The Tiananmen Incident: The 30th Anniversary Is Nearing

[Internationalist Bastard]

There’s so many layers of wrong here that I’m just going to say that firing automatic fire into people blocking a road is literally the worst way to stop a protest

It's Infected Mushroom. What do you expect?

There’s a reason I only went with the most basic layer of wrong

[Dahon]

It's Infected Mushroom. What do you expect?

There’s a reason I only went with the most basic layer of wrong

Should've minded the gap.

Btw, did you tell your husband what happened at Tienanmen? If so, how did he react? Just curious.

[Internationalist Bastard]

There’s a reason I only went with the most basic layer of wrong

Should've minded the gap.

Btw, did you tell your husband what happened at Tienanmen? If so, how did he react? Just curious.

He’s always been a democrat so it’s not like it surprised him
It was more like a “oh, well today I learned that was a thing”

[The New California Republic]

Enforcement of law and order =/= running over unarmed civilians with military hardware.

And no, they didn't know the risks. Interviews with the students shows that they were unaware that the tanks were going to start running over them.

they were told to disperse or there would be consequences; there were soldiers in plain sight and martial law had been publicly declared

really, the students shouldn't act so stupid in interviews: "oh we were surrounded by tanks and told to disperse but we didn't reasonably expect the tanks to open fire or do anything to us if we stood our ground"

sounds to me like they were lying or misrepresenting the truth in the interviews, maybe they didn't expect the tanks to run them over specifically, but they should at least have expected them to open fire if they refused to obey

Oh joy, trying to justify massacres...

[Hammer Britannia]

Deployment, maybe.

Killing tens of civilians by running them over? Fuck no

the number of protestors killed is highly disputed

according to google:

"In what became known in the West as the Tiananmen Square Massacre, troops with automatic rifles and tanks fired at the demonstrators trying to block the military's advance towards Tiananmen Square. The number of civilian deaths has been estimated variously from 180 to 10,454."

Please don't make numbers up. "Tens of thousands of civilians" sounds like you're saying 20,000 and up.

In reality, the number is probably much lower than western media traditionally assumes.

Also, take a look at what it says.

The troops opened fire... when the protestors "tried to block the military's advance"... oh the protestors are not so innocent now eh?

1. I said tens, not tens of thousands.

2. Yes, they are innocent. You don't massacre unarmed people, especially while they are protesting against an authoritarian regime. That just makes you look bad.

[Infected Mushroom]

the number of protestors killed is highly disputed

according to google:

"In what became known in the West as the Tiananmen Square Massacre, troops with automatic rifles and tanks fired at the demonstrators trying to block the military's advance towards Tiananmen Square. The number of civilian deaths has been estimated variously from 180 to 10,454."

Please don't make numbers up. "Tens of thousands of civilians" sounds like you're saying 20,000 and up.

In reality, the number is probably much lower than western media traditionally assumes.

Also, take a look at what it says.

The troops opened fire... when the protestors "tried to block the military's advance"... oh the protestors are not so innocent now eh?

1. I said tens, not tens of thousands.

2. Yes, they are innocent. You don't massacre unarmed people, especially while they are protesting against an authoritarian regime. That just makes you look bad.

I don’t agree. The protests posed an existential threat to the territorial integrity of China. Russia lost tons and tons of land because it failed to adopt the Chinese approach.

[United Muscovite Nations]

1. I said tens, not tens of thousands.

2. Yes, they are innocent. You don't massacre unarmed people, especially while they are protesting against an authoritarian regime. That just makes you look bad.

I don’t agree. The protests posed an existential threat to the territorial integrity of China. Russia lost tons and tons of land because it failed to adopt the Chinese approach.

I actually partially agree with you about the protesters posing a threat to the government of China (even though I disagree with the massacre), but this is just bad reasoning. Russia didn't lose any land, the USSR disintegrated into its constituent countries.

[Hammer Britannia]

1. I said tens, not tens of thousands.

2. Yes, they are innocent. You don't massacre unarmed people, especially while they are protesting against an authoritarian regime. That just makes you look bad.

