And I can tell you right now that prostitutes make far more money than I ever did doing manual labor.

I was listening to this documentary on BBC radio 4 and legal "prostitutes" in the Nederlands often felt forced into it by circumstances and traumatised. A woman interviewed a number of them. Also I perhaps don't need to save them all some of them might be at fault themselves.
Also the difference is with manual labour people are paid to manipulate matter not for access to their bodies.
furthermore human trafficking elements of the trade in women(and some men) could be prevented with no parole and frequent executions for those who do it.

People exploiting consensual prostitution of others would get 22-30 years instead.

[Genivaria]

1. It is no more degradation to prostitution then there is to doing dishes, actually talk to a prostitute sometime instead of thinking you need to 'save' them.
And who said anything about pimps? Legalizing and regulating the sex trade would do away with pimps and make all prostitutes paid, protected, and free workers who can leave whenever they want.

It is the selling of a service that they provide, in the same way manual labor is a service.
And I can tell you right now that prostitutes make far more money than I ever did doing manual labor.

I was listening to this documentary on BBC radio 4 and legal prostitutes in the Nederlands often felt forced into it by circumstances and traumatised. A woman interviewed a number of them.

And you think this convinces me hearing about it 3rd hand with no source?

[Publica]

Negative consequnce of not charging interest? None. Negative consequence of banning people from charging interest? No one gives loans. Interest is the motivation for banks to give out money, that they might not get back. Why else are they going to do it?

I detest theocracy in theory and in practise, but the prohibition on interest is something I've been warming to ever since the bailouts, and I realised how much risk (and more so, fragility) the government-backed "financial industry" externalizes onto the people.

Mohammed was a merchant before he entered the government business, and a free market fanatic even by modern American standards ("prices rise and fall in accordance with the will of God"), but he drew the line at state-subsidised usury.

If you're an entrepreneur in need of capital, find investors willing to take shares, was his system. If you can't find investors, your business probably sucks. Yes, Arabia and East Africa were doing the whole share-market thing a millennium before the West.

If you have capital to invest, find a business to take a share in (risks as well as rewards). If you're not willing to wear some of the risks, you don't deserve the rewards.

Either way, don't come howling to the government asking for a taxpayer-funded service, be it a bailout after a popular loss of confidence, or state-violence-backed enforcement on a compound-interest scam gone wrong.

Interest-bearing financial instruments make money and pay taxes in the short term, but the medium-term costs in enforcement costs, economic instability and political instability are not worth it (similiar to gambling and pyramid selling schemes). The only reason usury was legalised in early modern Europe (and its imitators since) is a combination of lack of foresight with massive political corruption.

My apologies for the slightly late reply, but I haven't checked the forums in a couple days.

By banning interest, we're not talking about the government, the government barely charges it. We're talking about banning banks from charging interests on loans. Not just to businesses, which , as you say, can make capital in other ways, but also to people. So no more mortgages. No more loans for hospital bills. It gets worse from there. You are welcome to argue that interest should be banned, but everyone who wants to buy a house isn't going to than you for it.

[The Greater Ohio Valley]

Also, Islamic countries don't exist.

They very much do exist, regardless how much you try to pretend otherwise.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Also, Islamic countries don't exist.

They very much do exist, regardless how much you try to pretend otherwise.

inb4 "They're not Islamic"

[Gran Virginia]

The purpose of the separation of Church and State is the protection of the church from the state, not the other way around. History has shown time and again that when church and state mix, the church suffers for it due to the nature of politics.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Also, Islamic countries don't exist.

They very much do exist, regardless how much you try to pretend otherwise.

Muslim-majority countries that are astray from the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah are not Islamic.

[Genivaria]

They very much do exist, regardless how much you try to pretend otherwise.

inb4 "They're not Islamic"

They very much do exist, regardless how much you try to pretend otherwise.

Muslim-majority countries that are astray from the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah are not Islamic.

Well done Pret.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

inb4 "They're not Islamic"

Muslim-majority countries that are astray from the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah are not Islamic.

Well done Pret.

[United States of Oceania]

They very much do exist, regardless how much you try to pretend otherwise.

inb4 "They're not Islamic"

Calling current Muslim-majoriry countries "Islamic" is nonsense just like calling the Soviet Union a "Christian" country just because the majority of Soviet people were Christians.

[The Greater Ohio Valley]

inb4 "They're not Islamic"

Calling current Muslim-majoriry countries "Islamic" is nonsense just like calling the Soviet Union a "Christian" country just because the majority of Soviet people were Christians.

If you had clicked the link, you would have seen the listed nations are ruled by Islamic laws and therefore are Islamic countries.

[United States of Oceania]

Calling current Muslim-majoriry countries "Islamic" is nonsense just like calling the Soviet Union a "Christian" country just because the majority of Soviet people were Christians.

If you had clicked the link, you would have seen the listed nations are ruled by Islamic laws and therefore are Islamic countries.

There's no such thing as a "republic" in Islam and the link is just a list of countries that are called Islamic Republic, but doesn't demonstrate they are ruled by Islamic law.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

inb4 "They're not Islamic"

Calling current Muslim-majoriry countries "Islamic" is nonsense just like calling the Soviet Union a "Christian" country just because the majority of Soviet people were Christians.

Unlike the Soviet Union, Islamic countries enforce laws that are beyond all doubt Islamic in nature.

They very much do exist, regardless how much you try to pretend otherwise.

Muslim-majority countries that are astray from the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah are not Islamic.

What you have here is the "only sane man" mentality. It is nothing but willful ignorance.

Well done Pret.

We all knew exactly what you would say, because you're a broken record. Any time there is a fact that contradicts your worldview, you invariably decry it as "not Al-Islam" regardless of if it is or not.