Theocracy Discussion Thread

[The Batorys]

So how do you pick Hadith?

By their authenticity.

What if people disagree about their authenticity?

[The Batorys]

What if you're an atheist?

There are a number of atheistic religions for the irreligious to choose from.

What if they don't want to be part of a religion?

[The Batorys]

Or we could just have one uniform set of law for everyone and not have the ridiculously complicated system you propose.

And what happens if you're an atheist and openly mock Islam?

You'd probs be told to have some respect.

What if I don't want to?

[The Batorys]

Yup. Same goes for other religious and irreligious groups.

So is my right to worshiping the pagan god Tengri preserved? Or do I fall under Buddhism?

Surely under this system you should get a Tengrist court?

But that also begs the question, what if your religion is so small that there aren't enough jurists of it to staff the courts?

[The Batorys]

So if your theocracy is created to respect other faiths, why not just have separate courts for each sect?

Because:
1: Sects are haram in Al-Islam and we are supposed to enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong
2: That's confusing as heck.

And yet there are many sects of Islam. Each claiming to be the true Islam.

Just as with Christianity.

[The Batorys]

If you commit a crime, you're to be cut in half and one half tried in each court.

I love it when two men split me in half

This forum needs a perv eyebrows smiley.

[The Batorys]

It’s almost like the system was directly engineered to make rape hard to report or prove.

That's debt, not rape.

Still would like to know how is syncretics will be handled in theocracy

Sure
Say a....Hindu commits a crime against another Hindu. Assuming their holy text has it's own laws, they'd go to a Hindu court and seek justice. If the Hindu that committed the crime is found guilty, they are subject to Hindu punishment. But if the Hindu text(s?) does not has its own laws, they'd go to a secular court.

Now, if a Hindu committed a crime against a....Chrstian, a similar thing would happen: they go to a inter-religious court (something I shoulda said earlier). If the Hindu is found guilty, they'd punished according to Hindu law, or secular law if the Hindu text(s?) don't have their own laws.

I don't think you know what syncretic means.

[The Batorys]

http://www.dar-alifta.org/Foreign/ViewF ... px?ID=6033

It's very weird. So, if the man intimidates his wife into being compliant, and he doesn't leave marks on her body or cause her physical pain... Then it's not marital rape...?

Yeah that's bullshit.

Yes. As long as you don't do anal or have sex while she's on her period then she cannot be raped. She must always provide her husband with sex whenever he wants.

Wait, is all period sex prohibited?

[The Batorys]

Theocracies rock!

Okay, Mr. Summertime Noposts.

[The Batorys]

Well, I don't know how much ground you guys will gain, especially if you constantly repeat "But she can't refuse."

Honestly, I think we should discuss about other properties of Theocracy, rather that you know, simply islam. Like, why not have a theocratic federation, Kinda like the relationship that the vatican had with the christian kingdoms during the middle ages?

Because that worked out so well.

[The Batorys]

When the church was highly corrupt and used as a political bludgeon?

It's still corrupt to this day.

Honestly the Catholic Church needs to he disbanded tbh.

Protestant Reformation 2.0

The most awful sects of Christianity came out of the reformation.

[The Batorys]

I do not trust organized religion, for it will ALWAYS grow corrupt and stray from the true values of God.

A Church with no political power is a Church kept in check.

A Church with no political power is not a church at all.

Political power ruins religion. It poisons faith by causing spiritual leaders to make decisions for worldly rather than spiritual reasons.

[The Batorys]

Not when you're trying to force us all to abide by your particular invisible sky daddy's rules.

Well I don't believe in a sky daddy so you're ok.
But even if I did, I'd still deserve respect.

"Invisible sky daddy" = your god

[Publica]

A Church with no political power is not a church at all.

Political power ruins religion. It poisons faith by causing spiritual leaders to make decisions for worldly rather than spiritual reasons.

I think Tarsonis' point is that churches have political power inherently, simply via their being organizations.

Also, can you please stop flooding the thread?

[The Batorys]

I can't think of anything lower than the WBC, really.

They're chilling in that cesspool right alongside ISIS.

I can. Easily. I disagree with pretty much everything they stand for, but they protest peacefully.

Yep, they've never stopped existing.

I suspect IB is talking about the Order of Assassins that went extinct in the 13th century. The one Assassin's Creed is based on?

They're no longer active assassins, but their sect is still very much alive.

[The Batorys]

Political power ruins religion. It poisons faith by causing spiritual leaders to make decisions for worldly rather than spiritual reasons.

I think Tarsonis' point is that churches have political power inherently, simply via their being organizations.

Also, can you please stop flooding the thread?

Just catching up with what's been posted.

[Publica]

I can. Easily. I disagree with pretty much everything they stand for, but they protest peacefully.


I suspect IB is talking about the Order of Assassins that went extinct in the 13th century. The one Assassin's Creed is based on?

They're no longer active assassins, but their sect is still very much alive.

The Order disbanded after the Mongols took Alamut in 1275, to the best of my knowledge, if you can provide a source that shows they still exist, I'd welcome it. This is probably getting a bit beyond the scope of this thread however.

Just catching up with what's been posted.

Then don't reply to stuff from 20 pages ago.

[Minzerland II]

A Church with no political power is not a church at all.

