Theocracy Discussion Thread

[El-Amin Caliphate]

What about it?

We can talk about that too, but that'd be a different topic from the topic I'm talking about. It'd also be a pretty short discussion.

You literally just said that an Islamic theocracy wouldn't persecute nonbelievers. Without getting into terrorists, I brought up examples of Islamic Theocracies that do persecute non-Muslims.

Which ones? And like I said, this is a different topic from the topic I was trying to get at.

[Crysuko]

You literally just said that an Islamic theocracy wouldn't persecute nonbelievers. Without getting into terrorists, I brought up examples of Islamic Theocracies that do persecute non-Muslims.

Which ones? And like I said, this is a different topic from the topic I was trying to get at.

I need only point at the present day Middle East.

[Kowani]

You literally just said that an Islamic theocracy wouldn't persecute nonbelievers. Without getting into terrorists, I brought up examples of Islamic Theocracies that do persecute non-Muslims.

Which ones? And like I said, this is a different topic from the topic I was trying to get at.

https://www.loc.gov/law/help/apostasy/index.php

Red countries have the death penalty for atheism.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Which ones? And like I said, this is a different topic from the topic I was trying to get at.

I need only point at the present day Middle East.

Which ones? And like I said, this is a different topic from the topic I was trying to get at.

https://www.loc.gov/law/help/apostasy/index.php

Red countries have the death penalty for atheism.

Like I said, y'all are getting at a different topic from the topic I wanted to talk about.

[Crysuko]

I need only point at the present day Middle East.

https://www.loc.gov/law/help/apostasy/index.php

Red countries have the death penalty for atheism.

Like I said, y'all are getting at a different topic from the topic I wanted to talk about.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Like I said, y'all are getting at a different topic from the topic I wanted to talk about.

No that's not what I'm doing.

[Crysuko]

No that's not what I'm doing.

You asked in which countries there is persecution for being atheist. Examples were given. And now it's suddenly not relevant?

[The Batorys]

Would you want to be governed by a theocracy who worshiped a god that was not yours?

As long as I have my rights to practice Al-Islam, sure.

And if you have to obey their religion's laws as well? How would you feel about that? Because that is the reality of a typical theocracy.

[The Batorys]

Yup. Just like all religions, you give us too much power we’ll abuse the hell out of it

That's not the religion's fault usually.

Power corrupts.

If you want your religion to stay pure and good, you should not want it touching politics.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

No that's not what I'm doing.

You asked in which countries there is persecution for being atheist. Examples were given. And now it's suddenly not relevant?

Yeah but I was still trying to get at something else. Something that I brought up before that was brought up.

[The Batorys]

Why in God's name would anyone want to force monks to have political power?

People do a lot of things that don't make much sense. Like argue in favor of theocracy.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

As long as I have my rights to practice Al-Islam, sure.

And if you have to obey their religion's laws as well? How would you feel about that? Because that is the reality of a typical theocracy.

Wouldn't Islamic theocracies be typical as well?

[Kaggeceria]

Theocracy is terrible.

[Crysuko]

You asked in which countries there is persecution for being atheist. Examples were given. And now it's suddenly not relevant?

Yeah but I was still trying to get at something else. Something that I brought up before that was brought up.

You've mentioned this "something else" several times now but haven't specified what it actually is

[The Batorys]

No, it’s the fact that your giving a group of people incredible power than backing up the right to that power through invisible threads of spirituality

Depends on the religion.

It really doesn't. When you fuse religion and politics, it's bad for both. The usual nastiness of politics inevitably creeps into the religion just as surely as the religion dictates the politics.

For example, although it may seem like this is a bad time for the Catholic Church, as an organization it is by far less corrupt now than when it wielded true political power.

[The Batorys]

"Tengri Buddhism."

That sounds... contradictory.

Obviously the solution is to burn you at the stake for believing in a Creator God.

Nae, treat me properly
Wrap me in a rug and trample me with horses

As is proper and traditional.

...how is the rug chosen?

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Yeah but I was still trying to get at something else. Something that I brought up before that was brought up.

You've mentioned this "something else" several times now but haven't specified what it actually is

Idk about the Christian ones, but you actually wouldn't be persecuted in an Islamic theocracy. Al-Islam supports freedom of religion.

I wanted to talk about theocracy according to Al-Islam. Or we could talk about that Democratic Theocracy that I brought up to you.

[The Batorys]

Depends on what is meant by theocracy.

Here is my preferred definition, based on Christianity. Theocracy is rule by religion, which can imply the Patriarch/pope ruling over saecular authorities, or not having any saecular authorities, and instead having the Church (Patriarch/pope) and his clergy constitute the sole authority of a state.
As such, I strongly disagree with theocracy.

I believe in the Byzantine symphonia, where Church and State are separate, but equal corresponding entities, with the Church being a society’s sole spiritual authority and the State being a society’s sole saecular authority.

If people consider symphonia to be a form of theocracy, then yes, I agree with theocracy. But if applying the first definition, then no.

What if the religion involved in this model wasn't yours, but someone else's?

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Depends on the religion.

It really doesn't. When you fuse religion and politics, it's bad for both. The usual nastiness of politics inevitably creeps into the religion just as surely as the religion dictates the politics.

Some religions already have political aspects about them.

[The Batorys]

Catholic? Protestant? Sunni? Shia? Take your pick, I would have been burned or worse in any one of them.

Idk about the Christian ones, but you actually wouldn't be persecuted in an Islamic theocracy. Al-Islam supports freedom of religion.

Also, there's this theocracy I made up before I became an Islamist: https://www.nationstates.net/nation=el- ... /id=677140

Isn't there the death penalty for leaving the religion, though?

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Theocracy is terrible.

Which one(s)?

[Kaggeceria]

Theocracy is terrible.

Which one(s)?

All of them.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Idk about the Christian ones, but you actually wouldn't be persecuted in an Islamic theocracy. Al-Islam supports freedom of religion.

Also, there's this theocracy I made up before I became an Islamist: https://www.nationstates.net/nation=el- ... /id=677140

Isn't there the death penalty for leaving the religion, though?

There's difference of opinion. The majority is yes, but some Muslims believe there isn't (like me)

[Kowani]

Theocracy is terrible.

Which one(s)?

All of them!

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Which one(s)?

All of them.

Are you recognising the differences while saying this?