I don’t agree. The protests posed an existential threat to the territorial integrity of China. Russia lost tons and tons of land because it failed to adopt the Chinese approach.

Yeah, they lost land that rightfully belonged to the Ukrainians, Byelorussian, Baltic Peoples, and Turks.

They also got rid of that whole "Authoritarian Socialism" thing, so...

[United Muscovite Nations]

I don’t agree. The protests posed an existential threat to the territorial integrity of China. Russia lost tons and tons of land because it failed to adopt the Chinese approach.

Yeah, they lost land that rightfully belonged to the Ukrainians, Belorussians, Baltic Peoples, and Turks.

They also got rid of that whole "Authoritarian Socialism" thing, so...

And ended up with ten years of economic turmoil that left millions dead.

[Infected Mushroom]

I don’t agree. The protests posed an existential threat to the territorial integrity of China. Russia lost tons and tons of land because it failed to adopt the Chinese approach.

Yeah, they lost land that rightfully belonged to the Ukrainians, Belorussians, Baltic Peoples, and Turks.

They also got rid of that whole "Authoritarian Socialism" thing, so...

And China could lose land that “rightfully belongs” to other ethnic groups

The UK could lose lands that “rightfully belong” to the scots or the Cornish...

The USA does love to promote these kinds of divisions.

No thank you.

[Hammer Britannia]

Yeah, they lost land that rightfully belonged to the Ukrainians, Belorussians, Baltic Peoples, and Turks.

They also got rid of that whole "Authoritarian Socialism" thing, so...

And China could lose land that “rightfully belongs” to other ethnic groups

The UK could lose lands that “rightfully belong” to the scots or the Cornish...

The USA does love to promote these kinds of divisions.

No thank you.

Yes, thank you.

Fuck Imperialism.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Do you guys have any idea how the Soviet collapse worked? The Russians were one of the first republics to declare that they wanted to leave the USSR, because many Russians believed that the USSR was unfair to the Russian Republic because the Russian economy's size was often used to subsidize living outside of Russia.

[Infected Mushroom]

And China could lose land that “rightfully belongs” to other ethnic groups

The UK could lose lands that “rightfully belong” to the scots or the Cornish...

The USA does love to promote these kinds of divisions.

No thank you.

Yes, thank you.

Fuck Imperialism.

I just think that a lot of “pro democracy” arguments here are thinly veiled pro western interested arguments that really only want to weaken China and see it divided

[Internationalist Bastard]

Yes, thank you.

Fuck Imperialism.

I just think that a lot of “pro democracy” arguments here are thinly veiled pro western interested arguments that really only want to weaken China and see it divided

Actually I would love a Democratic federation of China
My problem is specifically with the Chinese government

[Heloin]

Yeah, they lost land that rightfully belonged to the Ukrainians, Belorussians, Baltic Peoples, and Turks.

They also got rid of that whole "Authoritarian Socialism" thing, so...

And China could lose land that “rightfully belongs” to other ethnic groups

The UK could lose lands that “rightfully belong” to the scots or the Cornish...

The USA does love to promote these kinds of divisions.

No thank you.

Free Cornwall! Never surrender! Onen hag oll!

[Infected Mushroom]

I just think that a lot of “pro democracy” arguments here are thinly veiled pro western interested arguments that really only want to weaken China and see it divided

Actually I would love a Democratic federation of China
My problem is specifically with the Chinese government

Democracy really isn’t that great

Promotes divisions and partisan hatred

[Heloin]

Actually I would love a Democratic federation of China
My problem is specifically with the Chinese government

Democracy really isn’t that great

Promotes divisions and partisan hatred

You'd probably not be saying that if you have ever live in a place that isn't a democracy. I can tell you, democracy is pretty great.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Actually I would love a Democratic federation of China
My problem is specifically with the Chinese government

Democracy really isn’t that great

Promotes divisions and partisan hatred

Yes that’s so horrible compared to getting murdered for having a wrong opinion

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

So, the Tiananmen Incident.