Political power ruins religion. It poisons faith by causing spiritual leaders to make decisions for worldly rather than spiritual reasons.

But refusing to play any role in politics whatsoever leads people from outside interfering anyway.

[The Batorys]

They're no longer active assassins, but their sect is still very much alive.

The Order disbanded after the Mongols took Alamut in 1275, to the best of my knowledge, if you can provide a source that shows they still exist, I'd welcome it. This is probably getting a bit beyond the scope of this thread however.

Just catching up with what's been posted.

Then don't reply to stuff from 20 pages ago.

Why shouldn't I?

Also, the military arm of the sect may be no more, but the sect itself never stopped existing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nizari

[Publica]

The Order disbanded after the Mongols took Alamut in 1275, to the best of my knowledge, if you can provide a source that shows they still exist, I'd welcome it. This is probably getting a bit beyond the scope of this thread however.



Then don't reply to stuff from 20 pages ago.

Why shouldn't I?

Also, the military arm of the sect may be no more, but the sect itself never stopped existing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nizari

Most people won't remember it, and it gets irritating, especially if you're commenting on points that have already been addressed.

Hashashin was a slur used to describe the fidai followers of Hassan-e Sabbah though, because people believed they consumed hash (or possibly it has to do with how Hassan-e referred to them, or even his name, no one is quite sure it seems) not the sect as a whole, unless, again, I missed something.

[The Batorys]

Why shouldn't I?

Also, the military arm of the sect may be no more, but the sect itself never stopped existing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nizari

Most people won't remember it, and it gets irritating, especially if you're commenting on points that have already been addressed.

Hashashin was a slur used to describe the fidai followers of Hassan-e Sabbah though, because people believed they consumed hash (or possibly it has to do with how Hassan-e referred to them, or even his name, no one is quite sure it seems) not the sect as a whole, unless, again, I missed something.

An earlier poster noted that they were that particular sect of Muslim. I think that's what you missed. I don't think that they meant they were literally a fidai.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

In terms of Al-Islam, no sects, just the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah (last part would probs be difficult because there's Sunni and Shi'a aHadith).

There are literally dozens of sects of Islam.

I know.

By their authenticity.

What if people disagree about their authenticity?

That's why you have investigations the find out their authenticity.

So is my right to worshiping the pagan god Tengri preserved? Or do I fall under Buddhism?

Surely under this system you should get a Tengrist court?

But that also begs the question, what if your religion is so small that there aren't enough jurists of it to staff the courts?

That's a good question. I guess you'd have to follow secular law until the religion gains enough adherents.

Yes. As long as you don't do anal or have sex while she's on her period then she cannot be raped. She must always provide her husband with sex whenever he wants.

Wait, is all period sex prohibited?

Yes.

Well I don't believe in a sky daddy so you're ok.
But even if I did, I'd still deserve respect.

"Invisible sky daddy" = your god

I don't have a god either, so you're still wrong.

[Saiwania]

I've noticed that most people have more devotion or loyalty to religious dogma than for any secular form of government. So I've been thinking, what if the best features of Nazi Germany's tyranny, could be married with laws directly from either the Bible or Qur'an? It'll be wonderful. When I read Exodus or Leviticus, I think- "YES! It has commands that can be made into laws!"

Never mind the fact that much of it can be seen as lame, silly, or stupid by modern sensibilities, the point is that it is supposedly divine. The first rule that could possibly be implemented if you look to the Old Testament for inspiration, is to have a national ban on leavened bread.

It'd perhaps amuse me, if I can get the people to do stuff they don't like such as this fine rule from Leviticus: "Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard."

[El-Amin Caliphate]

I've noticed that most people have more devotion or loyalty to religious dogma than for any secular form of government. So I've been thinking, what if the best features of Nazi Germany's tyranny, could be married with laws directly from either the Bible or Qur'an? It'll be wonderful. When I read Exodus or Leviticus, I think- "YES! It has commands that can be made into laws!"

Never mind the fact that much of it can be seen as lame, silly, or stupid by modern sensibilities, the point is that it is supposedly divine. The first rule that could possibly be implemented if you look to the Old Testament for inspiration, is to have a national ban on leavened bread.

It'd perhaps amuse me, if I can get the people to do stuff they don't like such as this fine rule from Leviticus: "Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard."

This is not why theocrats want a theocracy. And I'm not allying with genocide supporting, Jew-hating racists. They can eff off.

[Greater Cesnica]

I've noticed that most people have more devotion or loyalty to religious dogma than for any secular form of government. So I've been thinking, what if the best features of Nazi Germany's tyranny, could be married with laws directly from either the Bible or Qur'an? It'll be wonderful. When I read Exodus or Leviticus, I think- "YES! It has commands that can be made into laws!"

Never mind the fact that much of it can be seen as lame, silly, or stupid by modern sensibilities, the point is that it is supposedly divine. The first rule that could possibly be implemented if you look to the Old Testament for inspiration, is to have a national ban on leavened bread.

It'd perhaps amuse me, if I can get the people to do stuff they don't like such as this fine rule from Leviticus: "Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard."

This is not why theocrats want a theocracy. And I'm not allying with genocide supporting, Jew-hating racists. They can eff off.

Do non-Muslims and Muslims have equal rights in your theocracy? If they do... Then I can support it. But I don't believe people have equal rights in any form of theocracy.