It was a shocking incident on June 3-4, 1989, that some leader told China’s soldiers to clear the square. Within hours tanks were approaching, ruthlessly crushing protestors, and soldiers entered, firing at civillians indiscriminately, without a second thought.

Those people...... poor fellas who wanted democracy, their wish shall be fulfilled! Instead of them getting democracy, they got violence. At that time reform was at the speed of light, the economical part, but the political part, not so fast and literally was reforming at the speed of a tortoise.

It lead to bigger crackdowns. Share ya opinions.

It was carried out in the interests of law and order.

As such, I don't object to it.

Whether the protestors knew it or not, they were really pawns of the American Empire.

China could have fallen apart like the Soviet Union, but the authorities did what was necessary to keep it together.

So you're okay with anything as long as it's done in the name of law and order? Using that logic, killing peaceful protesters en masse with tanks is a'okay.

O H W A I T.

[Infected Mushroom]

It was carried out in the interests of law and order.

As such, I don't object to it.

Whether the protestors knew it or not, they were really pawns of the American Empire.

China could have fallen apart like the Soviet Union, but the authorities did what was necessary to keep it together.

So you're okay with anything as long as it's done in the name of law and order? Using that logic, killing peaceful protesters en masse with tanks is a'okay.

O H W A I T.

I don’t believe protests should be legal because they disrupt the economy, can threaten the public safety, and be a threat to a state’s unity and authority.

Using the military to stop protests is acceptable when martial law has been declared and the protestors are given fair warning to disperse.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

So you're okay with anything as long as it's done in the name of law and order? Using that logic, killing peaceful protesters en masse with tanks is a'okay.

O H W A I T.

I don’t believe protests should be legal because they disrupt the economy, can threaten the public safety, and be a threat to a state’s unity and authority.

Using the military to stop protests is acceptable when martial law has been declared and the protestors are given fair warning to disperse.

My dude, they barely disrupt the economy in most cases, peaceful protests are not dangerous, and if the state's authority and unity can't withstand a little peaceful protest, it wasn't worth having.

No military action is acceptable when martial law has been declared because martial law is unacceptable to begin with. No amount of warning excuses violations of rights and unjust action.

[Ethel mermania]

the number of protestors killed is highly disputed

according to google:

"In what became known in the West as the Tiananmen Square Massacre, troops with automatic rifles and tanks fired at the demonstrators trying to block the military's advance towards Tiananmen Square. The number of civilian deaths has been estimated variously from 180 to 10,454."

Please don't make numbers up. "Tens of thousands of civilians" sounds like you're saying 20,000 and up.

In reality, the number is probably much lower than western media traditionally assumes.

Also, take a look at what it says.

The troops opened fire... when the protestors "tried to block the military's advance"... oh the protestors are not so innocent now eh?

1. I said tens, not tens of thousands.

2. Yes, they are innocent. You don't massacre unarmed people, especially while they are protesting against an authoritarian regime. That just makes you look bad.

If you are the regime being protested, you certainly do. They don't care what they look like to the world. It's how they are seen internally that counts.

[Cheristan]

Is this actually a subject of debate? Seems the pawns of the Chinese Communists have spread everywhere.

[Dahon]

Is this actually a subject of debate? Seems the pawns of the Chinese Communists have spread everywhere.

Not so much communism with Chinese characteristics, or even mere communism, as it is authoritarianism in all its peculiar guises -- that's what's spreading everywhere.

[Crazybloxian Empire]

So you're okay with anything as long as it's done in the name of law and order? Using that logic, killing peaceful protesters en masse with tanks is a'okay.

O H W A I T.

I don’t believe protests should be legal because they disrupt the economy, can threaten the public safety, and be a threat to a state’s unity and authority.

Using the military to stop protests is acceptable when martial law has been declared and the protestors are given fair warning to disperse.

Pffft! What gives? That’s a violation of the freedom of assembly. Please, STOP.